OVER-Spined?
 

I've seena few posts about people being OVER-spined.

I KNOW my hunting arrows were over-spined. What's wrong with this?.....assuming you've got plenty of push (fps/KE)behind the arrow?

I'm talking about in a hunting situation.

RE: OVER-Spined?
 

I was always told its always better to be too heavy than to light. I can not see it being a problem at all!

RE: OVER-Spined?
 

I would think paper tunning would be the only set back. But for bowhunting if they look like they fly good and you are grouping that's good enough.

Darrall

RE: OVER-Spined?
 

Slightly overspined is ok, and with a dropaway even more overspined is probably ok. The spine lets the arrow bend slightly to help clear the rest. To much bend (underspined) and it doesn't recover, not enough bend (over spined) and it sort of "bounces" along the rest.

You can always "weaken" an overspined arrow by shooting a heavier BH as well. this also ups FOC which also helps accuracy. Can't really make the same move to stiffen an arrow.

RE: OVER-Spined?
 

There is nothing wrong with shooting an "overspined" arrow as long as it's not doing anything funky. Out of everyindoor or 3Dbow setup I've ever shot, I've never seen one that didn't fly well with a severely "overspined" arrow setup. The only time I worry about correct spine is for a field/fita archery setup where I will be shooting out to 90 meters, and a fixed blade broadhead hunting shaft.

Every of my best indoor games, and even my best 3D games were shot with "overspined" arrows. I cut them 1/2" in front of the blade on my rest, and never seem to have a problem.

RE: OVER-Spined?
 

As others have said, overspine is much better than underspine, and in some cases actually better.

RE: OVER-Spined?
 

Poor arrow flight leads to poor penetration. I'd rather take the time and get my set up right!:)

RE: OVER-Spined?
 

My GT 7595's are borderline "overspined" for my 29" draw at 70#. When I drop to 60#, I know they'll be overspined. I'm not certain how a 500 grain total weight, .300 deflection arrow will do out of a 60# setup. It sure would be slower than I'm shooting now. I'll bet the bow would be quiet, though.

Good question, Jeff. It'll be interesting to see what everyone thinks.

RE: OVER-Spined?
 

Borderline overspined or borderline underspined may be acceptable, you can play with tip weight and shaft length to help. If they tune well your good.

RE: OVER-Spined?
 

not to be rude...but question is more for TECH forum...see link below for answers to your question.

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=2594291

RE: OVER-Spined?
 

Not to be rude.....but I asked for info regarding a hunting setup.

RE: OVER-Spined?
 

no problem...

my bad!

RE: OVER-Spined?
 

I guess I'm puzzled over why you would want to be anything other than running an arrow of ideal spine. Of course, there are lots of instances of where someone inadvertently winds up with too stiff of an arrow - which is hard to mitigate, other than increasing tip weight or increasing pull weight - and reports that they actually shoot pretty well. But in my logic, I'm going to try get the spine as close to ideal as possible. The arrow has just got to fly straighter. Also, the tuning process - particularly paper tuning - can bea real frustrating processif the arrow spine is wrong.

RE: OVER-Spined?
 

Roskoe:

I look at this like pulling my ATV with my Tundra. Sure....it's rated for a LOT more weight.....but it pulls the trailer with the 4 wheeler on there....and you don't even know it's back there.

So....if my setup will handle the extra weight arrow (and spine).......what's the harm? I'm only gaining KE.

RE: OVER-Spined?
 

Jeff, I know you've already got the arrows, but if you were to do it again, here's an idea. You could use heavier brass inserts and a 125 head to get the KE up. Not to mention you'll have a FOC through the roof. You could probably get helicopter blades to fly straight like that :D. I know Rev or someone did this to get a high FOC setup, and it ended up being something rediculous like %22.

RE: OVER-Spined?
 

Matt:

if they made 125gr Rage heads.....they'd be on my arrows.;)

RE: OVER-Spined?
 

I have that request as well. ;)


I'll be shooting them again next year.

RE: OVER-Spined?
 

Here's what I'm thinking....I don't know this as fact, but to me, it seems logical. Thinking out loud here.............

An arrow HAS to flex upon release. It has no choice really. TOO much flex and the fletching has to work too hard to correct the flight.....hence, erradic arrow flight. Too LITTLE flex and it would want to flip the arrow over, yes?? Again, forcing the fletching to work overtime to correct it. I always get this part confused, I can't remember if underspined makes a left or a right tear....bear w/ me here....

But that's why if an arrow is underspined, you get a left/right tear, and if it's OVERspined you get a right/left tear...(whichever it is for a right handed shooter).........Sooooooo, logically, that problem would be amplified w/ the addition of a fixed blade broadhead, yes??

RE: OVER-Spined?
 

You lost me mobow.

Why do you think the arrow wants to flip end over end?

RE: OVER-Spined?
 

Don't know, Mobo. I shoot mech's....if that makes a diff.

RE: OVER-Spined?
 

They do make a 125Gr. head!!

RE: OVER-Spined?
 

And where did you get this info? It wasn't at the ATA show, nor was it an option when we placed our order for the heads a couple weeks ago ;)

RE: OVER-Spined?
 

IMO, the hunting arrow that will tune best with your hunting bow would be the best.

If someone mentions an arrow as being over-spined, then I would assume that the arrow is giving a stiff reaction to the bow at centershot (I'm assuming compound), and therefore would not be the best arrow to use. The arrow fletchings would have to correct the flight to some degree.

RE: OVER-Spined?
 

2-blade 125gr head?

RE: OVER-Spined?
 

Bob....

At 310fps.....and under 20yds......tell me what happens when you're overspined.

Curious!

RE: OVER-Spined?
 

GMMAT I've always wondered the same thing. My arrows are borderline overspined for my setup two , and I've never had any problems tuning or getting good fixed blade broadhead flight.

I think alot of the things that we take as gospel come from the days of finger shooting and plunger rests.Back then, you had to have a properly spined arrowto account for "archers paradox" and to allow the fletching to clear the riser/rest.

Nowadays, witha mechanical release and a string loop and a dropaway rest, I'm sure you can get away with alot stiffer arrows than you could otherwise out of a hunting bow.

I've asked this question alot on archerytalk, and I never really got a satisfactory answer. Just a bunch of dated rhetoric.

RE: OVER-Spined?
 

I'm sure you are in a better position to answer your own question. I was just giving my opinion. ;)

RE: OVER-Spined?
 

If you're getting an overspined reaction, do you consider your bow to be tuned?

Do you need a tuned bow to shoot 20 yards?

I did.

RE: OVER-Spined?
 

Bob....I'm asking because I don't know.

The question I asked has a caveat, though. IF you're pushing WAY enough to send the arrow.....say 310fps.......will the overpined be a non-issue?

I think that's a fair question....and not just looking at overspined generically.

RE: OVER-Spined?
 

I Agree!;)

Dan

RE: OVER-Spined?
 

You guys are missing the point.....or I am.

What am I gaining by going to a lighter arrow (which it would be)? For a 20yd shot......310fps? My setup will handle the extra weight.

What am I sacrificing?

RE: OVER-Spined?
 

I don't think it would be an issue as long as everything is perfect with the shot and POI and the arrow has the time/distance needed to stabilize. But anything that could add to an arrow that is already trying to stabilize from the stiff reaction coming off the bow might add an additional dimension to flight especiallyin hunting conditions.

RE: OVER-Spined?
 

In short, a properly spined arrow will stabilize in flight MUCH quicker than an improperly spined one. I know you're shooting mechanicals, but when you screw on a fixed blade head to an arrow that is already working hard to stabilize itself, well....It's amplified tremendously.

Now, will that matter much at 20 yards? Like Bob said, probably not if it has time to stabilize itself. If the arrow is still stabilizing itself when it hits said target, it won't hit squarely, and KE will be absorbed by the arrow instead of transferred to the BH, thus affecting penetration.

We all know a properly tuned bow is the most accurate, and efficient. Properly spined arrows are part of that equation. But as has been said, it's better to be over than under. If you're under, your arrow is burning up the KE by flexing.

I know what I'm trying to say darnint, but maybe I'm not saying it very well....

RE: OVER-Spined?
 

I shoot .300 spine shafts for most everything.... They always fly good for me....

How about starting with a .300 spine arrow, with 65 grain fp's and arrows cut at 27.5 inches....

That's stiff..... Seems to be shooting awfuly good out of my Marquis set at 60 pounds ;)

RE: OVER-Spined?
 

Pretty cut and dry! Shooting the correct arrow is a win-win situation! Why wouldn't you want to shoot the correct arrow???

RE: OVER-Spined?
 

I try to get the arrow spine as close as possible. Why not? If I want a heavy or light arrow I can still accomplish that and stay within the proper spine range;)

Dan

RE: OVER-Spined?
 

Here is what dave cousins has to say about overspined arrows.[align=left]

Tips.
Arrow setup.

The reason for the heavy point is to get the arrow to spine correctly for my set up. Under normal standards the 2512 and 2315 would be too stiff at proper shaft length and recommended point weight.
Due to the fact we are only able to shoot 60 lbs. max for FITA I have to weaken the shaft in order to shoot one as large in diameter as the 25xx and 23xx. I use three ways to weaken or stiffen a shaft so that it performs well from my bow with out adjusting the draw weight.
1. Shaft length, the longer a shaft is the weaker it will react off the bow. The opposite is true for a shorter shaft.
2. Point weight, the heaver a point is the weaker it will make a shaft react off the bow. The opposite is true for a lighter point.
3. Fletching, The lighter you fletching is the weaker it will make the shaft react off the bow. The opposite is true for heaver fletching.
Finding out what works for you is what it’s all about. There are two schools of thought on setting up indoor arrows.
1. The first school of thought, you spine them to your set up in order to get the most forgiven arrow you can
2. The second school of thought, you don’t spine them at all and shoot the biggest diameter shaft at the shortest length you can get away with as little fletching and point weight as possible and let form be your guide.
With the second method only perfect shots will go in the middle. I prefer the first school of thought because no one is perfect all the time and I don’t mind having a little slop.
Of course there is a third school of thought on this. It’s the one that states you should shoot the arrow that best matches your set up regardless of diameter.
But then you run the risk of being made fun of by your shooting buddies when they notice your shooting much smaller arrows than them!














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RE: OVER-Spined?
 

It is so much easier to get a near perfect tune with a properly spined arrow and that is crucial for great broadhead flight.

RE: OVER-Spined?
 

I appreciate everyone's input.....but I'm just one of those that needs to know "why".

"Why" (in the setu I mentioned) is being overspined a bad thing? It has advantages (xtra weight). I haven't heard anything detrimental.....other than blanket overpsine rhetoric.

How much "correction" can occur at 300fps at <20yds? I'm being serious.

I never changed my setup between these arrows and the ones I shot that were much lighter (Radial X-Weaves) whenI was turkey hunting. I never had to chnge the sight. My target arrows were 60gr lighter....and I shot the exact same setup.....never moving anything. Never had to.

I just never experienced anything erratic.....or even close in my arrow flight.

RE: OVER-Spined?
 

I am going to split hairs here but for the record,hunting arrows and even to a small degree,3-d arrows can be a little overspined and most will not be able to tell the difference,so with that out of the way.


For hunting the only reason is tuning.A properly spined arrow will absorb the energy from the bow and not shed the energy.

The arrow is a shock absorber as well as a tuning fork.The spine has to be close to absorb all the energy and not kick .An arrow that even wants to kick doesn't tune as well as one that absorbs and rockets forward.This will be a big advantage when trying to get field tips and broadheads to hit the same spot.

The tuning fork scenario really comes into play downrange at extreme distances.A properly spined arrow will vibrate all the way to the target just like a tuning fork,when this is lost,so is stability.That is why you see fita arrows and such with so many different spines.Another reason is for finger shooters for whom spine is a huge factor.