RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

I like Big John's answers.Personally I would make a distinction between close friends or relatives versus an acquaintance or more casual friend.
Like others have said unfortunately you have to be very careful as to who you open up your hunting area's to.I have one friend that I bow hunt with.We set many stands and either one of us can use any stand that we choose to and not have one ounce of concern about petty things.
I rifle hunt out west with four other friends and I would scout my butt off to put any one of them in position to kill a great buck.The reason for that is they are close friends and I know they would do the same for me.
To summarize,there would be some folks that would have no restrictions and some that would.Very likely though the one's that would have restrictions wouldn't be invited at all.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

To me, I guess it depends on whether you consider these guys (and they consider you) "friend" or not, as to whether I think it's selfish, or not.

If these are just some guys you know and you want to engage their service at killing some doe(s), ina hunt in which you may or may not join them, then I can understand your point.

However,as a friend, I don't think youshould ever put restrictions on another, if the only reason to do it was so that you could possibly have an opportunity at the same animal you asked your "friend" to pass on. What's more important? A friend? or a deer???

I had a good friend growing up whose family farm bordered my family farm. We hunted and fished together a lot growing up and although deer weren't extremely numerous on our farms in those days, we had both killed deer on the other's farm with no problem. We used to talk as young adults about getting another place jointly together. My friend graduated from college and started making real money before I did. He went with his brothers (who I also hunted with a lot, back in "the day") and bought some land. He called me up right after they closed on it and I expressed how happy I was for him.

Then he said " In a year or two you can come hunt with us on this new property...after we get our (their) "spots" picked out." I said "ok, sure" but later decided "forget that". After thinking about it for a while, I asked myself what kind of friend would say that. In the grand scheme of things, who cares who gets what spot? god forbid his friend should have a better "spot" than him. Like our "spots" had to be permanently assigned or something.

I ended up buying some other land jointly with some other guys I know as a kind of club. We are each allowed to takeone guest per hunt. The first yearwe ever hunted it, I took a good friend of mine. He went up a hollow that looked good to him and killed a really nice buck. Ever since then, most times when he goes with me or another friend of his that's also an owner, he goes up that same hollow usually. Heck we've even named it "Dave's hollow" andusually stay away from it if he happens to be out with us that day. No big deal. He's my friend. I'm just as happy to see the look on his face after he's killed something as I am to kill it myself.

That's what friends are for.

Sorry so long

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

Totally wrong of these guys to flat out tell you, "thanks for inviting me on your property... but I'm gonna do what I want and not you tell me to." I have invited people on my property to do the exact same thing... thin some does. And believe it or not, I had about two fellas tell me the exact same thing. They are unwelcome on my property. And it kinda depends how they are in relation to you... if they are friends, it might be different. But I had just recently met these guys... and they are already disrespecting me! Unacceptable.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

Therein lies the conundrum. I don't NEED anyone in there, that badly. I thought I could ask them to help me out.....and at the same time provide them with an opportunity to put some meat in their freezers. This gift horse will undoubtedly be a little more tight-lipped in the future.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

I think that you were being more than fair in offering them the opportunity to come and help harvest some does with the chance of having the enjoyment to see some nice bucks. My brother works for a farmer and they only shoot big bucks but don't harvest hardly any does. Usually the farmer allows the rest of our family to come out during the late season and only harvest does. We have been very grateful for that opportunity and have also had the pleasure of seeing some monster bucks that we would probably not get to see anywhere else. People should learn to respect the wishes of the people inviting them to hunt. Because many people don't respect those wishes it many times closes that person to allowing any hunting access and gives hunters in general a bad rap. If someone invites you to hunt with them respect their wishes and enjoy the fellowship of being with other hunters!

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

Wibowhuntr
The key to your statement is late season. If he were to ask you to come and hunt does only on opening weekend or prime time, would you do it? You might, but most are not going to give up the chance to shoot a buck during their regular season. I think GMMAT is completely in the right in this situation, his land...his rules. I just think it might be easier finding someone to follow those rules late season, doe only season, or after filling their own tag. From how I read this, he asked them to come shoot does. If they had asked him to hunt his land, I think it would be easier to tell them that they could only shoot does.

Situation one
GMMAT "can you guys come out and shoot some does for me"
Buttheads " Yeah but If I see a big buck I would probably shoot it"

More preferable situation
Buttheads " would you mind if we came hunting on your land"
GMMATT " that would be ok, but as I already have others hunting there, I would only allow the harvest of does."

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

You said you hire teachers in another thread so you are a principle?
You should know a lot of these answers yourself then.
Would you hire or keep a teacher that does not follow the rules/guidelines?

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

I go along the lines of rickjames.
If I asked someone to my property, (if I had property) with the intent to thin does they could still shoot a big buck. But it better not have too much shrinkage;)
If i was asked to hunt someone's land for does only, I would hope they'd give me the leeway to shoot a whopper, but I wouldn't break thier wishes if they didn't.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

Jeff - welcome to where I WAS. I have been used soooo many times that I quit trying. A few years ago I had over 2000 acres scattered across "our" area. I had more "friends" than I could ever want once word got out how good my land was. Turkey, deer. Guys took there biggest, firsts, only and then had them mounted CHEAP. They even joked about how I should get into the guiding/ taxidermy business, one stop shopping. Season goes out and I don't hear from them again. Season comes around and the phone doesn't stop ringing. Fixed that problem! Then I decided that me and a few other guys would "pool" our properties. An informal hunt club. They had duck land and turkey land that was better than mine. Guess what - they killed deer but I never saw a drop of water for duck hunting and never heard back about the turkey hunting, even after repeated calls. Not again. They will use you. There are very few people that will have any access to my props. Not again.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

Selfish about the rules you are referring to--Nah!!! I've hunted bookoo places with rules similar, and had no thought other than to abide. These guysmight bebeing honest, but if I 'honestly' told you that if you left your wallet around that you may be a few dollars short tomorrow, would that be a good thing?

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

Windwalker nailed it, too, from my experiences.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

EDIT
Sorry I replied to someone that wasn't talking to me. My bad.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

From where I'm standing, the friend issue is a little skewed. What kind of friend is it that when you make it clear that you are thinning does, and ask him not to shoot a buck, and your 'friend' says, I'll do what I want , after all, isn't that what 'friends' are for? If he wants to make a concession for a friend or family memeber then that's one thing, but the 'I'll do as I please' attitude isn't very 'friendly'.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

Jeff....I feel your in the right and not selfish about asking someone to shot "Does Only".Some times in lifeit takes a little while tolearn who your friends really are and who you can trust. ;)


A few weeks ago I had a guy offer to let me hunt on his property,I told him I would love to and asked him what rules he wanted me to follow and what type of deer he wanted harvested?He mentioned he had a Son and a few close Family members that hunted there too,so if I plan on hunting there I am to abide by his rules or I can hunt on our farm if I feel I want to shoot what I want to.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

I guess I'm in the vast minority here. I would say that while you think you are being unselfish, the reasons for your restrictions are very selfish. I can't fathom inviting someone to hunt with me and then expecting them to pass up something I would shoot. I can see you asking them not to take immature deer, but notthem to pass on a trophy is a little rediculous. If that's the kind of restrictions I'd have to place on someone,I wouldn't even think of inviting them.

On a side note, I do realize that you admitted to making a mistake inviting these guys, but I thought I would interject my .02.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

Its your camp Jeff, and subsquently its your rules. It was a friendly invite, not a lease or anything.

You didn't do anything wrong at all.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

My opinion on the matter is it is just that disrespect, if invited you have to treat Jeff as the landowner and respect his wishes I have taken my fair share of deer with a bow and arrow and have been beenin a situation where the landowners specifically asked me not to shoot a large piebald - I took a so called friend with me one day and told him to take anything but the piebald you guessed it, he shot the deer, I lost my rights to the property and have hunted alone since. It boils down to respect I don't care if the biggest deer of your life walked by, if specifically asked not to take it - you will ruin friendships, landowner relations and give yourself a black eye.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

I think they were being selfish. Being invited means you play by house rules. Not being in your situation with the does I don't really have a true understanding of where you're coming from, and I have to say I agree with a dropping a slammer if one comes by, but you have to play by the house rules when your a visitor.

Ken

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

sorry got to thinking more on the subject, I was in a club last year and the president professed need to take does, everyone needs to take one

There were 12 members, I took 4 does, two other guys took one each and everone else went buck crazy - I enjoy the atmosphere of the hunt and let countless small bucks walk to take a doe instead- and half the bucks taken were under the restriction limit - I knew I hade made a mistake the first afternoon

The point I am trying to make is, I lost a lot of respect for these people quickly- I will never join another club if I can avoid it -

Same thing ---someone asked you do something and you push your way in the door -it will get slammed quickly - You set your expectations, they made their beds now they can sleep in it -

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

They should have said,"Thanks for the invite, but we're not interested in comming if we are going to be held to thse rules."

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

Jeff, I dont know you but I'll give you my opinion.
I have not read every response so here's "From the Heart" so to speak!

I would feel entirely priveleged to get an invitation to hunt a landowners property.
Thier Land-Thier Rules.
NO EXCEPTIONS!!!

This situation has come up in my past as a hunter and a landowner.
If I get permission to hunt someones land I view it as:
"What they say is an Irrevocable Contract".!
If I give permission for someone to hunt my land...they sign a copy of this:
http://www.familyfishandgame.com/PDFs/Hunter'sPledge.pdf

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

Solution: draw up a contract. Have them sign it.

The contract should state: bucks can harvested and are subject to a $2500 shooter's fee. If it's that important, they'll raise the money.

Take said funds and come elk hunting....

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

I'll jump in with the minority here .
If you invited your neighbors for a picnic lunch would you cook your friends steaks and your associates hot dogs?
If you feel good enough to hunt with them you should respect them as equals. I agree they should not shoot anything you would not shoot.

It seems you feel you are special.;)and I say this because you do not own the land we are discussing.

If its good for the goose its good ..................[:@]

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

I feel the same way and follow the same rules on my land. If you are my guest, you are a friend and an equal, and this entitles you to shoot anything that I would shoot. Almost like the golden rule;)

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

i agree completely with you. i hunted on a buddies land with a rifle same rules, does only even if it was a 500 B&C i had no problem with that and i havenever killed a big buck, and i had a buck come within 20 yards but i refrained and shot at the doe that was about 200 yards.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

Like I said.....MY bad.

They can choose to go hungry.....or eat what I'm serving. It matters not, to me.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

Gmmat, can I make a suggestion.

For the last three years I have opened my land up to kids that don't have someone to take them hunting. Most were from single parent families. In WI we had a October gun hunt for does only. While I have no proplems shooting doe, I am not much of a gun hunter. So I notified the hunters safety instructors in the area and at the beginning of fall I had a list of a few kids that wantedto hunt. I had a few guys from work who were glad to give up some time over the 4 day hunt to help and guide.Two years ago we were able to take 11 doe of the property with just 4 kids.

I am not sure if this opp. is possible for you where you live, but it might be something you could look into. Kids are the purest for of sportsman, that havne't been spoiled yet.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

Copper:

Thanks for the advice. I'll probably end up taking one of my son's friends with us a few times. Like my son.....with these guys....anything is "fair game" to them. I'd love for either of them to shoot a great deer.

My area is funny. I have access to it.....when no one else thought I could gain it. I have to be careful about how many/who I take in there. I'm responsible, ultimately. That's whyI was asking guys I knew could hunt. i thought I wouldn't have to "babysit' them.

Now I know I don't.;)

The boys will definitely get to hunt as much as they want to. If they shot 'em ALL (all that we were trying to take) it would make my year. I'll be guide and butcher with no problems.

I talked to my wife about this, last night.....because when I walked out of the bowshop, yesterday....I felt like I'd been kicked in the stomach. She said "you don't need someone to come HUNT. You need some help with DOES." That's true. Thee are, literally, 2 deer that I know of that "I" would shoot in my woods (antlered deer). How do I "KNOW" what anyone else would shoot?

Easy solution is......I don't invite them in.....if I have to worry about it.

Thanks again for a GREAT suggestion.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

Pretty close to gospel if you ask me. Well said windwalker.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

Windwalker said it best.

Jeff, you've read Joe Brooks' book. Remember what he said about your property.

With that said, I've been on the invitation end and always followed the rules that others have set for me. At times I was overzealous about hunting the spot that was notmy own and when I could hunt it, and it nearly damaged a friendship. Friends are way more important than hunting spots or deer. Without friends who are you going to share your hunting stories and big buck kills with?

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

Well....it won't be with these guys (if that tells you anything;)).

As far as anyone around me knows, this year.....I haven't seen a buck. I won't show photos....don't share game cam photos.....and I won't let 'em know if I have one at the taxi.

Nothing but does in my woods......and they can drive an hour to "hunt whatever they want". My shop owner lives, LITERALLY, 300 yds from a woodlot Rob/PA and I hunted, last year (I think we saw 13, that morning).

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

I think I must be missing something here, GMMAT.

You invited these guys into a pretty specific win-win situation: they can come to your property to shoot does. They get a place to hunt, and, if they do well, some venison. You get your does thinned. What’s not clear about that? If you invite someone over for dinner, does that mean they can walk home with your stereo when they leave just because you invited them to your house?

Are these guys Afghans? I ask because that is the only culture I know of where this might be accepted practice (my brother-in-law’s best friend is an American-born Afghan, and, apparently, in their culture, if you invite someone to your house, they can use it any way they want, take anything they want and stay as long as they want (as in weeks, if they want to), and, as a good host, you’re supposed to smile and let them)

I have a farmer friend who has given me an invite similar to yours (he has herds of deer that are completely out of control and eat his corn crops). But he explicitly tells me that, if I see a good buck, I can shoot him with my bow but not with a gun (and I never hunt with a gun), because he respects people who hunt with bows and it’s OK with him for me to shoot any animal, but that he would prefer I shoot only does. His rules. I respect them. And I would respect them if it was a does-only invite, too.

Don’t’ invite these guys and don’t feel badly about not doing it! It’s your land, your rules.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

GMMAT
I also setrules on my farm. I invite friends and an occasional acquaintance to bowhunt. They knowmy rules.

You are not being selfish ifyour inviteessay they cannot abide by your rules, THEY ARE the selfish ones!!

Lack of respect for landowners' desires has otherwise closed off a lot of property to hunting...

Hang tough
-fsh

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

I would take back the invitation. I respect the people that I hunt with and honestly I have one guy that I know I can trust with any hunting ground or rules that I have laid out. I took one guy hunting on my prime spot one time (turkey hunting but there's some monster bucks in there). That's all it took for him to call the landowner 7 months before Iasked formy usual permission and now he's in there and I'm out. This is kind of a different subject but to me it all comes down to having respect for those that you hunt with. You asked for their help in thinning does, you didn't give them permission to hunt your land freely.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

These seem to be different situations. You were given permission to hunt does on the farmers property. As I read it, GMMAT invited them to come hunting with him. If you invite someone to come hunting with you, you shouldn't expect them to follow different rules than you. Maybe I misunderstood the situation. Either way, it is definitely GMMAT's right to do what ever he chooses.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

Here is a situation I was in, acctually a couple of them.

First off, I started bow hunting through the generosity of a very rich, and powerful land owner (Ted Turner.... you know... TBS, CNN, The Atlanta Braves etc etc). He allowed cadets from The Citadel (where I went to college), where his two sons went in the 80's, to bow hunt does and hogs only on his 5600 plantation, every Wednesday of the fall semester. Very strict rules applied, and often, on the very last day we would be hunting, the caretaker would allow us to shoot a trophy buck, if we saw one. No one ever did on the last day (karma), but who cares?!? If someone offered you the chance to hunt in such a target rich environment as that, but as part of a management plan, wouldn't you play by the rules? Espeically considering that for almost 20 years, everyone else had too? On my first four bowhunts EVER (all there at Hope Plantation), I took three deer and a hog. The place is that covered up in game! Its amazing!

Then, this past fall, my boss (at the time) offered me membership to his lease for a MUCH reduced price from his other members, on the condition I would thin out the does, and let bucks walk, (although I was allowed to take one buck, trophy quality only, but I never got a shot at the one I wanted). His members were paying close to $1500 for the right to shoot bucks, and I was on the same place, for $250 running rampant on does. And they were glad to have me. If I would have opened up and broken rules... that would have been that. And I would of had no place to hunt.

Bottom line, is that its not selfish to restrict guests. They aren't paying the taxes on the land, or the leases or any of that. Beggers cannot be choosers.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

I think as fetreriif said, Some of these replies are nothing like the situation that GMMAtt stated. And no offense to you personally GMMATT. He asked these guys if they wanted to come hunting to thin some does. Then when they accepted, he said "you know it's does only, right?"

So it seems, in the initial invitation, even though they may have known that their "mission" was to shoot does, they may not have known that that precluded them from shooting a "big buck" if it should happen to walk past, right? Hence, GMMATT had to make sure they understood after they had accepted, right?, by saying,"you know it's doe(s) only". He said this, according to his post, after they had accepted.

Then they said "i'm going to shoot a big buck if he happens to walk by". Perhaps they were either testing GMMATT to see what he'd say (maybe they thought he'd say "ok, no problem")or warning him that that's what they would do, giving him ample opportunity to withdrawl his invitation. That's not being selfish on their part. They told him whatthey would do. I'm surethey realize that he can live with that or tell them to "take a hike"

Many of you act like this is some great invitation "to come out to my place and shoot does only". While some peolple may desperately need places (any places) to hang a stand and hope for no more than a doe. Many don't. I suspect that the owner of a bow shop and a regular who's an excellent3D shooter have several places to hunt already. They might have thought they were doing him a favor, not the other way round.

I myself have several places to hunt and If anyone asked me to come to their place to shoot doe(s) butto notdare shoot any bucks, in essence, imo, because they wanted them all for themselves, I'd decline.I might in ablatently honest way say "I'll come, but I'll shoot a big buck, if I have the chance", knowing that the ball would be back in GMMATT's court to say "ok" or "forget it then". That's not being selfish on my part. Just being honest about my intentions.

Obviously if there were some other legitimate reason why NOBODY (including GMMATT)could shoot a buck, that would be different

Also, GMMAtt,obviously felt a slight rebuke from this incident, perhaps because those guys didn't see an invitation with those kind of strings attached as "any great shakes". Either way, It's Gmmatt's total perogative to do whatever he wants. Still, it's not the same as if these guys were dying for any place to sit in a tree and begging him for an opportunity.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

Hillbilly...."fair" assessment....but the 3D buddy DID ask me. He has a place to hunt.....an hour's drive from his house. I live 3 min.

And to tell you the truth......if ANYONE asked me to come help them thin does......and I knew them and had the time.....I'd do it with absolutely no reservations. I wouldn't think twice about it.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

Would you do iteven if you had not shot a buck yet and it was the middle of the season? I would probably pass. Had I shot a buck already or the season was coming to an end and I wanted meat, it would be a different story.

RE: My eyes were opened.....Am I selfish?
 

i dont think it's selfish.
i think it's disrespectful of them to come back with "but if a big buck comes through Im shootin him." you made them an offer, and you hold all the chips. it's not open to haggling. they can take it, as is, or leave it.