RE: Question for "mature buck" advocates
 

Obviously people can shoot what ever their game laws permit them to shoot.Killing small bucks is of no interest to me personally because of experience and my perceived ease of doing so.
While I am happy for anyone who is sincere in their excitement about killing any legal deer,I am not happy with hunters who kill multiple young bucks every year for years on end,especially so in area's where there are tons of doe's.I understand that it is their legal right to do so and my opinion doesn't matter,I just don't understand the point.
I am sure many of you know the type, buck to doe ratio is 5,6,7 to 1 and they are shooting three spike horns,and then bragging about their 3 bucks.Again if the law permits it,it is their right to do so,I just can't relate to it.

RE: Question for "mature buck" advocates
 

The logic is a little messed up. Wars have typically excluded women because they are what is needed to replenish the population, wasn't a macho thing. If people shoot doe's the result will be less deer in the future. A lot of doe's equals a lot less deer. I've never did the math but I'd say each doe equals tens of deer if you count theiroff springs off spring. Could even be in the hundreds.3 small bucks equals 3 small bucks. If I was a meat hunter and could add I wouldn't be shooting my breed stock until it's time to thin them out.

In Ohio's history the population of game decreased quickly and the people tried to do some thing about it. One of the biggest problems in reversing the trend was that the natives kept killing doe's by calling as a distressed fawn in the spring. They were strictly warned to stop the practise.

RE: Question for "mature buck" advocates
 

It's about the challenge of shooting what the individual hunter deems "his" trophy. I will echo others, no one is telling you, that you have to shoot mature deer or a buck that scores xxx. Shoot your trophy, shoot what makes you proud and/or puts meat on your table. We will congratulate you. But in the same breath don't hold it against us because we choose to hunt for different reasons. We bought our tags too!

In my opinion if I was too shoot a deer for meat it would be a young doe. And I'll argue with anyone who says a mature buck (or doe) tastes the same.

But "my truth" is ..if I want good meat, the local grocery store is full of it. Give me a filet mignon over any cut, of any deer..everyday!

So why do I hunt? Easy..I love to hunt, I love to watch animals in thier natural setting. I love nature and being one with it. I love how I can sit on a clear morning and watch the sunrise, and think,how lucky of aman I am to have my wonderful, loving and supportivefamily at home stillsnuggled under their warmcovers. It brings me inner peace, and it brings me closer to God, and it brings me pride in what I have, and what I still plan to accomplish in my life-time.

I carry a bow, because if that majestic buck steps from the fog, with his sapling polished antlers gleaming. My heart gets racing, my instincts kick in and I'm gonna do my best to put his memory on my wall to relive, time and time again.

I love to watch smaller bucks..I've had my days when I shot them with the same pride that you feel. Those days for me, were great. I've moved beyond that, that doesn't mean I'm better than anyone. It means to me, that I've moved past the ending of the hunt being how I gage the success of the hunt. Just being there is what I relish now. I hold out for better bucks..and I have the unused tags to prove it! Don't judge me..I won't judge you. We will both have happy days afield!

RE: Question for "mature buck" advocates
 

hear! hear!, GR8. Well said.

I predict 2008 will be the first year I DON'T shoot a buck. I'm holding out.

RE: Question for "mature buck" advocates
 

Perfectly said .... absolutely perfect! :)

RE: Question for "mature buck" advocates
 

I can tell you this Nodog that not even close to every doe gets bred each fall. The buck/doe ratio is very out of wack through out most of the USA. Your analogy of not taking doe's is messed up, not magicmans way.;) In reality the more bucks that are around the more doe's will get bred!! I seen more doe's this last fall without fawns then I've ever seen before. Thats not good!! Reason being, too many little bucks were shot in place of these doe's. If there was a low deer population, your analogy would then make a little more sense.

RE: Question for "mature buck" advocates
 

I see them in numbers (does without fawns).

RE: Question for "mature buck" advocates
 

i would much rather go empty handed than kill a small buck. If i have no meat in the freezer the last day of season and a 1.5 yr old 8 pt walks by, i still wont have meat for the freezer. (mnbirddog...Have you ever killed a trophy buck??)

RE: Question for "mature buck" advocates
 

That's what would make you happy ........ as soon as he crosses your land and comes withing range of me, however, I'm slicing a 2" gash in his heart and eating his backstraps for din din :D

RE: Question for "mature buck" advocates
 

How ya going to catch a 30" Walleye if every one keeps the 12" fish. Think about it.

RE: Question for "mature buck" advocates
 

For me, and not so unlike most of you, as I get older my intents are different. When I was 12-21 all i cared about was killing deer and the more the merrier. As I aged just shooting deer wasn't as fun so my goals changed. I took up bow hunting and sure my first deer was no monster (small 8pt rack 2.5 year old deer) but my goal was to get a deer and that I did. The past couple of years I was honored to take a couple of deer in that 140-150 range and since then just shooting smaller deer doesn't really do the trick. Dont get me wrong I go out and meat hunt during slug season with my family but I would rather watch family and friends shoot than myself. I bow hunt for trophy deer (trophies to me)and I think over time as you are able to build your resume of deer kills the small one's just aren't quite as memorable as the big one's. Especially if the big one'sare hanging on your wall. You kind of said something yourself that puts you in the trophy state of mind. If there are 2 bucks, you shoot forthe bigger of the two. Bottom line is rack size does matter, but you still cant make very good soup out of them.

RE: Question for "mature buck" advocates
 

The smaller walleyes taste better ;) ...speaking of that, TJ ..... Walleye season is just around the corner!!!:D

I will say this ... when I owned my own property that butted up next to a guy that owned almost 1,000 acres who managed his land, we joined in .... and scored bigger deer than ever .... where I hunt now, there are dozens of huters surrounding the land that will shoot anyhting that come by, so it really is like letting them go so someone else will shoot them...

another thought is deer population ..... there are no where near the amount of deer where I hunt as there are where some of you do ..... I love venison ... I try and put 3 deer in my freezer every year, and it's gone before summer starts

BTW, I am FOR NY increasing the antler restriction like PA did .......

RE: Question for "mature buck" advocates
 

Preach.....you need to come south for a hunt. Come here for a few days and go back home and trophy hunt.;)

Bring a cooler.

Which brings up an interesting question....

For those of you who say you hunt strictly for meat. What if I were to give you (in the preacher's case) 3 deer and fill your freezer.

What would you do, then?

RE: Question for "mature buck" advocates
 

Jeff ... let's make that happen this year .... I got to thinkin .... if I could fill my feezer with doe meat, I wouldn't have ANY problem with letting those 1.5 - 2.5 year old deer walk ....

RE: Question for "mature buck" advocates
 

No promises, Tony.....other than southern hospitality.

Open invitation.;)

(But....just in case....bring a cooler:D)

RE: Question for "mature buck" advocates
 

Do you mean give me 3 deer that you have already shot? If thats what you mean no I wouldn't take it. I enjoy the meat hunting just as much!

RE: Question for "mature buck" advocates
 

Jeff,
There's a partial solution to your dilemma in your other post. You hunt your new land and invite more HNI'ers who can only take one deer to come down and help "manage" your herd at home. Stress test that "southern hospitality".:D

RE: Question for "mature buck" advocates
 

I'm with Schultzy here ... I love killing the deer myself .... I don't want deer others have killed

RE: Question for "mature buck" advocates
 

Let me try to take a crack at this. Hopefully I can effectively verbalize what I am thinking.

Your original question along with the bold part of your quote above suggests that you really are not much different from the "mature buck only" crowd that you are questioning. The only difference is the minimumage of the buck you desire to shoot. Hopefully I can explain it well....

Forgive me if I am wrong, butyou seem to have a desire to shoot a buck rather than a doe. How is that fundamentally different that someone who desires to shoot a mature buck rather than a young buck? Person A prefers any buck versus a doe. Person B prefers a mature buck versus a young buck. The same question that you are asking of Person B could be asked ofYOU by Person C who huntsexclusively for meat.Person Cdoesn't care...not even a little...about antlers or sex or even weight of the animal. Hypothetically,Person C sees all deer equally and valuesthem all equally. Person C could then askYOU (Person A)the same questionYOU are asking Person B. Person C would ask, "Why do you desire to shoot any buck over adoe? And whydo some areas limit my ability to legally kill a doe? I just want to eat venison,so why is my desire to shoot any deerless valid thanother hunters' desire to shoot a buck only or a mature buck only?"

So really, deep down inside, you know the answer to your question. Some peopleshoot mature bucks because it is more satisfyingto them than a young buck. Just as any buck is more satisfying to you than a doe. Forgive me for any false assumptions and for any flawed logic...I just woke up.

RE: Question for "mature buck" advocates
 

I think you expressed that very well! One distinction is no different from another.

RE: Question for "mature buck" advocates
 

But they look silly as hell on the wall dont they!;)

RE: Question for "mature buck" advocates
 

Hunting for mature bucks is like removing the training wheels from your bicycle isn't it? It's a bit more of a challenge. [:-];)

RE: Question for "mature buck" advocates
 

Have you ever filled your buck tag then saw a bigger one while hunting does and wished you could go back in time? I have. NowI try tohold out for what I think mightjust be the biggest one in the area.Every year for the last couple of years I've had to raise the mark based on what I saw the year before and some yearsI go with out a buckbut I'm good with that because when I eat meat I prefer beef. My agenda, my goals, my decision. It's what makes me happy and keeps me in the woods. Ken

RE: Question for "mature buck" advocates
 

What if everyone practiced or was forced to NOT kill anything under 3.5 years old as some have suggested? Would then killing a 4.5 year old 165" deer still be considered a challenge?

I ageee with what most have said..........hunt the way you want and have fun doing it.

RE: Question for "mature buck" advocates
 

I believe it would still be a challenge just because of the bucks wary nature once he reached that age and size.

RE: Question for "mature buck" advocates
 

Gus...

Is it easier to kill a lot of deer ......if you hunt where a lot of deer live?

I can tell you the answer to that question is "YES".

So....wouldn't it stand to reason .......if there were more mature deer (insert name of location, here)......that they would be easier to kill?

Takes NOTHING away from...nor does it even take into account a hunter's prowess. It's simple math.

RE: Question for "mature buck" advocates
 

You know, it's real easy to pass on a bunch of bucks when you have a lot of deer. When you can go out and expect to see deer usually every hunt, it's not real hard to say I'll wait for something bigger. I spent the summer glassing every deer within a 3 mile radius of my house. I saw a big 8, and a 6 and a spike repeatedly during the summer and Sept. That was it. During deer season I saw 1 spike and he wasn't the one I watched all summer. Realize, the big 8 and 6 were always on land adjacent to the land I can hunt. The 8 was killed on that same land. For the entire bow season I saw I guess maybe 6 deer from a tree and 3 during the muzzleloader season. I know of one that was poached in my woods with a rifle. So, tell me I'm suppose to pass a basket rack 6 up here when he walks by at 20 yards. Last year I saw and 8 and a spike. I shot the 8 with the bow. There's lots of pressure from hunters, night hunter and plain old outlaws all year. It's pretty tough to be a trophy hunter in such places. In Maryland I passed on deer all the time with no regrets because it was easy and the population per mile was about 40 more deer. I'd typically see hundreds in the year. I'm looking for a new woods. The last time I was in Ohio I passed on 4 bucks one evening that would have been prizes here.

RE: Question for "mature buck" advocates
 

Not with the bow.

Biggest ML kill

My version of the "Trophy" room

10 Pt slug kill

RE: Question for "mature buck" advocates
 

Nobody's telling you what to do.

IF you want to be a trophy hunter, Rule #1 - Hunt where they live.

RE: Question for "mature buck" advocates
 

More Trophy room and the 8 pt slug kill. Only about half the ones in the shop are mine.

RE: Question for "mature buck" advocates
 

Hey, then why not go back to the recurve. You could then have a then and now colauge.;)

RE: Question for "mature buck" advocates
 

It may be easier than it was before there were more mature bucks, but it's still a challenge, which was the question.

RE: Question for "mature buck" advocates
 

The 8 pt slug kill. Only about half of the ones in the shop are mine.

RE: Question for "mature buck" advocates
 

Of course, Greg.....just less of one. Point conceded.

RE: Question for "mature buck" advocates
 

Bear with me, Im still trying to figure out this picture thing.

RE: Question for "mature buck" advocates
 

I've killed deer with a recurve and plan on doing it more some day. Just don't know when. Besides, all of my mature buck kills have been between 6 and 21 yards. The real challenge is getting close to them (hunting). I do so by learning about them and their habits. I don't think that by me switching to a recurve would have that much of an effect on me killing a mature buck. I like to get real close to them.

RE: Question for "mature buck" advocates
 

Having success hunting whitetails is determined a lot by geography and willingness to wait it out and perhaps eating tag soup. I know that.

My question was more toward the "challenge" aspect that so many seak of while championing the the idea of not shooting young bucks.

If the woods are littered with 4.5 year old deer would it be that difficult to kill one? I see a lot of the same people who are "trophy" hunters also advocate that you "let em go so they can grow". Seems like they are after the horns more than the challenge........

RE: Question for "mature buck" advocates
 

Gus:

I think you're saying what a lotof people think....and don't say.;)

RE: Question for "mature buck" advocates
 

Gus:

I think you're saying what a lot of people think.....but won't say.;)

RE: Question for "mature buck" advocates
 

I see no flaw in that logic. However I grew up hunting in areas whos laws allowed ALL THREE hunters can choose to kill deer they see fit. My point was that many (though it seems not so many as I expect to see on this sight) "trophy hunters" or as I originally said "mature buck advocates" don't want to allow everyone to continue hunting how they want. They want the harvest biased to mature bucks, so I and others like me cant shoot whatever we see fit. Though I may be wrong, I think part of that is so that it is "easier" to shoot big bucks, therefore (imo) making them less like trophies, and more the norm.