My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

Around the shop I shoot out of.....there's a guy that's a real good 3D shooter....and a hunter....and we compete all season long on the range. We were talking about things over lunch....and I was talking about having a couple of guys I know over to help thin some does. He said he'd be glad to help.

Great!!

So...I told him...."you know it's strictly does, right"? OK...he says....but if a big buck comes through Im shootin him.

My shop owner is there, too.....and agrees with this guy (I'd already invited my shop owner to hunt a couple times with me, too). I'm totally flabbergasted. Am I missing something? Neither will get an invitation, now.

I can promise you.....if you asked me to (all these guys would be doing is either WALKING to my woods....or about a 2 mi. drive) come help you....I could either decline (with no hard feelings from you).....or accept (with no hard feelings from me).

You would have thought I'd pinched their wives on the ass with the reception I got at my "rule". Is this uncommon (what I am asking of them)?

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

Jeff, I told you before that's gonna be a problem. At least these guys were honest (albeit they shouldn't get that invitation) It's gonna be a bigger problem when someone says I 'll abide by your rules and then puts down a buck anyway.

What you ask of them is fair and should be followed, but it will take an honest friend (that you know well)to believe it will happen.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

I feel your right on your decision to take back your invitation. You invited them to thin the herd by taking doe only. No where did you mention anything about taking a good buck if you see one. It ticks me off that someone would take advantage of this great offer that you are putting up. And to answer you other question,no your not being selfish.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

Yeah, that would have ticked me off too. If it's your land and they can't follow the rules, than maybe they should hunt somewhere else.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

I agree with all the above comments, especially gr8's

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

I personally wouldn't invite someone to my place and tell them that they couldn't shoot a buck that I would shoot. I wouldn't feel right about doing that. If I didn't want them to shoota buck,then I wouldn't invite them at all.

I may invite someone with the purpose of shooting does and will place them accordingly on the property, but if a "shooter" buck by my definition comes by and they have a tag for him,feel free to take a poke at him.

Again, this would only apply to my family property or another place I was paying for exclusive rights to.

Just MHO.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

Were they on a teamfrom the Drury videos?

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

that would drive me insane. i dont think i would invite them unless they gave me some kind of promise that they wouldnt. i dont blame you for not inviting them. i dont understand why people cant be happy with something thats given to them for free. if they were putting alot of money into it i would understand.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

If they were your BEST friendsI would make an exception for the buck deal, but the others are there for does only to help you out and get them meat. Then again you cant stop anyone from shooting a buck as long as they have the tag. Its just a side effect that may happen with inviting others out to shoot does. Just be careful which stand you put them on;).

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

They are out of line!! You are a cool person in my book to even allow these "guys" to hunt for some does. It is a slap in the face to admit that they would take a buck even if you didn't give them permission to do so.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

Jeff I don't think your asking too much at all, on the contrary, it's a generous offer when someone opens their land to others even if it's for doe. You have a doe issue, not a buck issue and the help you asked for was for doe only. If someone cannot abide by that, they are the selfish ones, not you. You have a mission and an objective, having everyone pass does in hopes of a buck is not helping you in the least. I cannot wait to help you out in that respect.;)

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

Matt:

I think that's awfully generous of you. In fact...it's more generous than I am....but I'v emade no bones about what I will and will not allow my guests to take. if you know the rules going in.......why not abide by them happily or happily decline. No problems.

I can tell you with 100% sincerity.....that I would absolutely shoot ONLY does if someone asked me to.....and I'd give them snapshots of the bucks on the property I saw for their scouting purposes.

No problem, whatsoever.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

I definately think that what you asked was fair. You invited them on a doe hunt and they pretty much said "if I come I'll shoot what I want." If I were you the invatation would be closed.

On the other hand if this is during the regular archery season and they have not harvested a buck, it might be difficult to get someone to come to hunt does, when they can go some where else and possibly see as many does and still have an opportunity at a buck. I personaly would decline your offer as I enjoy hunting does, but like knowing that If a trouphy went by that I could shoot it. Maybe you could invite someone that has filled their buck tag.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

I agree with Rick, but it is your playground so they deff. should follow your rules.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

I've got a son and two friends that will hunt the land with me.....but I mentioned the possibility of coming into my woods with some others....to take the burden of killing so many does off of myself (My son has yet to take his first deer with the bow).

My friends Mark...and Rob....can shoot ANYTHING THEY WANT. I trust them...and they know what I'm trying to do.

Ditto my son.....anything he wants.

Looks like it'll be just us 4.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

Exactly.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

It's called integrity.You made a generous invitation and explained the terms.It is really a yes or no thank you response.If they were to say no thank you because they didn't feel they had the restraint not to shoot a buck then fine.
Your land,or your access,or your scouting and effort,your rules.That is not selfish.Someones friendship and trust is worth a lot more than a deer!

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

And I also see your point of view as well. If you were to invite me to shoot does and let me know up front that all bucks were off limits I wouldn't be offended. If I can get Rob upto my placewhen he still has a buck tagleft (unlikely [8D]), I hope he shoots a slammer.

I guess the reason I have this view point is because many times I have been fortunate enough to shoot the biggest buck off of others property in years past, and I really appreciated the opportunity to do so. I have only had exclusive access to any single piece of property for about 5 years now and before that my hunting was all done on patches people were nice enough to let me on.

I am probably a bit more particular than you as well about handing out invitations...................which could be selfish from others perspective as well. ;)

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

You've told them its a doe only hunt.......thats fair, especially since you, your son, and two friends will be hunting there regularly.

One last thought, I've learned over the years to be extra cautious to whom I ask to hunt with me. A friend of mine who I introduced to bowhunting went with me a few times last season, but never once has he asked me to tag along with him on properties he can hunt, though I did help him trail the first deer he shot.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

I now would call you something else......wise.;)

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

Jeff,

I think if they accept your invitation they should have the common decency to abide by your rules. To answer the question about being selfish......

On the one hand I can see your side of it,you're the one who tookthe initiative to provide a better habitat for the deer in your area to browse in. I'm not sure so correct me if I'm wrong but I believe you planted a food plot etc...

Includedwith this you did (and continue to do) all of the scouting and planning needed to get onto the big bucks that you now know are onthe property you hunt come fall. With all of that time and effort put into it and by the tone of this post you feel (I'm speculating now) you should be the one to hunt the big bucks.

Is it selfish? This all depends on the person you ask. For me I would say yes it is. I say this because I too ask friends and family to hunt one of my spots that I have sole permission to hunt. I (like you) ask them to come and help me thin out the does so that the overall population can be reduced (way too many deer). I also scout this area and continue to do so. I have also (hard to believe here in Illinois:D)seen very big antlered deer on the property and I too am in the process of setting up a strategy to hunt them come fall.

However where we differ is I don't do anything to the land to promote the deer in any wayto say on it or to grow any bigger than they would naturally. We also differ because if I ask someone to hunt with me even if the mission was to take does I would never tell them not to take a shot at a big buck or any buck for that matter if they get the opportunity to do so, it's just not how I am. If my friend or brother-in-law shoots one, I'm nothing but happy for them, even if it's the slammer I've been looking for myself.

I would suggest either asking someone who you can trust to abide by your rules, to come hunt with you, or don't let anyone huntit.

With all due respect, for me it does come across as selfish.

EDIT: Just so I'm clear, I feel what the guys that you invited said to you was way out of line and selfish on their parts by telling you they would shoot at the bucks even when you asked them not to.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

If a farmer gave them permission to hunt his farm but only take does would they react the same way? I have heard of many farmers doing just that, because they know the buck hunters will be passing up on all the deer they want killed just to get a chance at a good buck. Rude and presumptious on their part.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

Well with in you limits there Gmmat. It is a bit selfish on their part if anything. Good luck

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

Totally my sentiments.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

If you live in Ohio close to Columbus I would be happy to take a doe or two for ya. If I couldn't use the meat I could always donate it to that charity. But if a big one walks by I might shoot it ..... with my camera.


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RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

I have 2 places with currentopen invites to go and shoot all the does that I can tag... Great areas - trophy managed... But, even though both landownerssaid specifically that I can shoot a big buck if I see it.... I know them, and I know that it would be a hot-button issueif I did. They protect their bucks for their family in rifle season, and I respect that.

So, with that in mind, I don't bowhunt there - even though I know I can. I'm just not about to pass up a 140" buck.

I choose not to put myself in a position to burn a bridge orcause hard feelingsover a deer carcass. That's just not how I roll.

So I keep in touch... Eventually, I'll get an unequivocal invitation to come out there and hunt however I wanna hunt and shoot what I wanna shoot- but until I can feel 100% comfortable in hunting on my own terms, and be 100% sure that nobody is gonna harbor any bad blood if I take out one of the big boys - I keep on politely declining.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

BigJ(John):

No secret I value your opinion on manymatters...as I do this one. The problem, here, is ME......you're right. But....the problem is I asked the wrong people (IMO).

Like I said....(and I've told my friends Mark and Rob)....I'd be totally happy if they took ANY DEER that tickles their fancy off the property....because they understand and respect what I'm trying to do. I also respect their judgement.

I think the lapse was in my judgement of expecting some people to respect what I'm doing......when it's not in them to do so.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

Jeff, i am sort of in the position of those guys. one of my professors has a deer problem(according to her...shes an Ecology and Wildlife Management professor so....) and asked anyone who wanted to take a doe to come talk to her. i did last year. only thing was she was across a highway from where i had a tag for. this season though, im getting a tag for her zone...she said to take does only.

i hear her land holds some nice bucks and a pile of them at that...it might kill me to not take a shot at one...but if i want to hunt her land i have to obide by HER rules. i would like to take a doe just to get one under the belt with the bow...and dad and i put no venison in the freezer last year so id like to get dad some sausage this year lol..maybe after i take a doe she will come back and say i can take a buck...who knows. maybe we will find out. shes a heck of a lady and really liked me...we will see...if not though, im still hunting under her rules. shes even nice enough to show us where to take stand. she said 1 guy came over last fall and it took him a couple hours because he showed up late at a wierd time...

i wouldnt think about breaking landowners rules..

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

Mauser:

Good to hear from ya, Cap'n;).

There's another example........I told Mauser to get himself here, last Fall....and shoot ANYTHING he wanted.

Like I said.....I made a poor judgement in who to ask (this time...not last...lol).

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

GMMAT,

I'm not sure how long you have been archery hunting but I suspect it hasn't been very long. I'm not trying to be a smart allic when I say this but you are learning the hard way.

One thing you will learn quickly is that there are many, many guys out there that will take advantage of you. They might be friends, coworkers, brothers, cousins, etc...it doesn't matter. There are just those that will take advantage of a good hunting spot and you.

They'll sneek in your areas when you can't hunt. They'll bring friends to your area that you didn't invite. They'll break self imposed rules that they agreed to earlier. They'll poach deer. They'll hunt out of your stand. They'll purposely try to get deer to avoid your stand. They'll tell everyone where you hunt. They'll blab about the big buck you saw. etc...etc...etc...

Your best bet is to keep that place to yourself, son and very true friends. Do your best to solve the doe problem with those few people.

Inviting too many guys will ruin your hot spot. Trust me.

I've had it happen several times. I realize you are just trying to be friendly and unselfish by inviting these guys.It will just lead to problems if they hunt. You already know that by the feeling you are having in your gut right now.

It is tuff to try to be a nice guy and then to find out that you were taken advantage of. Take back the invitation and don't feel guilty about doing it.

Just learn that when you have a good spot, it is better to just keep quiet about it.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

I agree with you...my property...I choose what you shoot...don't like it...don't come. You might (not to say you didn't) give them an explaination as to why you don't want any bucks harvested. And then state again this is for does only...NO bucks! Take it or leave it. Me...I would enjoy a hunt like that.

Reid

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

I wouldn't get too worked up over it......I would simply take back the invitation. I'm sure you can find a handfull of people who would be delighted to be invited to take part in a doe hunt. How about some of your sons firends? Or perhaps another hunter from your club or proshop who hasn't put a ton of deer on the ground. It is the best practice a youth (or veteran for that matter) can get. I understand you would obviously have closer friends come hunt with you, but if they don't follow the rules, then they can't expect to get invited.

If I think back to when I was starting to bowhunt...I was dying to take a doe. When I finally had enough, I did...and I was afraid to tell the land owner because he didn't look at balance.....he simply looked at it as killing a doe is like killing three deer. Needless to say, that was the last doe I took off that land and I was forced to hunt strickly bucks. If I reverse that to the point where the land owner asked me to take a couple doe, I would have had a hay-day and gotten in some good practice. Preach to them about scent control and ethical shots and you will have a happy kid while thinning your doe herd.

Bottom line....if an adult can't follow rules, you don't want them there.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

I wouldn't be to hard on yourself about this,it's difficult to determine what someones response will be and sometimes (like in this case) it's a surprise. Again I thinkthey were way out of line to openly dismiss what your wishes were.

I'vebeen in a similar situation where I asked someone to hunt with methinking he was a honest and ethical hunter only to find out later (the hard way) he wasn't. Needless to say hewill never be invited to hunt with me again.

Where we differ is that I would not ask someone (anyone) to hunt with meandgive them restrictions on what they can shoot.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

Hey Mauser,
If you help her out this year with her doe issue, respect her rules and shoot only a doe, respect her property by leaving it better than you found it and be thankful and gracious with her then you may have a good chance to be invited to hunt for buck in the coming seasons.

I'd love to have the chance for a place to hunt anytime i wanted even if it's for doe only. I've been able to hunt private land but only on rare occasions. I was always very thankful and always offered up the meat from the first deer since the owner could not hunt anymore.

Would I like to one day get a big buck? Certainly, but reality for me where I am able to hunt is that a big buck is very rare. I just enjoy being out there and feeling that excitement when i see a deer, any deer

Oh and GMMAT..It's your property, your rules. If someone doesn't like the game they don't have to play. Inviting someone to have the opportunity to hunt doe is very generous.
When I hunt squirrel i don't shoot a deer just cause it walked by. The rules for that day (season) was no deer so i follow the rules. period.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

Jeff ..... I concur with the majority here ..... if they don'y like it .... they don't have to hunt there .... there is a difference between good friends and aquaintances .... I personally DO see telling an aquaintance to only shoot ___________, (fill in blank with whatever standard you want), but close friends are different, as you have already stated ....

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

John....As of now....me neither. Invitations will just be scarce.;) Thanks.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

I wouldn't talk about it anymore, or just say you changed your mind. BTW- I prefer thinning does with a helicopter and a mounted 50 cal!

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

Rules are rules. What is so hard to understand. Its also called RESPECT.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

Maybe the problem is in who you asked. I can't remember, but I think you said you would let a good friend shoot a buck if they saw it. Why would you invite someone who is not your good friend to come hunt on your propery, whether for does or bucks. If you want to go hunting with aquantences(sp?) go with them to a crummy piece of public land. Otherwise when you go to your spot ,(fishing or hunting) you might find them parked in your honeyhole with one of their close friends.[:@][:@]
Sorry just venting. Maybe I should start a thread about that.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

No problems, guys....though it's easy to say they're being disrespectful....."I" probably learned the bigger lesson. No biggies........

Thanks for helping out.