Right now if I can fling an arrow and hit a target without punching the trigger....that is a good group regardless of my yardage.

I think a lot of people have a misconception of what a top notch shooter can shoot as compared to average to good backyard shooters. These 4" groups at 40 yards that everyone claims are really good groups. The difference between this and the very elite archers in the world is that they can shoot not one or two groups like that, but 30, 45, 60, etc arrows in a row with no flyers. Pull the 1-15 flyers people get on average to throw that 40 yard group off and you have a group that is world class. It's not about shrinking the size of the group, its about consistency........that will win more tournaments than most would believe.

Below is a slightly better than average 40 yard group for me. I can hit the black dot on a morrell bag at 40 yards 2-3 times out of 4 with most of the misses just a hair out. I can honestly say I am right now shooting 27-29 out of every 30 arrows into a 4" group or better at 40 yards.

Any 3 arrow group that I can shoot and NOT bust a nock, shoot through a vane or robin hood one is a GOOD group...because dem a-rows be exponsive and chit......

I honestly have stopped shooting more than one arrow per dot or per 3D target, just because I do tend to be hard my own equipment. I honestly try to avoid shooting them together...but I think its just a habit to shoot for the bullseye...or the 11 ring etc etc..

For me, these are good groups.
20 0 to 2" (I don't shoot groups at 20 too much because of arrow/fletch damage.)
30 1-3"
40 2-4"

The first 40 yard group I shot, I got a robin hood. I was like "wow, cool", then I went to get the arrow and was like "oh, wait". First and last time I shoot at the same spot on a target.

Good stuff on consistency, RJ. Makes a lot of sense.

Someone might in good conscience post that they get 4" groups at 40 (not talking about Greg/MO here), but may be seriously discounting the errant shots.

My goal is for "hunting consistency." Make the misses smaller and fewer.
That is why I want "typical" 3" groups at 30 yards, b/c I know that I am quite capable (especially on a deer) of looking up, flinching, torquing, arm shake, etc. and be a couple of inches off.

RJ must shoot a LOT! Very good 40 yd groups Man! Never in my life....

i agree w/ rj, again. its all about cleaning up the bad shots. everybody makes good shots, they aren't the issue. to really do this i have to keep myself from rhythm shooting. you know - the instance after release - already reaching for an arrow and nocking it. instead i have to make myself take a second - take a breath - start over - make every shot my first shot. i used to be a pretty good rhythm shooter - until it led to drive by shooting, and until i realized that in neither hunting nor 3d would i ever be taking shots when i was in rhythm - they'd always be my first shot that counts.

And for God's sakes.....

If you're thinking about shooting a lot of 3D.....buck the trend.....and learn how to do so in an expeditious manner. Either do so.....or good luck finding a deer that'll stand still long enough for you to go througha pre-shot routine like I see some guys utilize.

Holy CRAP! While we're YOUNG!!

RJ that groups is not acceptable to me