What's all the fuss about?? (forgiveness--accuracy--etc)
02-06-2008, 12:57 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 4,668
What's all the fuss about?? (forgiveness--accuracy--etc)
So the weather broke a little the last couple days here in NY and with some recent debates about accuracy and forgivenss and such.........I grabbed the bow, camera and a few arrows and headed out into the yard. I hadn't shot the bow in probably 2 months now and the arrows were a hodge podge of different nocks, tips, and even arrows, one being a Terminator Hunter and the other 2 were Maxima Hunters.......the Terminator being an inch longer and about 50 grains heavier in total weight. All fine arrows with 2" Blazers........Maximas came that way and Terminator I fletched myself.
No warm up.............all shots taken at 25 yards because I figured this was pretty much a safe bet that the vast majority of deer are shot inside this range.
I took 3 shots for each "test" (right handed) and I am not an elite archer by any stretch of the imagination............aiming point was the same throughout.
1st group was a "normal" shot.
2nd group was bow canted about 45-50 degrees to the right.........as much as I could and still see through the peep.
3rd group was choking the grip witha clenched fist all through the shot.
4th group was extreme right to left torque.........I grabbed the grip similar to group 3 and twisted it until my cables were visible outside the peep to the right.....my sight picture was distorted but I could still see my pins.......the arrow was visually angled tip towards the riser before release.
This has NOTHING to do with equipment choice...........I would imagine the results would be similar with any other well tuned bow fit to me.
What I do wonder is why we spend so much time going over form and the minutia of tiny influences such as milliseconds of time an arrow is in contact with a rest or not.........even the slightest amout of torque or grip pressure........sight levels and so on and so on.
This is what I was getting at in an earlier thread titled "How bad are your misses?"...........I just wonder how bad people are missing out there and blaming it on slight torque, their equipment choice, or minor form flaws...........I just don't see it..........I have intentionally introduced extreme levels of "bad form" and have not seen extreme consequences.
Are we over analyzing how much of an effect these things have and/or simply blaming other things for our bad shots and "misses"??..........or are you guys really seeing misses of a foot or more at the slightest deviation from perfect form?
Group 1 (Normal)
No warm up.............all shots taken at 25 yards because I figured this was pretty much a safe bet that the vast majority of deer are shot inside this range.
I took 3 shots for each "test" (right handed) and I am not an elite archer by any stretch of the imagination............aiming point was the same throughout.
1st group was a "normal" shot.
2nd group was bow canted about 45-50 degrees to the right.........as much as I could and still see through the peep.
3rd group was choking the grip witha clenched fist all through the shot.
4th group was extreme right to left torque.........I grabbed the grip similar to group 3 and twisted it until my cables were visible outside the peep to the right.....my sight picture was distorted but I could still see my pins.......the arrow was visually angled tip towards the riser before release.
This has NOTHING to do with equipment choice...........I would imagine the results would be similar with any other well tuned bow fit to me.
What I do wonder is why we spend so much time going over form and the minutia of tiny influences such as milliseconds of time an arrow is in contact with a rest or not.........even the slightest amout of torque or grip pressure........sight levels and so on and so on.
This is what I was getting at in an earlier thread titled "How bad are your misses?"...........I just wonder how bad people are missing out there and blaming it on slight torque, their equipment choice, or minor form flaws...........I just don't see it..........I have intentionally introduced extreme levels of "bad form" and have not seen extreme consequences.
Are we over analyzing how much of an effect these things have and/or simply blaming other things for our bad shots and "misses"??..........or are you guys really seeing misses of a foot or more at the slightest deviation from perfect form?
Group 1 (Normal)
02-06-2008, 01:06 PM
#6
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Southern MD
Posts: 2,520
RE: What's all the fuss about?? (forgiveness--accuracy--etc)
ORIGINAL: atlasman
What I do wonder is why we spend so much time going over form and the minutia of tiny influences such as milliseconds of time an arrow is in contact with a rest or not.........even the slightest amout of torque or grip pressure........sight levels and so on and so on.
This is what I was getting at in an earlier thread titled "How bad are your misses?"...........I just wonder how bad people are missing out there and blaming it on slight torque, their equipment choice, or minor form flaws...........I just don't see it..........I have intentionally introduced extreme levels of "bad form" and have not seen extreme consequences.
What I do wonder is why we spend so much time going over form and the minutia of tiny influences such as milliseconds of time an arrow is in contact with a rest or not.........even the slightest amout of torque or grip pressure........sight levels and so on and so on.
This is what I was getting at in an earlier thread titled "How bad are your misses?"...........I just wonder how bad people are missing out there and blaming it on slight torque, their equipment choice, or minor form flaws...........I just don't see it..........I have intentionally introduced extreme levels of "bad form" and have not seen extreme consequences.
02-06-2008, 01:10 PM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SE Ohio
Posts: 2,531
RE: What's all the fuss about?? (forgiveness--accuracy--etc)
ORIGINAL: atlasman
Look how high up the body the "bullseye" is!!!! This is what I love about 3D targets (not really, I think it lures guys into shooting higher than they should). I hate the fact that on a 3D target, you are shooting at a 10 spot that is actually a few inches above where most hunters would normally aim on an animal, at least the in the Cervid class.
Atlas, shoot a couple groups from 35-40-45 yds, and then let's talk!!!! At 25 yds, you can do that, ante up the yardage, and things start getting a little hairier. While to some extent I'll agree with you, I've shot groups with Blazers and Duravanes in a mixed batch, and had similar results with both, I don't think shooting something that weighs 50 extra grains is going to fly overly close once you get out a bit in range.
02-06-2008, 01:15 PM
#10
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 4,668
RE: What's all the fuss about?? (forgiveness--accuracy--etc)
ORIGINAL: brucelanthier
I can't speak for anyone else but I the reason I work on my form as much as I do and try to make my equipment as forgiving as possible (tuned bow, tuned heavy featheredarrows) is because if I DO miss it will be because of me. NOT my equipment, NOT the wind, NOT torque, etc. I missed because of me and I don't have to wonder about it. Same thing when I make a bad shot when target shooting out back. Once I am sure everything is set then I KNOW the bad shots are me (something I did wrong)and not my equipment.
ORIGINAL: atlasman
What I do wonder is why we spend so much time going over form and the minutia of tiny influences such as milliseconds of time an arrow is in contact with a rest or not.........even the slightest amout of torque or grip pressure........sight levels and so on and so on.
This is what I was getting at in an earlier thread titled "How bad are your misses?"...........I just wonder how bad people are missing out there and blaming it on slight torque, their equipment choice, or minor form flaws...........I just don't see it..........I have intentionally introduced extreme levels of "bad form" and have not seen extreme consequences.
What I do wonder is why we spend so much time going over form and the minutia of tiny influences such as milliseconds of time an arrow is in contact with a rest or not.........even the slightest amout of torque or grip pressure........sight levels and so on and so on.
This is what I was getting at in an earlier thread titled "How bad are your misses?"...........I just wonder how bad people are missing out there and blaming it on slight torque, their equipment choice, or minor form flaws...........I just don't see it..........I have intentionally introduced extreme levels of "bad form" and have not seen extreme consequences.
Couldn't agree more............EVERY"bad shot" I make I know it'smy fault...........I just don't think that it was because of a tiny amount of torque or a slight cant in the bow or inconsitent grip pressure.Seriously though........if you miss by a foot or so from 20-25 yards you did something MAJORLY wrong.........not that your sight bubble was on the line or your grip pressure was slightly off. JMO.