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RE: WB; not accurate?
ORIGINAL: Washington Hunter ORIGINAL: Dr Andy ORIGINAL: LouisianaTomkat How would everyone like a Peanut-Butter and Onion sandwich and a glass of Grape Kool-Aide? Then we can resume this discussion. After all, it is LT Got the idea from Backcountry Bowhunting, Cameron is really onto something with those!  |
RE: WB; not accurate?
ORIGINAL: Washington Hunter Meh, I'm not going to deny it. Jeff really irritated the hell out of me at one point and I happened to mention it in PM. Like I said before.........all I have said is the truth. I am not the one doing the 180. What Atlas fails to realize is that I don't live in the past. I do my best not to hold grudges. If you were to ask me what it was that Jeff did or said to piss me off, I really couldn't tell you what it was. Hindsight is 20/20 though and people show their true character over time. The fact that Atlas is so quick to mention something like that really goes to show his character. |
RE: WB; not accurate?
And I really don't have a problem with you, Atlas.
I just get sick of all the arguments. Constantly. |
RE: WB; not accurate?
ORIGINAL: Washington Hunter And I really don't have a problem with you, Atlas. I just get sick of all the arguments. Constantly. I really don't see how that is insulting.........and truely didn't mean it to be. |
RE: WB; not accurate?
ORIGINAL: atlasman ORIGINAL: Washington Hunter And I really don't have a problem with you, Atlas. I just get sick of all the arguments. Constantly. I really don't see how that is insulting.........and truely didn't mean it to be. Can we just agree to disagree and call it good? You didn't mean for things to be taken off track and weren't trying to insult Jeff, understood. |
RE: WB; not accurate?
Atlas, if he wasnt overly detailed, and didnt strive to be who he'd like to be, how would he ever better himself at the level and goals he is setting himself at.
Do you want a artist/taxidermist that just gets the job done or one that pays attention to what he's doing and assures you that he does good work and pays attention to the finest details to better his piece? |
RE: WB; not accurate?
ORIGINAL: Washington Hunter Because of your and Jeff's past, its easy to take your posts as argumentative. Why just mine? |
RE: WB; not accurate?
Back to the topic at hand:Somebody may have mentioned this (I didn't read all 13 pages), so stop me if they did.. But how about a little game of Whisker Biscuit Mythbusters?
Hell, a biscuit only costs a few bucks - so why doesn't somebody (who is 100% impartial)pick one up, mount it on your bow (properly) and shoot it for a few rounds. Keep detailed scoring records. Maybe see how it stacks up against a prong-style rest and a dropaway. I kinda like the biscuit (at least the newer ones with the black whiskers at the bottom, and the side-load feature). I got mine as part of my "experimental" setup last summer, and honestlythought I'd hate it.However,its performance has been . . . well . . . shocking. But, if somebody could convince me that it was MEASURABLY less accurate than a dropaway - I'd probably switch. |
RE: WB; not accurate?
Atlas - Because you're prone to being argumentative, as is Jeff I suppose. I take it back. Both of your posts can be taken that way. Now can we agree to disagree?
Quick - I thought that was what I was doing here, in a sense. |
RE: WB; not accurate?
ORIGINAL: buckmaster Atlas, if he wasnt overly detailed, and didnt strive to be who he'd like to be, how would he ever better himself at the level and goals he is setting himself at. Do you what and artist/taxidermist that jsut gets the job done or one that pays attention to what he's doing and assures you that he does good work and pays attention to the finest details to better his peice? I think I would want one that has been doing it for 30 years...........and not a guy who just started and buys everything so their shops look the same. |
RE: WB; not accurate?
ORIGINAL: Washington Hunter Quick - I thought that was what I was doing here, in a sense. |
RE: WB; not accurate?
The wb isn't measurably less accurate,they are measureably less forgiving imo.
I am not buying one to test it.Anyone that has one,purposely torque the grip and see how the poi is affected and then do the same with a prong style or whatever and see how it stacks up.IMO,the dropped arm shot would also be worse with the wb and I KNOW they are not as easy to tune PROPERLY.I have done that one more than a few times. BUT,that has little to do with accuracy and imo,it is a fine hunting rest if that is what you want to use.But it isn't for me. |
RE: WB; not accurate?
Wash - I agree. But, in order to "convince" anyone that the biscuit can shoot arrow-for-arrow with a top-end dropaway, it will take a statistically significant set of data - collected under fair conditions. I'm thinking something indoors - keeping score. Something we can put in numerical terms and arrive at a definite conclusion.
But I'm with ya - you'd have a hard time convincing me that the biscuit is THAT much less accurate than the latest and greatest dropaway. I'll never know, b/c I'm not taking my biscuit off until somebody proves to me that it really is more inaccurate than the competitors. But, if somebody can convince me...I'm definitely receptive to the idea. |
RE: WB; not accurate?
ORIGINAL: Washington Hunter Atlas - Because you're prone to being argumentative, as is Jeff I suppose. I take it back. Both of your posts can be taken that way. Now can we agree to disagree? Quick - I thought that was what I was doing here, in a sense. Me too..........as good an "experiment"as you could get given the circumstances. |
RE: WB; not accurate?
I gotcha, Quick.
TFOX - When you say tune properly... You mean get a good hole through paper with both a field point and broadhead, correct? I've always had awesome luck paper tuning the WB. Is there something you're meaning that I'm not picking up here? |
RE: WB; not accurate?
ORIGINAL: quiksilver Wash - I agree. But, in order to "convince" anyone that the biscuit can shoot arrow-for-arrow with a top-end dropaway, it will take a statistically significant set of data - collected under fair conditions. I'm thinking something indoors - keeping score. Something we can put in numerical terms and arrive at a definite conclusion. But I'm with ya - you'd have a hard time convincing me that the biscuit is THAT much less accurate than the latest and greatest dropaway. I'll never know, b/c I'm not taking my biscuit off until somebody proves to me that it really is more inaccurate than the competitors. But, if somebody can convince me...I'm definitely receptive to the idea. I don'tthink you could prove that about any piece of equipment with a person shooting it.......especially over a short time..........way too subjective. The guywinning at Vegas with it would be the cleanest example I guess........an example of "It's not the rest........It's the shooter". |
RE: WB; not accurate?
ORIGINAL: Washington Hunter I gotcha, Quick. TFOX - When you say tune properly... You mean get a good hole through paper with both a field point and broadhead, correct? I've always had awesome luck paper tuning the WB. Is there something you're meaning that I'm not picking up here? I have actually found them very hard to not have a tail high tear with the arrow set level on a bow with level nock travel.IMO,the bristles are entirley too stiff and the bristles manipulate the arrows path too much. |
RE: WB; not accurate?
Actually... Even if I knew that the WB wasproven to beless accurate, less forgiving and whatnot, I'd probably keep it on there anyway,just to torment the masses here on HNI.
The Kingstrives to have the most offensive hunting setup on Huntingnet. The whisker biscuit isthe crown jewel ofthe King's scepter. I still think we need an official test. It's late January - a perfect time for such pointless endeavors. |
RE: WB; not accurate?
ORIGINAL: TFOX The wb isn't measurably less accurate,they are measureably less forgiving imo. I am not buying one to test it.Anyone that has one,purposely torque the grip and see how the poi is affected and then do the same with a prong style or whatever and see how it stacks up.IMO,the dropped arm shot would also be worse with the wb and I KNOW they are not as easy to tune PROPERLY.I have done that one more than a few times. BUT,that has little to do with accuracy and imo,it is a fine hunting rest if that is what you want to use.But it isn't for me. I have torqued as crazy as possible out of boredom and saw misses but nothing dramatic (probably a foot or so). I just started a thread on this (How bad are your misses??) I can strangle my bow grip and still be right around the 10 ring consistently. I have also found mine to be quite easy to tune and stay there........I guess I am lucky. |
RE: WB; not accurate?
ORIGINAL: TFOX ORIGINAL: Washington Hunter I gotcha, Quick. TFOX - When you say tune properly... You mean get a good hole through paper with both a field point and broadhead, correct? I've always had awesome luck paper tuning the WB. Is there something you're meaning that I'm not picking up here? Getting that good paper tear with the proper spined arrow,proper centershot,and after walk back and group tuning along with broadhead tuning thrown in for good measure. I have actually found them very hard to not have a tail high tear with the arrow set level on a bow with level nock travel.IMO,the bristles are entirley too stiff and the bristles manipulate the arrows path too much. |
RE: WB; not accurate?
ORIGINAL: quiksilver Actually... Even if I knew that the WB wasproven to beless accurate, less forgiving and whatnot, I'd probably keep it on there anyway,just to torment the masses here on HNI. The Kingstrives to have the most offensive hunting setup on Huntingnet. The whisker biscuit isthe crown jewel ofthe King's scepter. I still think we need an official test. It's late January - a perfect time for such pointless endeavors. Something tells me this wouldn't suffice for some. |
RE: WB; not accurate?
Quick,you like it and that is what is important,it works as well,even more important.
Here is a slow motion clip that supports exactlty what I have found to be the case in all my experience with them.WHICH isn't that extensive but more than a few. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwTizMtvKwI Compare that to a prong.Which also backs my findings. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3s2Vq_ZnUo Here is a dropaway,notice how long the arrow is left floating by itself with no guidance.The wb is good in this department but imo,is still in contact well after the string has let go. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfRmvX8hy5g |
RE: WB; not accurate?
Wash - you could shoot it out of a hooter shooter, on a perfectly-tuned bow, on HD Blu Ray video, inside a vacuum, on a Sunday, on10 stacks of bibles, with Jesus, Moses, your motherand a dozen nunsas sworn witnesses - and people would still pick at it.
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RE: WB; not accurate?
The problem I have with that video TFOX, is that its the old model WB. No one really uses that model anymore for anything but bowfishing, as thats what it is marketed for these days.
I want to see a slow motion video of the updated model, brown bristles instead of all black. |
RE: WB; not accurate?
ORIGINAL: quiksilver Wash - you could shoot it out of a hooter shooter, on a perfectly-tuned bow, on HD Blu Ray video, inside a vacuum, on a Sunday, on10 stacks of bibles, with Jesus, Moses, your motherand a dozen nunsas sworn witnesses - and people would still pick at it. But what if we made it 11 bibles? Would that be too many? Would people ask "Why 11 bibles? Why not 12?" |
RE: WB; not accurate?
I posted this a while back but nobody seemed to pay attention to it.
What about the trend by the drop away folks of trying to keep the arrow ON the rest for as long as possible stating that it makes for a more stable arrow? I know that it's the "Wammy's" talking point. They say an arrow is better stabilized if left on the rest for a longer period of time. Could you imagine the panic in the drop away ranks if this ends up being true?:D I'm not buying the "less forgiving" theory either. I don't think it matters in the least what rest you have on your bow. At todays speeds, that arrow is on the rest fractions of a second. I believe most folks problems are happening BEFORE the release is even tripped. Once that arrow is released it spends a millisecond of time on the rest....any rest. I don't know.....All I know is my arrows go where I aim them at any distance I shoot and I'm using a Whisker Biscuit. If they don't it has nothing to do with the rest or any other component on the bow....except for they person behind it.;) |
RE: WB; not accurate?
ORIGINAL: BigJ71 I posted this a while back but nobody seemed to pay attention to it. What about the trend by the drop away folks of trying to keep the arrow ON the rest for as long as possible stating that it makes for a more stable arrow? I know that it's the "Wammy's" talking point. They say an arrow is better stabilized if left on the rest for a longer period of time. Could you imagine the panic in the drop away ranks if this ends up being true?:D I'm not buying the "less forgiving" theory either. I don't think it matters in the least what rest you have on your bow. At todays speeds. that arrow is on the rest fractions of a second. I believe most folks problems are happening BEFORE the release is even tripped. Once that arrow is released it spends a millisecond of time on the rest....any rest. I don't know.....All I know is my arrows go where I aim them at any distance I shoot and I'm using a Whisker Biscuit. If they don't it has nothing to do with the rest or any other component on the bow....except for they person behind it.;) |
RE: WB; not accurate?
ORIGINAL: BigJ71 I posted this a while back but nobody seemed to pay attention to it. What about the trend by the drop away folks of trying to keep the arrow ON the rest for as long as possible stating that it makes for a more stable arrow? I know that it's the "Wammy's" talking point. They say an arrow is better stabilized if left on the rest for a longer period of time. Could you imagine the panic in the drop away ranks if this ends up being true?:D I'm not buying the "less forgiving" theory either. I don't think it matters in the least what rest you have on your bow. At todays speeds, that arrow is on the rest fractions of a second. I believe most folks problems are happening BEFORE the release is even tripped. Once that arrow is released it spends a millisecond of time on the rest....any rest. I don't know.....All I know is my arrows go where I aim them at any distance I shoot and I'm using a Whisker Biscuit. If they don't it has nothing to do with the rest or any other component on the bow....except for they person behind it.;) Those miliseconds matter and I agree,most happens before the trigger is tripped.I eluded to what you posted in my last response. Washington,I have only worked with the newer ones and they are the ones I find doing exactly what is shown in the video.I find the bristels entirely too stiff. Think about this,why do prong rest have a tension adjustment on the prongs.Answer is to soften them up so they won't kick the arrow up like in the wb video,now,where is the adjustment on the wb? |
RE: WB; not accurate?
ORIGINAL: Washington Hunter The problem I have with that video TFOX, is that its the old model WB. No one really uses that model anymore for anything but bowfishing, as thats what it is marketed for these days. I want to see a slow motion video of the updated model, brown bristles instead of all black. Also that videowas put out by PSE to push sales of one of their rests andwe all know how PSEwould never do anything to make their product look better....right.:eek: Lets see......use the all black, heavy bristles, no support ring, loosen up the Allens a bit and "let her fly!!" (JMHO):) |
RE: WB; not accurate?
ORIGINAL: BigJ71 ORIGINAL: Washington Hunter The problem I have with that video TFOX, is that its the old model WB. No one really uses that model anymore for anything but bowfishing, as thats what it is marketed for these days. I want to see a slow motion video of the updated model, brown bristles instead of all black. Also that videowas put out by PSE to push sales of one of their rests andwe all know how PSEwould never do anything to make their product look better....right.:eek: Lets see......use the all black, heavy bristles, no support ring, loosen up the Allens a bit and "let her fly!!" (JMHO):) The test is done on a machine that is fixed which we all know that is nothow the rest will be used so alot of thatwhipping of the bristleswill change. |
RE: WB; not accurate?
ORIGINAL: TFOX Don't misunderstand,the video was only to reference how the arrow kicks up,that is what I have found happens on the newer models. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EC6UEXaEwZo&feature=related |
RE: WB; not accurate?
ORIGINAL: atlasman ORIGINAL: TFOX Don't misunderstand,the video was only to reference how the arrow kicks up,that is what I have found happens on the newer models. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EC6UEXaEwZo&feature=related |
RE: WB; not accurate?
ORIGINAL: atlasman ORIGINAL: TFOX Don't misunderstand,the video was only to reference how the arrow kicks up,that is what I have found happens on the newer models. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EC6UEXaEwZo&feature=related IMO,the fallaway is a better choice over a wb but that is mine and if it isn't yours and it works well for you,fine. |
RE: WB; not accurate?
ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter ORIGINAL: atlasman ORIGINAL: TFOX Don't misunderstand,the video was only to reference how the arrow kicks up,that is what I have found happens on the newer models. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EC6UEXaEwZo&feature=related Check this one out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNI9BG87qcI |
RE: WB; not accurate?
I don'tthink you could prove that about any piece of equipment with a person shooting it.......especially over a short time..........way too subjective. |
RE: WB; not accurate?
Did you know that if you go on a all day hunt sitting in a blind or on a stalk you should take peanut butter sandwiches for luchbecause the peanut butter won't go bad in the heat. Again thanks washington for the test showing us that the WB is accurate out to and passed 20yrds.
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RE: WB; not accurate?
ORIGINAL: atlasman ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter ORIGINAL: atlasman ORIGINAL: TFOX Don't misunderstand,the video was only to reference how the arrow kicks up,that is what I have found happens on the newer models. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EC6UEXaEwZo&feature=related Check this one out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNI9BG87qcI It'd be interesting to dulicate an overhead shot with the same arrow and bow setup out of the WB No matter what these videos are just cool to watch:D |
RE: WB; not accurate?
So I've been shooting with the WB the last few days and I have to say I'm fairly impressed. My groups are consistant and have shrunk slightly from what they were in the pictures. The only negative feedback I have so far is that they're tearing the hell out of my wraps. The whiskers are scratching the color off of them pretty badly. The rest is performing as it should though.
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RE: WB; not accurate?
ORIGINAL: Washington Hunter So I've been shooting with the WB the last few days and I have to say I'm fairly impressed. My groups are consistant and have shrunk slightly from what they were in the pictures. The only negative feedback I have so far is that they're tearing the hell out of my wraps. The whiskers are scratching the color off of them pretty badly. The rest is performing as it should though. WH u got a 50 or 60 yard pin to test that one out?? |
RE: WB; not accurate?
I do, but I don't have the distance here at home.
I'll have to wait until I can get out to our property before I can test it out that far. |
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