I've been thinking about this a little bit and I'm only using jeff as an example since everyone knows his situation.

When does the pressure for proper herd management cross the line and take away from the enjoyment of the hunting experience?

While as hunters we are regarded as stewards of the land, when does that situation go out the window? Can a guy just go out and hunt, shoot a few deer and call it a season, and not feel guilty that he didn't do everything in his power to fix the herd?

Now I'm not going to the other extreme of the fellow who hunts an area loaded with does and a few bucks. Then goes and shoots 1st young buck past, and would never EVER consider taking a doe. To him there can't be enough.

I'm just talking about the guy who knows he's got lots of deer but jsut goes out shoots 1-2 does and tries for a decent buck and calls it a season. Is he beinga poor steward? Or is he just a guy happy to be hunting?

I think Jeff has answered this question several times. I won't speak for him but I did wonder the same thing.

I can't imagine ever being in that situation. I think he's counted something like 88 deer sightings this year. I'm amazed every time I hear his stories. It just seems impossible to me that there are so many deer in one area.

rybo...One thing I've noticed since getting on several different Internet forums is that it seems to me, most guys didn't grow up in the country hunting the family farm and many didn't get into hunting until later in life...I'm the exception, the family farms that I hunt have been in the family for 40 years or so, so I was hunting them in my early years...Starting with a .22 and squirrels, I still think this is the way to learn to hunt...

I didn't shoot many does until the 70s...I always wanted a buck...Sitting in a tree one morning over Thanksgiving break, I had a herd of does come by, 15-20...I enjoy deer meat and that's when I changed...I dropped the lead doe and the rest milled around, I took another...I've been doing the same ever since...Fortunately I'm from a big family and we have 12-15 or so family members and friends that like to hunt...Typically we kill 40-50 deer a year from 3 different farms, none go to waste and I have some fond memories of my nieces and nephews killing their first deer...

I have plenty of help now as my nieces and nephews are getting older...Back in the 80s, I killed a ton of deer, we had permits and I can tell you, yes it can get to be quite a chore...To top it off, we had a farmer we leased the land to that would spot light deer at night because we had 40-50 eating his crops...
We have since changed farmers and we consult with him as to which farms need the most attention...Now that we have the herd in check, it's gotten easier....

It quickly turned to work for me one year. I was hunting a farm and the surrounding landowners had went in together and got a DMAP permit and tags. They all named me on the permits.
I was somewhat new to bowhunting but I took 16 deer that year with my bow and another 3 with a rifle. All from one stand.
It almost ruined me.

I don't regard that season as hunting, as much as just shooting. Since then I've left that area. I just couldn't keep killing deer after deer.
None went to waste, they all were consumed, but that is just too much like work.
The landowners were mad if you let anything walk, they wanted them all dead. (I think I could have taken 150 out of that area with bucks being sat at 6 and does being almost unlimited at 144.)
It wasn't uncommon to pop 2 or 3 in a sitting.

Now I will say it helped me develop as a bow hunter. Not all my shots were perfect to begin with, the deer were of course wild and could go anywhere after the shot, and I learned a lot about tracking also. So it was a give and take situation for me but in the end I almost just didn't want to go hunting anymore. Luckily I quickly overcame that with the beginning of the next season.

I would counter your question with this one:

Is herd managment hunting or grooming deer to ones specifications?

It think it's the latter and to me it looks and smells like work.

Tom

Its not an option for me. Due to hunters in nearby areas and a couple guys who hunt the same properties as me, I don't have to try to make sure of the ratio of bucks to does. Too may brown/down hunters in the surrounding areas do make me work towards only mature bucks and does though.

Shooting deer is voluntary. If a person makes a personal goal to shoot X number of deer and it starts turning into "work", it's time to re-evaluate your goals. I've done this to myself with archery and hunting. When I start to feel wary and burned out, I ask myself if I'd rather be back at my real job or continue with my mission. So far, I've always stuck with the archery or hunting goals. Something you love to do may be tough and demanding but it's not work. Gospel.

I would say when you aren't really hunting and are basically just being an exterminator............I would not take any enjoyment from that whatsoever.

"proper herd management" is a myth IMO........just a politically correct way of cloaking our selfish motives.


Yes.............I have been doing it for 20 years.

I think there is a fine line sometimes.It definitely needs to be enjoyable and it always is,I love the woods and mountains and any time spent in them is pleasure for me.I do feel a responsibility to take doe's out of certain area's.Normally for me it comes down to time and family and work responsibilities.
I am normally a three deer a year hunter.So the considerations for me may be different.In theory I can kill 5 deer in state and two out of state this year.It will be interesting to see where the number ends up.The right two would more than make me happy!

rybo I appreciate you asking this.....for you perfectly described what I feel I'm up against. I personally feel like I've let the herd down if I don't take out a doe on every opportunity. I wish I felt differently. If I let a doe walk......she'll be eating food that the others will most definitely need.....until I do take her....or she's taken out via another way.

It's like "work", yes. Do I still enjoy going hunting? Yes. I do, for now. But...I know I'm missing out on seeing some really cool stuff. My greatest day afield was last year.....on a day in which I never reached for the bow. I think I ended up seeing 23 deer, that day. Today.....if that scene unfolded.....I'd likely have a story to tell of seeing 3-6 deer......and having one shot opportunity. Trust me....I'd like to have the former.

But how do I justify letting deer walk? It's an honest question. No one is going to attempt to manage this herd.....unless I do it (no one else has the chance).

It's a double edged sword.

Would I get any enjoyment out of taking a juvenille buck? Nope. But I don't begrudge others who would. In a perfect world.....I'll answer the other thread I had by saying.....I WISH I could wait ......no shots.....until I found THE deer I wanted. I hope my question in the other thread was worded with that sentiment in mind. There's afine line, though. It's still nice to know you COULD take a deer.....whenever you wanted to. I live in a place that affords me that.