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12-17-2007, 09:43 AM
#93
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: North Lima Ohio & Clarion Pa
Posts: 6,453
RE: New Jersey BRUISERS !!!!
WOW I guess I need to tune in on the weekends. I always miss the good ones..where was this when I was bored on Thursday-Friday..lol
Speaking as a PA hunter.. My family has had a camp in Clarion since 1968. In our hey-day we had as many as 14-16 hunters. Sadly as time marched on we are down to a precious 6, hard-core, year in and year-out hunters. Sure a few friends or friends of friends may drop in for a year or two but our 6 man core is strong! As a group we LOVE AR. We have seen more and much better Bucks as a result. Our camp record fell
the first year of AR..so it cannot be claimed to have been a benefit of AR. We took a big 8 & 10 point last year, my so-so 7pt would have been a whopper in previous years
From my obesrvation and talking to the local Hunt Club that is right up the road from our Camp (we attend their dinner, by invitation,yearly, the Sunday before Gun Season) Most like the AR. The complaints seem to stem from the mass killing of antlerless deer. The days of seeing 60-80 deer opening day, are replaced by numbers in the teens or less. Yet, most of these hunters complaining, have a pocketful of antlerless tags.
The Tuesday of Gun Season we just got my cousins buck back to the truck, and the Game Warden came by and stopped. After checking the buck we gabbed about the "over-all kill" he said what "Kill". He said numbers are way down, No one wants to go into the woods andhunt anymore. When I told him of 3 gut piles at the corner of the road. He said "I know" I made them gut the 3 does there. A group of hunters were shooting deer from the truck. He made them gut them and then took the deer and replaced the deer with a fine! He said the "needy" will eat good this year!
Speaking as a PA hunter.. My family has had a camp in Clarion since 1968. In our hey-day we had as many as 14-16 hunters. Sadly as time marched on we are down to a precious 6, hard-core, year in and year-out hunters. Sure a few friends or friends of friends may drop in for a year or two but our 6 man core is strong! As a group we LOVE AR. We have seen more and much better Bucks as a result. Our camp record fell
the first year of AR..so it cannot be claimed to have been a benefit of AR. We took a big 8 & 10 point last year, my so-so 7pt would have been a whopper in previous yearsFrom my obesrvation and talking to the local Hunt Club that is right up the road from our Camp (we attend their dinner, by invitation,yearly, the Sunday before Gun Season) Most like the AR. The complaints seem to stem from the mass killing of antlerless deer. The days of seeing 60-80 deer opening day, are replaced by numbers in the teens or less. Yet, most of these hunters complaining, have a pocketful of antlerless tags.
The Tuesday of Gun Season we just got my cousins buck back to the truck, and the Game Warden came by and stopped. After checking the buck we gabbed about the "over-all kill" he said what "Kill". He said numbers are way down, No one wants to go into the woods andhunt anymore. When I told him of 3 gut piles at the corner of the road. He said "I know" I made them gut the 3 does there. A group of hunters were shooting deer from the truck. He made them gut them and then took the deer and replaced the deer with a fine! He said the "needy" will eat good this year!
12-17-2007, 10:36 AM
#94
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Phoenixville, PA USA
Posts: 5,541
RE: New Jersey BRUISERS !!!!
Gr8, very good post. In my camp we are seeing the same thing. The last few years since ARs we have seen a drastic improvement in the deer we are taking from our camp. My dad is a 2-3 day a year hunter anymore and in the last 3 years he has taken 2 of the biggest bucks of his life in nearly 50 years of hunting. ARs are definitely having an impact, and to that point and DropTine's original point the earn-a-buck and ARs in certain zones have had a great impact in NJ as well. When I first started hunting NJ you would see some 2.5 year olds and they were good bucks. Now you seen the same number of 3.5 year olds as you did 2.5 year olds when I started and they are some very nice bucks. Unfortunately, for me they are a year wiser and I don't seem to be getting any smarter.
Atlas, I have a legitimate question that is not intended to start/restart a fight. Of those 50+ hunters you were talking to, did any of them mention how many doe tags they filled when the state increased the allotment? If they didn't get/fill any, then I truly feel bad for them, but I find that many of the guys that complain that they don't see any deer couldn't stay off the trigger when the state made the seasons concurrent and increased the number of antlerless tags.
Atlas, I have a legitimate question that is not intended to start/restart a fight. Of those 50+ hunters you were talking to, did any of them mention how many doe tags they filled when the state increased the allotment? If they didn't get/fill any, then I truly feel bad for them, but I find that many of the guys that complain that they don't see any deer couldn't stay off the trigger when the state made the seasons concurrent and increased the number of antlerless tags.
12-17-2007, 12:44 PM
#96
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Phoenixville, PA USA
Posts: 5,541
RE: New Jersey BRUISERS !!!!
I agree with what you are saying and that is true of ARs in just about all areas. I know guys in PA in 4 point to a side areasthat are seeing 3.5+ year old 6 points that are downright massive, but can't shoot them. The spots I hunt in NJ aren't suffering from that though. I haven't seen any 2.5 year old spikes or 4 points. The areas I hunt have decent genetics I guess. In areas that aren't as fortunate I could see where what you said being a problem.
12-17-2007, 01:05 PM
#98
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Hughesville, PA USA
Posts: 18,322
RE: New Jersey BRUISERS !!!!
Droptine, I think your misinformed about whitetails. Rare do you ever find a 2.5 year old spike. I've hunted 26 bow seasons and 28 rifle seasons and I've never seen a 2.5 year old spike. Are you under the mindset that once a spike, always a spike? That's not so.
That statement tells me you think a doe is not bred at 1.5 years old. That couldn't further from the truth AND,
your assuming she was bred to begin with which isn't always the case in an over populated doe herd plus, your assuming 6 the next year means she would have given birth to female offspring and not male twins who would have been bred but in your previous statement you said they didn't have offspring for two seasons. That's contradictory.
If you shoot her doe fawn, you wont notice a difference in numbers because she wouldnt have dropped a fawn for 2 seasons.
If you pop that mature do, you take 3 deer away for next year and 6 the following year.
12-17-2007, 01:10 PM
#99
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 21,043
RE: New Jersey BRUISERS !!!!
If you shoot her doe fawn, you wont notice a difference in numbers because she wouldnt have dropped a fawn for 2 seasons.