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RE: Keeping things in perspective.
ORIGINAL: buckeyebuckhntr ORIGINAL: GMMAT Arthur....I'm just tired of Lyle Lovett look-alikes hanging around the blind, all-girls college andbragging totheir buddies about how much they're scoing. DUH!!![&:] Also, you may try to talk trash but you have NO IDEA how hard I have worked there over the last 5 years for it to flourish.... Your little doe thining project I have been there and done that..... Ittook me 3 years of shooting 0 bucks and numerous doeson this propertyto establish a good buck to doe ratio. Fertilizing the Oak trees, setting mineral sites, brush hogging etc etc.... I didn't walk into this place I helped it into what it is today despite shareing this place with 3 other hunters Ifbig bucks are so easy to kill I wonder why none of them have ever shot anything but yearlings there [&:] [/align] No one is saying you don't work hard but don't assume you are working harder than everyone else. Bush hogging, food plots, fertilizing land,trying to manage the herd....who doesn't do those things?Are thosenew ground breaking concepts? Of coursenot. Often it is not so much what is beingsaid but the tone or "percieved" tone of the person saying it. If you sound "holier than thou" or condescending oftenyour message is lost. Just because someones camo is not as fadedas yours doesn't mean they don't know what is going on. I have know doubt you are passionate about hunting and know your way around the woods but so do a lot of other people young and old,newcomers and"expert"s andthose other people may not always agree with you or you with them but it (IMO) would be silly to think that "Well I have more experiencethan youso I'm right"is very convincing and that is kind ofwhat it sounds like. |
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
God scott....you'rekillin me.
I don't agree with you......and suddenly I cannotprocess type? Thats good advice, Scott. Sound. (whatever....lol):D |
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
They are in the end, just deer, nothing more, nothing less. The difference between you and me Scott.....as in what we harvest every year......is where we live. I hunt my woods hard. If you think differently......then you're more elitist than I thought. P&Y Entries since NINETEEN-EIGHTY....lol. Nope....Location has nothing to do with it. Let's all book us a monster whitetail hunt in Homestead.....or maybe Charleston!  |
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
What would a unicorn with a 9" horn score?
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RE: Keeping things in perspective.
the poor horse is dead, quit beating it[&o]. Agree to Disagree, and shake hands...
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RE: Keeping things in perspective.
ORIGINAL: _Dan What would a unicorn with a 9" horn score? |
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
ORIGINAL: bawanajim ORIGINAL: _Dan What would a unicorn with a 9" horn score? 13;) |
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
Yea loosers always shoot the first buck they see...............
This from another thread............. I'd say it's going pretty well here as well. When we aren't getting the farm ready for the season we've been spending the evenings just glassing the plots. Saturday there were nearly 40 deer that came out and atleast 15 of those were bucks, atleast 8 of thos were P&Y class animals. You need to hunt harder if you want to kill mature bucks..;););););) |
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
Sweet avatar... Germ.
....you killed my father.. prepare to die!:D |
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
ORIGINAL: Germ ORIGINAL: bawanajim ORIGINAL: _Dan What would a unicorn with a 9" horn score? 13;) Would you consider a 13" unicorn to be mature? I guess it depends on location. But then again, they live everywhere, you just have to look harder. |
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
ORIGINAL: dukemichaels Sweet avatar... Germ. ....you killed my father.. prepare to die!:D |
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
There's a 1,013 yr old 7"er, here.....but it probably looks like a 1,010 to a lot of you in the big unicorn states. I'm thinking of quitting my good job......asking Lisa to leave hers....uprooting my son......and doing what it takes to be a uni-slammer-whammer.
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RE: Keeping things in perspective.
Wow look what i started. Sorry fellas
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RE: Keeping things in perspective.
ORIGINAL: _Dan What would a unicorn with a 9" horn score? Why kill a fawn unicorn when if its meat you want shoot the does. Q.U.M. Let then go so they can grow.............another horn.........;) |
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
i agree also.
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RE: Keeping things in perspective.
After reading each post, and boy am I exhausted...I think several people are missing the big picture.
Things I've taken from this thread are this. 1. Mature bucks are everywhere. That statement is true however, the amount of mature animals clearly differ in each LOCATION making location a very important factor in percentage of chance to take a said mature animal and I too consider a 3.5 as good enough to be mature. If a 5.5 year mature thinker thinks this is wrong and I trust that there are some than it's only a matter of perspective and really like most of what is said in this forum, isn't everything perspective and that's hard to argue about. 2. There is no possible way we can compare Ohio to NC nor would I NOW compare PA to NC but I wouldn't go so far as to compare PA to let's say KS, IL, IA although things are changing, slowly. OHIO is becoming a big buck state, that doesn't happen overnight nor did it. OF COURSE there are big bucks (mature) in NC, not the numbers there are in OH, PA, etc...having been there, GMMAT sure as hell knows what he is doing and knows his animals better than most people on these forums know theres. Without taking a stance either way, I ask those of you thinking location is not the critical rule in taking a "big" "mature" or "P&Y" animal, where are you going to go.....buckeye, would you travel to NC seeking said animal, mobow, where do you want to hunt, NC or OH....If I was booking a hunt to up my chances on a "Mature" animal, I'm heading to OH or another Midwest state. I'm headed to NC this fall, not to hunt mature animals but to assist in what needs done, thinning the doe population so that mature animals will actually increase. Everyone who knows QDM know that too many does will impact your mature animals but more importantly antler size signficantly! Mobo, I can attest that GMMAT's buck last year was no doubt a 3.5 year old, I can also attest that there is no comparing NC whitetails to PA whitetails. My 2.5 year old could actually dwarf GMMAT's 3.5 year old and after watching 70 some animals pass my stand in NC, I could not pick out a mature doe.....I was trying to compare my mature doe to his, not a fair comparison and what would be considered a 2.5 year old doe in NC looked like my fawns. I was astonished. Sure he could move, WHY.....he has a job to do, take as many does as possible and I would love to have that opportunity, that's why I'm headed south in Sept....and if a mature buck walks by, I'm sure he'll show it to us but when you watching 100's of deer, a chance at a mature animals dwindles compared to watching my 20 a season in a mature populated herd. It's all about how a herd is managed and in Jeff's area, because of the protection of the park area, the herd has been mismanaged and now Jeff in his third season has an almost impossible task. In his second season I'd consider him more successful than most of us in our 20 sometin season. I know he's more successful in 2 seasons than I was in my first 10...... There is no arguing that Jeff doesn't have the ability to shoot mature deer but it's a matter of location. He could move but if I lived where he did, I wouldn't move, I'd relish the opportunity to bowhunt like he does. I got one tag last year, I really had to pick and choose and was very happy with my 2.5 year old. I would have been happier with that 4.5 year old I missed however, he was never seen again. That's PA and I'd like to think I know my land and I know how to bowhunt whitetails. Some herds are better than most. I can attest as well that if I lived in a "richer" whitetail enviroment that my class of animals on my wall would be much higher. A 200" monster was taken about a mile from my home. I absolutely had no permission to hunt any of the land that whitetail lived or frequented. I had no chance at patterning or killing that whitetail no more than GMMAT did hunting the county over. I applaud Cougars in his statement. In his young carreer of hunting whitetails, I think he has a great perspective. |
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
ORIGINAL: bawanajim Why kill a fawn unicorn when if its meat you want shoot the does. Q.U.M. Let then go so they can grow.............another horn.........;) Its not a fawn, its a yearling with spots. |
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
ORIGINAL: Rob/PA Bowyer After reading each post, and boy am I exhausted...I think several people are missing the big picture. Things I've taken from this thread are this. 1. Mature bucks are everywhere. That statement is true however, the amount of mature animals clearly differ in each LOCATION making location a very important factor in percentage of chance to take a said mature animal and I too consider a 3.5 as good enough to be mature. If a 5.5 year mature thinker thinks this is wrong and I trust that there are some than it's only a matter of perspective and really like most of what is said in this forum, isn't everything perspective and that's hard to argue about. 2. There is no possible way we can compare Ohio to NC nor would I NOW compare PA to NC but I wouldn't go so far as to compare PA to let's say KS, IL, IA although things are changing, slowly. OHIO is becoming a big buck state, that doesn't happen overnight nor did it. OF COURSE there are big bucks (mature) in NC, not the numbers there are in OH, PA, etc...having been there, GMMAT sure as hell knows what he is doing and knows his animals better than most people on these forums know theres. Without taking a stance either way, I ask those of you thinking location is not the critical rule in taking a "big" "mature" or "P&Y" animal, where are you going to go.....buckeye, would you travel to NC seeking said animal, mobow, where do you want to hunt, NC or OH....If I was booking a hunt to up my chances on a "Mature" animal, I'm heading to OH or another Midwest state. I'm headed to NC this fall, not to hunt mature animals but to assist in what needs done, thinning the doe population so that mature animals will actually increase. Everyone who knows QDM know that too many does will impact your mature animals but more importantly antler size signficantly! Mobo, I can attest that GMMAT's buck last year was no doubt a 3.5 year old, I can also attest that there is no comparing NC whitetails to PA whitetails. My 2.5 year old could actually dwarf GMMAT's 3.5 year old and after watching 70 some animals pass my stand in NC, I could not pick out a mature doe.....I was trying to compare my mature doe to his, not a fair comparison and what would be considered a 2.5 year old doe in NC looked like my fawns. I was astonished. Sure he could move, WHY.....he has a job to do, take as many does as possible and I would love to have that opportunity, that's why I'm headed south in Sept....and if a mature buck walks by, I'm sure he'll show it to us but when you watching 100's of deer, a chance at a mature animals dwindles compared to watching my 20 a season in a mature populated herd. It's all about how a herd is managed and in Jeff's area, because of the protection of the park area, the herd has been mismanaged and now Jeff in his third season has an almost impossible task. In his second season I'd consider him more successful than most of us in our 20 sometin season. I know he's more successful in 2 seasons than I was in my first 10...... There is no arguing that Jeff doesn't have the ability to shoot mature deer but it's a matter of location. He could move but if I lived where he did, I wouldn't move, I'd relish the opportunity to bowhunt like he does. I got one tag last year, I really had to pick and choose and was very happy with my 2.5 year old. I would have been happier with that 4.5 year old I missed however, he was never seen again. That's PA and I'd like to think I know my land and I know how to bowhunt whitetails. Some herds are better than most. I can attest as well that if I lived in a "richer" whitetail enviroment that my class of animals on my wall would be much higher. A 200" monster was taken about a mile from my home. I absolutely had no permission to hunt any of the land that whitetail lived or frequented. I had no chance at patterning or killing that whitetail no more than GMMAT did hunting the county over. I applaud Cougars in his statement. In his young carreer of hunting whitetails, I think he has a great perspective. Great posting Rob and thank you. |
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
ORIGINAL: _Dan ORIGINAL: bawanajim Why kill a fawn unicorn when if its meat you want shoot the does. Q.U.M. Let then go so they can grow.............another horn.........;) Its not a fawn, its a yearling with spots. |
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
ORIGINAL: Rob/PA Bowyer Sure he could move, WHY.....he has a job to do, I'll be hard, but well worth it. Good luck! |
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
ORIGINAL: Arrowmaster Ok Cougars I'll appologize if I came off sounding like a know it all, talking about yearlings. Around this area thats what we know them as. Here a fawn has spots, once the spots are gone we consider them yearlings. So my bad on that. For the record I could care less what anyone here shoots. Not my tag so shoot whatever makes a person happy... as far as the OHIO VS NORTH CAROLINA arguement, hows about this. both of you shoot MATURE DEER as Dan keeps saying. I dont see what the antler fuss is all about, a four year old deer is a four year old deer no matter WHERE it lives. |
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
Rob:
I appreciate not you taking my side.....but sharing what it's like here....and what I'm trying my best to reverse.....which is years of doing nothing (by my neighbors). I put as much into this as anyone....and it rubs me wrong when people try to tell me about the herd I hunt. I put out minerals. I planted a food plot. I supplemental feed. I stay in touch with my GW and my Wildlife Biologist.I hunt smart and hard. My ONLY point was.....that I do the same things the guys in the big buck states do. The difference.......location. I don't have a thing in the world against Scott.....and I admire his dedication to hunting. He's obviously turned some other guys onto this passion. Kudos. Stressful week.....I regret the way it turned. Take care. |
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
I applaud a person who can see a problem with the deer herd and come up with a management strategy to bring said herd into check. That takes a lot of patience and dicipline. 5 years from now, if Jeff sticks with it, he will be able to look back with a huge sense of accomlishment. I'll be hard, but well worth it. Good luck! It's not that noble. I was ignorant until recently. I just felt like something wasn't right with the numbers I was seeing. So....I contacted the NCWRC and talked to the bio. Took a QDMA seminar on food plots. Came up with a game plan....and here I am. I told Rob QAM will be a side effect of the QDM (Which is the way it should be.....a bi-product). I think I can (maybe I'm being optimistic) shoot a 130" deer here in the next 3 or 4 years. I hope I'm as disciplined and patient as I'm going to need to be. Thanks for the encouragement. [align=right][/align][align=right][/align] |
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
mobow, where do you want to hunt, NC or OH Mobo, I can attest that GMMAT's buck last year was no doubt a 3.5 year old, I can also attest that there is no comparing NC whitetails to PA whitetails. Do I agree that some areas hold more mature bucks than others? Sure. Does that increase your odds of shooting one? Absolutely. BUT.....I SERIOUSLY don't think it's the MAIN factor in whether we shoot one or not, it's how hard we work in the offseason. Whether there's 1 mature animal or 5 in an area, we still have to find them to shoot them. Is it maybe easier if there's 5? Possibly, but not necessarily. I have found that the more mature bucks there are in an area the more people are hunting them IN that area..... You know, I kind of have to laugh at myself here, now that I think about it.....I've never killed a buck PERIOD, with archery tackle anyway.....Maybe I haven't earned the "right" to discuss it...... |
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
You've got every right in the world, mobo....and the thread I posted the other day referenced BIG deer......not mature deer.
Now insert that into your previous post. I just can't fathom why that's so hard to see. It's not really debateable. It's fact. And mobo.....my deer was rutting hard. He was chasing does when I shot him (the morning I shot him). He was huffin like a train. I have no doubts he was a healthier specimen in October. He still weighed 170+ lbs.....which is a big deer if you ask .....well....if you ask people around here. |
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
ORIGINAL: buckeyebuckhntr 1 measley county North. |
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
Given that alone, then absolutely. But even in an area w/ "small" deer there are some "big" ones, yes?
Man, I can't keep up w/ the edits.....LOL :D:D Yes, 170 is a big deer, in anyone's book. |
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
Given that alone, then absolutely. But even in an area w/ "small" deer there are some "big" ones, yes? Everything's relative.....and the public perception is determined by "location". "I" feel lie it's a fact. I may be wrong. |
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
ORIGINAL: mobowhuntr You know, I kind of have to laugh at myself here, now that I think about it.....I've never killed a buck PERIOD, with archery tackle anyway.....Maybe I haven't earned the "right" to discuss it...... |
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
but you'd think I'd at LEAST see him....or get a trail cam photo of him....or have a neighbor see him....etc... Didn't happen. |
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
ORIGINAL: Rob/PA Bowyer ORIGINAL: mobowhuntr You know, I kind of have to laugh at myself here, now that I think about it.....I've never killed a buck PERIOD, with archery tackle anyway.....Maybe I haven't earned the "right" to discuss it...... |
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
Out of curiosity, mobo.....why do you think he's been there all this time?
As time goes by......I think there MAY be deer that grow old and die behind me.....and are never seen by humans. But....there's only a few hundred acres, back there. I'm simply speculating......and I have no access to them....even if I KNEW they were there. Maybe I'll catch a "traveler" during the rut?? |
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
Out of curiosity, mobo.....why do you think he's been there all this time? |
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
I hope you're right, mobo. Hope he sticks around.
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RE: Keeping things in perspective.
After reading 16 pages of this BS ramble...... I realize I just wasted a few minutes of my life I'll never get back!:(:eek:[&o]
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RE: Keeping things in perspective.
And a few more seconds responding to it.
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RE: Keeping things in perspective.
ORIGINAL: GMMAT And a few more seconds responding to it.  |
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
ORIGINAL: TEmbry15 ORIGINAL: Arrowmaster Ok Cougars I'll appologize if I came off sounding like a know it all, talking about yearlings. Around this area thats what we know them as. Here a fawn has spots, once the spots are gone we consider them yearlings. So my bad on that. For the record I could care less what anyone here shoots. Not my tag so shoot whatever makes a person happy... as far as the OHIO VS NORTH CAROLINA arguement, hows about this. both of you shoot MATURE DEER as Dan keeps saying. I dont see what the antler fuss is all about, a four year old deer is a four year old deer no matter WHERE it lives. |
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
Bookmarking my place.
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RE: Keeping things in perspective.
buckeye, would you travel to NC seeking said animal, Part of me would say Ohio, but only because I could possibly hunt with Scott. |
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