What's all the fuss about?? (forgiveness--accuracy--etc)
02-06-2008, 01:52 PM
#21
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Indiana (southern)
Posts: 6,146
RE: What's all the fuss about?? (forgiveness--accuracy--etc)
I agree with this, and i think i said it in my post on your other thread, if i miss by that much, i have flinched, chocked, or whatever.
ORIGINAL: atlasman
Couldn't agree more............EVERY"bad shot" I make I know it'smy fault...........I just don't think that it was because of a tiny amount of torque or a slight cant in the bow or inconsitent grip pressure.Seriously though........if you miss by a foot or so from 20-25 yards you did something MAJORLY wrong.........not that your sight bubble was on the line or your grip pressure was slightly off. JMO.
ORIGINAL: brucelanthier
I can't speak for anyone else but I the reason I work on my form as much as I do and try to make my equipment as forgiving as possible (tuned bow, tuned heavy featheredarrows) is because if I DO miss it will be because of me. NOT my equipment, NOT the wind, NOT torque, etc. I missed because of me and I don't have to wonder about it. Same thing when I make a bad shot when target shooting out back. Once I am sure everything is set then I KNOW the bad shots are me (something I did wrong)and not my equipment.
ORIGINAL: atlasman
What I do wonder is why we spend so much time going over form and the minutia of tiny influences such as milliseconds of time an arrow is in contact with a rest or not.........even the slightest amout of torque or grip pressure........sight levels and so on and so on.
This is what I was getting at in an earlier thread titled "How bad are your misses?"...........I just wonder how bad people are missing out there and blaming it on slight torque, their equipment choice, or minor form flaws...........I just don't see it..........I have intentionally introduced extreme levels of "bad form" and have not seen extreme consequences.
What I do wonder is why we spend so much time going over form and the minutia of tiny influences such as milliseconds of time an arrow is in contact with a rest or not.........even the slightest amout of torque or grip pressure........sight levels and so on and so on.
This is what I was getting at in an earlier thread titled "How bad are your misses?"...........I just wonder how bad people are missing out there and blaming it on slight torque, their equipment choice, or minor form flaws...........I just don't see it..........I have intentionally introduced extreme levels of "bad form" and have not seen extreme consequences.
Couldn't agree more............EVERY"bad shot" I make I know it'smy fault...........I just don't think that it was because of a tiny amount of torque or a slight cant in the bow or inconsitent grip pressure.Seriously though........if you miss by a foot or so from 20-25 yards you did something MAJORLY wrong.........not that your sight bubble was on the line or your grip pressure was slightly off. JMO.
02-06-2008, 01:58 PM
#22
Site Bouncer
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,099
RE: What's all the fuss about?? (forgiveness--accuracy--etc)
Nice post Atlas,
Kinda what I was trying to relay in the W/B thread.....too many people are quick to blame the equipment when it's themselves that they should be scrutinizing.
Kinda what I was trying to relay in the W/B thread.....too many people are quick to blame the equipment when it's themselves that they should be scrutinizing.
02-06-2008, 02:01 PM
#23
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 4,668
RE: What's all the fuss about?? (forgiveness--accuracy--etc)
ORIGINAL: brucelanthier
But that is just it, if we didn't pay attention to all the details, tuned bow/arrow/FOC etc. then if our grip pressure is off or the sight bubble is off then we will miss if the rest of our form is good.
But that is just it, if we didn't pay attention to all the details, tuned bow/arrow/FOC etc. then if our grip pressure is off or the sight bubble is off then we will miss if the rest of our form is good.
Do the same test that you just did but untune your bow or untune your arrow or untune both and then do the same test and see if the results are the same. Having your equipment tuned correctly makes it more forgiving of form errors. If your equipment is not tuned correctly then you cannot get away with bad bubbles/grip/etc. IMO
Ithink thatmakes the same point.........perhaps we are focusing and or fussing over the wrong thing. I wonder if guys are out there shooting all over the yard and thinking that it is because they are canting the bow 2 degrees or havean inconsistent grip with minor torque............searching for a tiny detail that will fix a major problem.
As far as tuning goes Iam nota fanatic.........Idon't use paper and tune for flat arrow flight only.....the groupswill be there if the arrow is flying true at least in my case. Somebasic things have to be assumed as far as tuning is concerned..........I mean, it's hard to say someone is a bad shot with a rifle if theyhave loose scope rings and the gun isn't even sighted in. Of course if your bow tune is awreck then all bets are off............literally anythingcould happen when you trip that release.
02-06-2008, 02:11 PM
#24
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan/Ohio
Posts: 11,682
RE: What's all the fuss about?? (forgiveness--accuracy--etc)
Tuning is a MAJOR isssue in the archery world. I bet 70% bowhunters have no idea if their bow is tuned or not. When we set up bows at cabelas we slap a rest on and sent it out the door How many guys do you think tuned the bow?
I bet most of the people who go to mechs do so for tuning reasons.
Shoot a poorly tuned bow with a WB or any contact rest and the shot will be more off than a Drop-away on average is my guess. Hence Drop-aways are better[&:]
I myself fell into the trap, I have been shooting a prong rest better than ever in league
Let face it, we're mental
Just like golfers[:-]
How many guys do you think tuned the bow?I bet most of the people who go to mechs do so for tuning reasons.
Shoot a poorly tuned bow with a WB or any contact rest and the shot will be more off than a Drop-away on average is my guess. Hence Drop-aways are better[&:]
I myself fell into the trap, I have been shooting a prong rest better than ever in league
Let face it, we're mental
Just like golfers[:-]
02-06-2008, 02:12 PM
#25
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 4,668
RE: What's all the fuss about?? (forgiveness--accuracy--etc)
ORIGINAL: bowdoc1
When I shot target if there was windy I always canted the top limb into the wind and used my level to show me how much. I don't like to aim off the target and the canting work great for me.
When I shot target if there was windy I always canted the top limb into the wind and used my level to show me how much. I don't like to aim off the target and the canting work great for me.
I'm not going to commit on the other things, I do see you shot one to the right on the #2.
I'll take that as a "miss" any day.........especially considering my bow was nearly horizontal when I shot.I was actually surprised how well that group was.
02-06-2008, 02:17 PM
#26
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Southeast, VA
Posts: 2,119
RE: What's all the fuss about?? (forgiveness--accuracy--etc)
I agree, most properly tunedbows(even older ones) are far more accurate than we could ever shoot them. When I shot a lot of tournaments I found that all of the form worries often caused me problems, I was thinking it to death instead of just relaxing and shooting. My mind was worried about form, draw, grip, release, etc. etc. etc. which often caused me to lose focus on the target. I think it's funny you did this test as I have performed many similiar "experiments" myself. Shooting sitting down, lying down,turned around, crouched, kneeling,canted, with/without release(just to see the effect on POI at 10, 20 &30), all kinds ofstuff.Most of the time the range was within 20-25 yards and surprisingly enoughthe large majorityof time the arrow went where the pin was with minimal accuracy problems. Thanks for posting your results and pics, I feel it's something more people should try, at the veryleast it gives you a little better understanding of your equipments capabilities.
02-06-2008, 02:20 PM
#27
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 4,668
RE: What's all the fuss about?? (forgiveness--accuracy--etc)
ORIGINAL: Germ
Tuning is a MAJOR isssue in the archery world. I bet 70% bowhunters have no idea if their bow is tuned or not. When we set up bows at cabelas we slap a rest on and sent it out the door How many guys do you think tuned the bow?
I bet most of the people who go to mechs do so for tuning reasons.
Tuning is a MAJOR isssue in the archery world. I bet 70% bowhunters have no idea if their bow is tuned or not. When we set up bows at cabelas we slap a rest on and sent it out the door
How many guys do you think tuned the bow?I bet most of the people who go to mechs do so for tuning reasons.
No doubt............I think many if not most issues (especially major ones) can be fixed by proper tuning.........if you are missing by a foot or more or are tearing up arrows on your rest then start from scratch and get properly tuned...........instead of wondering/hoping it's all because your draw arm is an inch too high.
02-06-2008, 02:21 PM
#28
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan/Ohio
Posts: 11,682
RE: What's all the fuss about?? (forgiveness--accuracy--etc)
ORIGINAL: NEW61375
I agree, most bows(even older ones) are far more accurate than we could ever shoot them. When I shot a lot of tournaments I found tha all of the form worries often caused me problems, I was thinking it to death instead of just relaxing and shooting. My mind was worried about form, draw, grip, release, etc. etc. etc. which often caused me to lose focus on the target. I think it's funny you did this test as I have performed many similiar "experiments" myself. Shooting sitting down, lying down,turned around, crouched, kneeling,canted, with/without release(just to see the effect on POI at 10, 20 &30), all kinds ofstuff. The majority of the timethe range was within 20-25 yards and surprisingly enoughthe large majorityof time the arrow went where the pin was with minimal accuracy problems. Thanks for posting your results and pics, I feel it's something more people should try, at the veryleast it gives you a little better understanding of your equipments capabilities.
I agree, most bows(even older ones) are far more accurate than we could ever shoot them. When I shot a lot of tournaments I found tha all of the form worries often caused me problems, I was thinking it to death instead of just relaxing and shooting. My mind was worried about form, draw, grip, release, etc. etc. etc. which often caused me to lose focus on the target. I think it's funny you did this test as I have performed many similiar "experiments" myself. Shooting sitting down, lying down,turned around, crouched, kneeling,canted, with/without release(just to see the effect on POI at 10, 20 &30), all kinds ofstuff. The majority of the timethe range was within 20-25 yards and surprisingly enoughthe large majorityof time the arrow went where the pin was with minimal accuracy problems. Thanks for posting your results and pics, I feel it's something more people should try, at the veryleast it gives you a little better understanding of your equipments capabilities.
We will miss more shots because of our heads than anything else. That is why we were such good shots in our younger days. We did not know or care
02-06-2008, 02:26 PM
#29
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: homer, NE
Posts: 347
RE: What's all the fuss about?? (forgiveness--accuracy--etc)
I will paper tune my bow only to see if the arrows right for the bow and weight. Then I go out side and at 30 yards I group tune my bow. Arrows hitting lift are right move the rest in are out are sometime a nock can be to low. A high arrow move nock up. I tune the bow to shoot good group. You may say I don't care how the arrow is flying as long as it groups really good and shoots my broadhead in the same group as my field points. People do blame the equipment to much for a bad shot and some times need to take a good look at the way they are making the shot.
02-06-2008, 02:38 PM
#30
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Elizabeth Colo. USA
Posts: 4,413
RE: What's all the fuss about?? (forgiveness--accuracy--etc)
SO, put some 1" broadheads on the front of those arrows and let's see the results. I'd guess that bad form will show up a little better with broadheads instead of field points on the front of the arrows.