RE: This is why its called hunting and not getting!
 

A tip of the hat to GregH. His comment is spot on!

One must know and respect his effective range. Under all conidtions, you must be able to, at least, arrow a nine inch paper plate 100% of the time. When you can do that, you have determined your effective range. It will certainly be an individual thing...

RE: This is why its called hunting and not getting!
 

Is there such a thing as a relaxed deer? I don't know. I know for a fact that I had a "relaxed" deer drop enough to cause a high "nick" on his back at 19 yards from a bow shooting 285fps. He was feeding, head down, foreleg forward and at the shot, he dropped enough to "duck" the arrow. ON FILM, when you play it in slow motion, the arrow would have took the top of his heart. They can drop at a shot no matter what the speed, no matter what the distance.

Regarding 40+ yard shots, I honestly feel that deer are LESS likely to "jump/duck" the string/arrow at farther distances when "relaxed".

I've taken 5 shots at deer at or over 40 (42 being the longest) yards in 26 seasons. All resulting in a double lung/heart shots on 4 of the 5 and the 5th was a pefect shot. The arrow went exactly where I was aiming, a touch low. I thought he'd react and didn't. I sent my arrow nicking his underchest exactly where I was aiming. I'll never hold low again. He'd been my best buck to date. He was extremely nervous and never heard the bow/arrow.

Yardages are subject to ethics, conditions, abilitiy and the temperature of the deer. I've shot more 3D courses than I could honestly count right now, sorry to sound arrogant but I know my abilities and my limitations. I've missed more deer under 30 yards and only ever missed one over 30 yards and that was that pefect shot on that buck. I say perfect cause the arrow went where I wanted it too. I think I calm myself to take the farther shots and try to hard on the close ones. I've made the statement before that I'd sooner shoot a deer at 30-35 yards than I would at 20 yards because of many variables.

I agree with NY Bowhunter as well as BTBowhunters threads as well. I think they are very well put.

When I went elk hunting, my hunting partner and I religiously practiced out to 75 yards with Muzzy's, placing them into the 10 ring of a McKenzie bull elk every time. I don't know if I would have taken that shot on a live animal. I'm glad I was not put to the test, I killed my bull at 33 yards. He missed 4 bulls under 25 yards. He's an incredible shot but nerves and excitement plays more into shooting than ability at the moment of truth. He claimed to not being able to remember looking into the peep.

More than ability comes experience. Some can claim to hit a pie plate in their back yard everytime but may have no business shooting 40 yards at a live animal. They may never had the pressure doing that exact same thing. That means alot.

Use your best judgement, take only those shots you KNOW you can make and not THINK or HOPE you can make. Get out and shoot 3D as much as you can, that time and money allows. 3D WILL make you a better hunter.

Every year I'll continue to buy my hunting license, I wish I could buy a Getting license but PA doesnt' offer them. [8D]

RE: This is why its called hunting and not getting!
 

Good post Schultzy.

I don't shoot traditional to necessarily take more deer. It is not a need of mine. But there are a lot of people out there that are the complete opposite.

By comparision, I had a 160 class pass by at 30 yards this year past year. A kid the very next day took a 40 yard shot on him with a rage broadhead and his new BowTech. I actually saw the deer cross a field after being hit. The hit was perfect, but the kid only got a few inches of penetration and only took out one lung. I helped him track the deer for about a mile and the kid went back the next day to follow up. Never found him. Iasked him why he took that far of a shot with such a large mechanical and he told me that all his friends and a salesman told him to use it. Weird part was he actually had some fixedblades in his quiver. :eek::eek::eek:

RE: This is why its called hunting and not getting!
 

I personally don't think anybody or there comments are wrong on here. Every deer is different and place that same deer in a different spot say with the wind blowing away from him or lite rain maybe they just don't hear the shot as fast. I know we shoot year round we never stop shooting and some of the guys I shoot with are awesome shots on targets. But when it comes to deer they are different shooters, weather it's buck fever or something else they just can't hit the broadside of a barn when it's a deer. But they can shoot targets out to 50 yards and hit a5 inch circle everytime. So deer, hunter and conditions are all right answers. I have shot deer at 40 yards several times but I switched from a recurve to a compound when I got real serious about hunting big bucks because I was only confident out to 20yards with my recurve so I wanted the extra, and the funny thing is since I switched to a compound I have killed 5 biggins and not one has been over 20 yards.. Walt

RE: This is why its called hunting and not getting!
 

It's silly imo for anyone to take a shot just b/c a salesman told them they could do it. Consider this analogy, in the right hands, most high powered rifles are capable of killing an animal 500+ yds away, many would claim much further than that, but should you take that shot just b/c your equipment is capable?? Notunless that distance has been practiced religiously.Hail mary shots are just that - a prayer hoping to be answered.

Same with archery, it all comes down to experience, confidence and many hours of practicing in realistic hunting conditions, i.e., from a treestand in hunting clothes at 3d targets, not on a range where everything is perfect. This is done to determine your effective range, as has been stated.

I was hunting for does last weekend on a friends farm and had one stay on a food plot for 30 minutes, never had a clue I was around. She never came closer than 43 yards so I never attempted a shot. Others with more experience would have, but not me. Could have I made it? Maybe, I am fairly accurate out that far, but fairly is the key word. I'd rather not take a chance until I get more confidence at that range.

RE: This is why its called hunting and not getting!
 

Is it ethical to shoot over 400 yds with a rifle? Some, not a 30-30 but a 7 mag heck yeah. A 300 ft/sec is very capable of shooting 40 yd. You opt to shoot a recurve and a max of 25 yds. He shoots something else and "should" know his limatations. His decision. I sure hope he wasnt hunting out great state on the 3 of Jan.

RE: This is why its called hunting and not getting!
 

Good post.

RE: This is why its called hunting and not getting!
 

You have to wonder about the arrow weight in this instance and if a heavier arrow would have made a difference.

Like others have already said, salesman can say whatever they want it is the hunter's responsibility to be proficient enough with his weapon of choice. Not understanding a weapons limitations, that includes the arrows too for bowhunters and ammunition for firearms, leads to poor shot choices.

Does anyone think that mandatory bowhunter education before getting a bowhunting license would help with these types of problems?

RE: This is why its called hunting and not getting!
 

I think a lot of people have to realize that there are a TON of clueless people in this world. Whether they hunt, kayak, or crochet, they have no clue and depend on the persons selling them the equipment to point them in the right direction and tell them what they can and cannot do. While you and I may take a sales persons comment and think he’s a dork, another person will view it as gospel. You can’t expect everyone heading afield to research and thoroughly pour over every detail of what they are getting into. Which brings us to the mandatory education. Which I am on the fence of. I do feel it is a great idea, but I struggle with the logistics of widespread implementation and subject matter to cover. But that is a different topic.

So you take a person who only hears the ads, the shows, the sales person and according to that, they have a tool that can take animals at great distances. But what they don’t know is that there is a VERY limited set of conditions for that to be true. So it is no wonder that many arrows are launched that never should be.

A lot on here have the right direction that numerous factors go into determining shot selection and distance. I lean to the short side when it comes to deer, but heading out west for an elk, I extend that quite a bit and feel completely comfortable doing so. What is tough to get across to people are all those factors hat should be considered, and even still, sometimes it cannot be completely defined because experience weighs in. Ability to read deer and just “know” the situation takes time to learn and varies from person to person.

RE: This is why its called hunting and not getting!
 

Yes...... although relaxed for a deer may seem hyper paranoid for most! [:-]