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ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter

Maybe the thing to do is get everyone together that wants to hunt his property and pool your money. Just like any hunting club anywhere else.
My guess is that, all things being equal, most farmers would rather lease to a small group of their neighbors.

Another option is to lease the ground yourself and let a few hunters on for a fee to help you pay your lease. You keep control but the cost stays down. Of course then, technically, you'd be an outfitter yourself....one of the bad guys;)

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ORIGINAL: englum_06


The land where my issue was, the outfitter came in and tried to by all the neighbors/surrounding property out. He probably tried to buy close to 1000 acres I'd say. I can't say that amount for sure but I can tell you he tried to buy 5 or 6 different properties and each had a couple hudred acres or so with it. But where I am, he BOUGHT it, he's not LEASING it. It's his.

He's put no trespassing signs up all over warning of video surveillance and threatening to prosectue, but what gets me is he thinks he has access to all 200 acres of the land instead of the 100 that he bought. He keeps bringing hunters over onto the side that I hunt, he's used my stand when I wasn't in it, and he's put stands up on our side.

And just so you know, Im not saying all outfitters are bad guys. I've been playing the Devils Advocate role somewhat. I know that outfitters are a necessity- I understand that people not from around here need them to hunt, BUT, I do think that an EXCESS of outfitters is a bad thing. I feel they should limit the amount of outfitters in a state, county and also limit the amount of ground allowed to be outfitted.

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ORIGINAL: TerryM

Based on what you are saying the outfitter is doing which is plain old tresspassing and breaking the law, this guy is not really typical of an outfitter now is he? If they as a proffession all acted like that slob then there would be no outfitter industry to speak of.

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ORIGINAL: englum_06

Im not saying all outfitters are bad guys. I've been playing the Devils Advocate role somewhat. I know that outfitters are a necessity- I understand that people not from around here need them to hunt, BUT, I do think that an EXCESS of outfitters is a bad thing. I feel they should limit the amount of outfitters in a state, county and also limit the amount of ground allowed to be outfitted

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ORIGINAL: englum_06


The land where my issue was, the outfitter came in and tried to by all the neighbors/surrounding property out. He probably tried to buy close to 1000 acres I'd say. I can't say that amount for sure but I can tell you he tried to buy 5 or 6 different properties and each had a couple hudred acres or so with it. But where I am, he BOUGHT it, he's not LEASING it. It's his.

He's put no trespassing signs up all over warning of video surveillance and threatening to prosectue, but what gets me is he thinks he has access to all 200 acres of the land instead of the 100 that he bought. He keeps bringing hunters over onto the side that I hunt, he's used my stand when I wasn't in it, and he's put stands up on our side.

And just so you know, Im not saying all outfitters are bad guys. I've been playing the Devils Advocate role somewhat. I know that outfitters are a necessity- I understand that people not from around here need them to hunt, BUT, I do think that an EXCESS of outfitters is a bad thing. I feel they should limit the amount of outfitters in a state, county and also limit the amount of ground allowed to be outfitted.

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ORIGINAL: huntingson

First off, Illinois is overpopulated with deer, but that has nothing to do with what I was talking about. Wouldn't an overpopulation be another sign that the management practices are not working? Thanks for helping me make my point.

I also said outfitters AND private land owners, which, and correct me if I am wrong, is the land that is leased;)I have never heard of a hunter leasing public land, but who knows what you goofy people do:D If by funny papers you mean the main publications that release whitetail research studies, then I don't know what to tell you. You are in denial because THE MAN came and stole "your" precious hunting land.

It isn't like I am gaining anything by saying that Illinois management is doing poorly. Do some research and by all means correct me if you find valid information.

One good resource for this is the November 2007 issue of Deer & Deer Hunter.

Lastly, do you hate all outfitters or just white tail outfitters in Illinois? Serious question.

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ORIGINAL: Splitear_Leland

Illinois is what some people would call over populated with deer. This by no means has anything to do with how managment practices are done here in Illinois. It surprises me how an out of stater can read an article, probably written by another out of stater, and all of the sudden is an expert in Illinois deer managment faliure. The biggest reason I can see for an overpopulation is caused by outfitting and out of state leases. If a guy pays $200 an acre on a 100 acre lease that he gets to hunt two weeks out of the year, is said hunter going to do much to cut down on the deer herd on said lease. Probably not, he is probably going to wait for a buck to come by, and if one doesn't, maybe harvest 1 doe before he leaves. Where as in some years past I have harvested over 10 deer in 1 season. Now tell me who is the one helping cut down on overpopulation. So keep reading your "deer research", but until you can give someone who has lived here, and has been around what is going on, someone who hunts Illinois every year, someone who drives to work in Illinois everyday some first hand knowledge of whats going on, not just some biased researsh bullcrap, you probably need to keep your mouth shut.
As far as disapproving outfitters other than those that are affecting me, if they have the same principals, and if they cause the same problems to HUNTERS like myself, I disapprove of them yes. But again, WITHOUT FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE, I cannot cast judgement.

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ORIGINAL: Cougar Mag

ORIGINAL: Cougar Mag

huntingson, as much as I enjoy reading your posts on other threads you are not making any sense at all regarding outfitters and private landowners are the only ones managing the land and producing the B&C bucks. How many B&C bucks do you think are taken in any state on public land vs private land? You also say Illinois allows too many bucks to be taken......IL. allows only 2 bucks per season total, regardless of weapon(s) used. Thats 2! IL. also has no limit on does taken by residents or non-residents and non-residents can buy antlerless tags cheap. So tell me how is IL. allowing too many bucks to be taken?

I believe when it comes to sound deer herd management shoudn't that include does as well as bucks? Be honest here, an outfitter manages for big bucks and I know they encourage does to be taken but not many hunters booking with an outfitter are taking does for fear the next deer that might apear is the buck of their dreams.

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ORIGINAL: Kid

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! I find it quite telling that not a single ILLINOIS resident has much good to say about outfitters. I've said it before and i'll say it again, over 90% of the deer harvested by non-residents are Bucks. So, in my opinion, Illinois is allowing too many Bucks to be taken by non-residents. There are some outfitters in Illinois who do a good job managing their herd, but you guys that believe that outfitters are "saving" deer hunting in Illinois are sadly misguided. I agree with the post that made the point that we had big bucks long before the outfitters came. The real problem is the hunters (almost exclusively non-residents)who are willing to pay absolutely ridiculous amounts of money to harvest bucks herebecause either their own home state is sadly lacking in it's management program and/or their own lack of hunting skills means they have to pay someone to put them on big bucks. Illinois's reputation for big bucks is the single worst thing to ever happen to deer hunting in this state, IMHO.

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ORIGINAL: Kid

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! I find it quite telling that not a single ILLINOIS resident has much good to say about outfitters. I've said it before and i'll say it again, over 90% of the deer harvested by non-residents are Bucks. So, in my opinion, Illinois is allowing too many Bucks to be taken by non-residents. There are some outfitters in Illinois who do a good job managing their herd, but you guys that believe that outfitters are "saving" deer hunting in Illinois are sadly misguided. I agree with the post that made the point that we had big bucks long before the outfitters came. The real problem is the hunters (almost exclusively non-residents)who are willing to pay absolutely ridiculous amounts of money to harvest bucks herebecause either their own home state is sadly lacking in it's management program and/or their own lack of hunting skills means they have to pay someone to put them on big bucks. Illinois's reputation for big bucks is the single worst thing to ever happen to deer hunting in this state, IMHO.

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ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter

One property in Brown county

635 acres

Landowner requested a goal of 15 does taken

2007 harvest 15 does 6 bucks.

ALL but three of the does were shot by non residents. Those three were shot by the landowners family. It's all in how things are managed

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ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter

One property in Brown county

635 acres

Landowner requested a goal of 15 does taken

2007 harvest 15 does 6 bucks.

ALL but three of the does were shot by non residents. Those three were shot by the landowners family. It's all in how things are managed

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ORIGINAL: englum_06

I would absolutely love for you to tell me how one man/family is supposed to pay a farmer more than what an outfitting business can. Must have some pretty deep pockets or something.

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ORIGINAL: Splitear_Leland

Which is great for that one piece of property, but are you gonna tell me that all leased and outfitted properties are managed this way. You can find an example to prove anything that you want, but it still doesn't make you right. There are antlered does, but does that mean that the majority of does have antlers. It's not even worth arguing with you over these things because you are going to bend it to where you are in the right, and I the majority of Illinois resident HUNTERS are in the wrong. We are thieves because we "take something for nothing", and outfitters are saviors because all they do is give back. Give me a break man.

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ORIGINAL: THWACK_007

You obviously dont know much do you? Outfitters lease many farmers land. They lease land for about $20-30 an acre. Are you telling me that is outrageous? I know of some prime spots that outfitters are leasing land for that price. So you dont know of 3-4 guys that wouldlease a 200 acre farm for $4000-6000 a year??

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ORIGINAL: Splitear_Leland

Which is great for that one piece of property, but are you gonna tell me that all leased and outfitted properties are managed this way. You can find an example to prove anything that you want, but it still doesn't make you right. There are antlered does, but does that mean that the majority of does have antlers. It's not even worth arguing with you over these things because you are going to bend it to where you are in the right, and I the majority of Illinois resident HUNTERS are in the wrong. We are thieves because we "take something for nothing", and outfitters are saviors because all they do is give back. Give me a break man.

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ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter

Sorry I got your shorts in a bunch there Splitear! All I did was point out that at least some outfitters( and I'd bet more than you could imagine) do manage their land properly.

It appears you are having a hard time dealing with reasonable posts that dont fit into your point of view[:'(]

By the way, you never answered my questions from before:

Have you ever or do you ever plan to use an outfitter to hunt away from home?

or this one:

You say you did things for your landowner...well it obviously wasn't enough. If your boss cut some firewood for you and maybe fixed your truck, should he be able to pay you less ? maybe he ought to be able to pay you less cause he likes you? The farmer is simply making a living with his land.The outfitter is part of it too but if there wasn't a market for it, neither would get any money. Your anger is misdirected. If the demand wasnt there, outfitting wouldnt exist. Outfitters didnt create the demand.BTW, Most situations I've seen with Illinois landowners is that they give the folks who presently huntfirst chance to match any offers they get.


You know, you are fortunate enough to live where the deer hunting can be phenomenal. I'm happy for you. I also understand to some extent that it must be frustrating that hunting around you has changed. The fact that hunters are now willing to pay to hunt where you live is not the fault of the outfitters or the landowners.

Ifyou discovered oil or gold or something else of value on your land, would you just give it to your friends or would you sell it? You know darn well that you'd sell it! Illinois landowners have discovered that there is a market for the right to hunt. Why should they give it to you for free?

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ORIGINAL: englum_06

You can't tell me what is affordable. And yeah, you're right- I don't know of three guys thatcould pay $2,000 each to hunt. Maybe they would WANT to, but being ABLE to is a difference. Some people can't afford that. And even if they could, what would the other option be if the outfitter, like most would do, offered more than what the typical hunter can?

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ORIGINAL: THWACK_007


Well if I cant tell you what is affordable then I guess I cant answer YOUR original question!

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ORIGINAL: IL_ray_phillips

I live in the small town I grew up in. I had the desire to hunt at a very young age even though nobody in my family did. I would go door knocking and ask localfarmers for permission to huntin which some of them owned 10's of 1000's of acres. I was rejected and told they didnt want anyone hunting on them. I respected that because it was their property and their right to say no.Iended up findingout 1 of my buddies dad had 80 acresthat I could deer hunt on.
I hunted this property for many years and let them know I was grateful.When I got marriedmy wifes father farmed and I gained some pretty good hunting grounds. Not alot in terms of major acres. When I started hunting HIS property I run into all these rednecks who tell me to get off their ground. I beg to differ with them and tell them they are on priviate property. They tell me they have hunted this property for years and they were not going to stop. These are also the ding dongs who shoot with the spot light because they stink to much to get into the woods with a mature buck.Anyway I happen to persuade them ina different direction on their thoughts. Now they just sneak in on the neighbors property who dont allow hunting and claim it as their own.
I started a hunting club and leased up quite a bit of property around Wayne and Clay County IL. I have fellow hunters from within the state and outwho pay me yearly dues to hunt the property. I have built a nice place for them to stay while they are in hunting and we have a blast managing the properties. We take an average of 40 deer a year and usually about 8 to 10 bucks.I dont profit from the club just have a decent place to hunt.
I know what it is like not having a place to hunt due to all the priviate property butI am not going to complain at a person for securing a place for himself and others to hunt by outfitting. I am not going to complain about a landowner making extra money for himselfand his familybecause they leased to anoutfitter.I will complain at the redneck who thinks just because he has hunted someones property forseveral years that gives him control over it. Maybe those losing hunting property should have offered to pay the property taxes or spend countless hours in a tractor to compensate the farmer on his losses for his hand out. Its like the hunter welfare system. Some people are willing to go outand work hard for the ground they have to hunt. They seem to appriciate it alot more than the person who wants it given to them. Just typicalUSA I guess.I know a farmer who completely shut down hunting on his property. If a person was decent enough to ask for permission he would give it. Several people started bickering and running his own family out of his woods because it was their hunting spot.
Which is worse? An outfitter who has paid money to a landowner to legally have hunting rights onthe property, boosted the local economy, help maintain a healty deer herd, prevent trespassing and poaching(one in the same) or some poor excuse of a redneck hunter who thinks he should have access to ever chunk of timber to wack every deer he can so he add to his stack of illegal antlers nailed on his garage wall.
Guess I better get back to the question! I have been on severaloutfitted fishing trips. If I didnt I would not have had a clue where to begin. I have not been on an outfitted hunt. When I can afford it I plan on taking a fully guided bou hunt. So I will hunt with an outfitter.

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ORIGINAL: THWACK_007


Well if I cant tell you what is affordable then I guess I cant answer YOUR original question! The majority of the people against outfitters are those wanting free, privately owned hunting grounds.

And by the way...I know many people that would $2000 a year for 200 acres of prime hunting and you would find many on this site that would!!

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ORIGINAL: IL_ray_phillips


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ORIGINAL: englum_06
I love how maybe just because some people can't afford to pay to lease, that that makes them a poor excuse of a poaching redneck. Wow man you're way off base on that one.


If a farmers decides to lease his propertyhe ownsit and that is his right. A person who continues tosneak into a property that hedoes not havepermission to hunt and disruptsthe hunting of people who leased the ground is a POACHER! Yes, it sucks that hunting ground is hard to come by. I spent my first 8 years of hunting on a smallproperty that got pounded from every direction. I decided that if I wanted to take quality deer and have anice place to hunt in the futureI needed to do something about it and I did.

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ORIGINAL: IL_ray_phillips

I refered to situations in my post of who I was talking about. I see you live in central IL but I dont think you are the individual/individuals that I was dealing with. So no I was not refering to You/and whoever we is! I got all fired up and should have made my post more clear. Ihave not had a problem with outfitters moving in and causing me problems. In the past I have had problems with people trying to run me off my leased and owned property. I have had people sneak in and hunt where they are not welcomed because they think they have a right to be there when they don't. All in all I have had more trouble with local numbskulls than outfitters.

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