RE: Just got invited on a "management" hunt.
 

Red Boar - I did the same poll on AT - got 300 responses, and same results. 88% in favor of hunting inside the fence.

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=491469

Shame, but while a lot of us talk a good game about huntinginside a fence, our opinion changes when it's prepaid or free. Ethics for sale.

RE: Just got invited on a "management" hunt.
 

Markj
For you it is a money issue pure and simply correct? You have no feelings one way or they other.

RE: Just got invited on a "management" hunt.
 

For mefences has nothing to do with my personal"ethics". Ifit did I would only eat meat I kill fair chaseand is a game animal. It is simply achoice that Iwill not pursue a trophy animal in a cage or fence. That is not hunting, to me. But in this situation, considering the relatinoship and being a gimme, I would do it.I would never pay or brag about it.

If a guy raised goats or whatever andwas going to skin out somefor the freezer and burgers and asked if I wanted to shoot one I would do it. Heck I would try out a Rage Head or something. Have we not all looked at a cow or somethig and wonderedwhat it would be like to whack one? If a farmer said it is fine I am fixing to kill it anyway, many of us would go for it.

1 plural but singular or plural in construction : the discipline dealing with what is good and bad and with moral duty and obligation
2 a : a set of moral principles : a theory or system of moral values <the present-day materialistic ethic> <an old-fashioned work ethic> -- often used in plural but sing. or plural in constr. <an elaborate ethics> <Christian ethics> b plural but singular or plural in construction : the principles of conduct governing an individual or a group <professional ethics> c : a guiding philosophy d : a consciousness of moral importance <forge a conservation ethic>
3 plural : a set of moral issues or aspects (as rightness) <debated the ethics of human cloning>

If we are going to focus on this topic by thisdefinition of Ethics or Ethicalthen we must give way to the folks that have a very bad problem with any animal bleeding to death from a broadhead. Myethics and beliefsare not for sale. Now my personal thoughts about things? That can change with new knowledge or understanding.We are talking about killing an animal and where it is appropriate.

RE: Just got invited on a "management" hunt.
 

I don't doubt you, just extremely surpised. Hmmm...

Here is the main point I am trying to make: Let's say that you had the opportunity to rob a bank and:

1. guaranteed no one will get hurt
2.you will take home a ton of money
3. there is absolutely no chance you will get caught
4. you promise to do something good with some of the money
5. bank manager is a real jerk and has it coming
6. they turned you down for several needed loans, etc. etc.

These factors should have no influence on whether you think it is right or wrong and whether you do it. Now, please understand that I am not comparing this hunting opportunity with bank robbing...definitely not. Just saying you have to make your ethical decision separate from whether it is a business associate, free or paid, fun to do, etc. Don't let yourself be confused...make your decision on what your little guy inside is telling you. Again, not judging either way, even if it sounds like I am. :eek:

RE: Just got invited on a "management" hunt.
 

No, not really, but I've always sorta wanted to try "cow-tipping" just once.:D

RE: Just got invited on a "management" hunt.
 

Call me looney....but...NO?????[&:]

RE: Just got invited on a "management" hunt.
 

Thanks for lightening up the thread :D[8D]

RE: Just got invited on a "management" hunt.
 

Apples and oranges here....shooting a deer inside a fence won't get you a cell mate that looks like Germ;)

RE: Just got invited on a "management" hunt.
 

Hey I am... wait pretty damn ugly.

RE: Just got invited on a "management" hunt.
 

You are correct, apples and oranges...tried to point that out. Tried to sum it up by saying that there always are outside factors that shouldn't place your ethics and standards up for grabs. They are constants...by definition, if they constantly change with the prevaling breeze, than they are not standards that you live by.

RE: Just got invited on a "management" hunt.
 

redboar what kind of comparison is that? Stealing peoples money to give it to the poor? People do not get hurt? What is this the Robin Hood story?

You think I am not logical?Be realistic here.

RE: Just got invited on a "management" hunt.
 

Germ, that doesn't matter. If you're doing the spooning, the "spoonee" can't see you anyway.:D

RE: Just got invited on a "management" hunt.
 

He said he wasnt comparing..

RE: Just got invited on a "management" hunt.
 

No problem Germ......

please refrain from making comments about my wife! [>:]......say what you will about me......

and it is a Yamaha

RE: Just got invited on a "management" hunt.
 

Oh so you knewtwo months ago I would take a free fenced hunt to kill amanagement deer? How did you do that?

As far as the cold reception goes that is a totally different story. My personal beliefs are not for sale and neither is my conscience or ethics system.Mine comes from "As it is written" type things. Where do you get yours?

And thefence question has never been raisedhere withme. If asked I would say and have always saidI would never pay money to do that or be proud of a nice animal I took in one.

If you really want to crawl inside my brain PM me. I have some spare time this afternoon. As far as judging someone personally from a few posts, good luck, and I think it is wrong. I said I will change my Personal Limitations when it is free. Not my ethics. There is a difference You and Germ may feed some more. Read into it what you wish.

And by the way. Who typed this. "Why dont you all go to the Religious section and stroke one another"? Did you question that? Nope.

RE: Just got invited on a "management" hunt.
 

Radio Shack


Find where I said ethics..I said accountability..you said limitations..Either/or will change according to price. You said so!

I have no idea where this came from or what you are even talking about.

RE: Just got invited on a "management" hunt.
 

Could we PLEASE just get back to calling me a "sell-out" and condemning ME?

:)

RE: Just got invited on a "management" hunt.
 

hahahaha :D

RE: Just got invited on a "management" hunt.
 

Thanks for the suppport Michael ;)...I was merely pointing out that in life you can always find ways to rationalize decisions if you want to.

RE: Just got invited on a "management" hunt.
 

No prob, i just hate when people argue on this site for the sake of arguing...nobody is right ALL the time and we all have our own opinions. We just need to do the best to respect eachothers opinions and be humble...

RE: Just got invited on a "management" hunt.
 

It wasn't so long ago, that guys on here were up in arms about Jimmy Houston going and filming a similar hunt. Well, maybe these deer aren't drugged.

Hey, maybe he'll be there.

Sorry GMMAT, but if I were in your shoes and waiting to fill 8 doe tags this fall, I wouldn't be worrying about the canned hunt. You'll have enough fun putting tags on thosefree rangedoes that need thinning anyway.

It would be easy to make an excuse and not got.

It is your call.

RE: Just got invited on a "management" hunt.
 

Jeff i would go for it and shoot a doe, Just to see the giants walking around is enough for me to want to go if you can get it off from work then i would do it. On the downsize itll make you realize how much smaller the deer are here[:'(]

RE: Just got invited on a "management" hunt.
 

I agree. But how did you avoid scrutiny here?
Isit about the money? Putting business before ethics? :D

RE: Just got invited on a "management" hunt.
 

Don't take this as a criticism...just trying to understand everyone's thought process. Are we saying that a doe is less of an animal in a pen than a buck? I thought the determining factor was whether you were comfortable with the idea of a canned hunt, not what type of animal is shot. :eek:confused face.

RE: Just got invited on a "management" hunt.
 

Great point Red Boar.

I guess the thinking is progressed beyond the ethics of it to, if I kill a big buck in a fenced area and mount it in my living room do I want to have to explain 50 times how and where I killed it.

I see fences as a grey area. I think there are times when it might be okay by my standards, very large area, not baited, etc., but most of the time I wouldn't do it. I think a lot of legit hunters have an aversion to fence hunting b/c some rich guy who doesn't know what he is doing and doesn't appreciate anything, can hunt for 10 hours and kill a bigger deer than many serious hunters might kill in their lifetimes.

RE: Just got invited on a "management" hunt.
 

Hey guys.....for me....it's a business opportunity for one of my clients. It's legal....and I won't be pulling the trigger on a deer that I'm touting as a "trophy". I'll be taking a client to kill adeer, LEGALLY.....and I will have NO PROBLEMS killing a deer (doe)for the family of FOURTEEN (12 kids!) that I donate my venison (extra) to.

If you're asking me if I'll feel bad about killing a doe???????? Nope. Would I feel weird taking a buck? Honestly.....Yes.

If I'm "wrong", I'm wrong. I'm being honest.

RE: Just got invited on a "management" hunt.
 

Not less of an animal just saying since he has shot deer he wouldnt mount a deer and would go home with meat and not empty handed. If he shot a monster though i just couldnt be as proud of it as i would be a free range deer hanging on my wall thats all i was saying

RE: Just got invited on a "management" hunt.
 

For what it is worth to you, I agree. You are not selling out or anything.

I would never choose to pay to go to one of these places and then tote around a buck to show off. Butthis offer,I would do the same thing.
Be sure and let us know how you like it.

When you are done there our local slaughter house is having trouble with their Bolt Guns. I will be there on Tuesdays helping outif you have time.
;)

RE: Just got invited on a "management" hunt.
 

I respect that and don't think you are necessarily wrong...just trying to figure out where everyone's "line in the sand" is. This has been an interesting opportunity to dialogue on a touchy subject...hope no one gets their nose bent out of shape. Best to you either way.

RE: Just got invited on a "management" hunt.
 

If you are doing what you can live with then it can't be wrong (unless against the law ;)). As long as you can look at yourself in the mirror everyday and like what you see then it doesn't matter what anyone would do OR what they think of what you are doing. The ones that look down their noses at what other people do, within the law,have a problem that goes way beyond ethics and they should seek professional help.

The opinions of other people are nice at times and can help when you have a decision to make but the only opinions that really matter are the opinions of the ones you have to live with: Yours and your loved ones. Those are the opinions that matter.

RE: Just got invited on a "management" hunt.
 

It helped me to read through all of GMAT's posts before I responded.For me personally if there is a fence I am not hunting,it get's a bit confusing when there is a huge piece of property that is fenced! There is just something in my gut that doesn't want to kill an animal that is in an enclosure,and of course I have a choice so I would not do it.
The additional information about the business relationship,specifically the 1 million dollars of business done with this person further confused matters.Any one who is in a competetive business has to appreciate the sensitivity of that.
What I would do is leave the weapons home and go and spend the time,help the person out at their place,see there operation,spend some quality time with the guy and show my appreciation of his offer that way.But no hunting for me.I'll field dress,drag,process etc. for others and still have a great time.
Before any one says that the business piece shouldn't matter,consider this what if your business had to lay people off if you lost that account?What if it put your firm under?
In a case like that,I would become a great guy who just couldn't happen to hit any thing in camp that week.;)But I would be the most helpful gracious person that camp has ever seen.

RE: Just got invited on a "management" hunt.
 

bawana, you got it all wrong!

Mopeds are like fat chicks.....they're fun to ride, but don't let you friends catch you riding them! haha

RE: Just got invited on a "management" hunt.
 

There seems to be plenty of guys here that find nothing wrong with this scenario. I am thinking age might have some thing to do with that train of thought.
So let me add this to the question,to all of you that find canned hunts an acceptable thing to do.

Would youask your father to go with you on this hunt,or if it was not your fatherthat taught you to hunt would you take your mentor?

RE: Just got invited on a "management" hunt.
 

Not sure what you're asking, Bawana.

Would I ask my father to go with me on a canned hunt?

Well...since we all know what "I'm" proposing on this......and to get to the REAL heart of your question......

YES...If my father were alive....I'd have NO TROUBLE telling him I was going to Ohio with a business client.....and that I was going to shoot a doe to donate to a needy family. It wouldn't matter to me if they just gave me a cooler full of venison before we left......and I could just stay in the lodge. BUT....I will feel NO SHAME in taking a doe from a herd that obviously needs taking.......to donate the meat to the needy.

RE: Just got invited on a "management" hunt.
 

I am curious as to why it would be OK to kill a doe, but not a buck? I know it's for the meat, but Jeff has already indicated the need to thin down the herd in his area.Why not just kill one moreon your home property? Why not take the guy to your hunting land and let him do it the old-fashioned way?

I am not judging anyone here.......just curious

RE: Just got invited on a "management" hunt.
 

Gus.....Did you read the entire thread?

RE: Just got invited on a "management" hunt.
 

Are we back on this!?

GMMAT I guess you are a low-life. I would be also if I got this deal.

I am38. Does that make a difference. Jim I don't see where that is relevant. Are you saying when GMMAT and Iare both 50we will not be sell-outs anymore? :D

(sorry if you are 50)

RE: Just got invited on a "management" hunt.
 

Hell at this point I can't remember. I know you said this..........

Was there something else I missed?

RE: Just got invited on a "management" hunt.
 

Yeah....

All of this

So yeah....for me.....if everything else is not interfered with....it would be "OK" to take a doe.

Remember.....I asked your opinions.....but I will do what I feel is "right"...or "OK".

When the coming season ends.....I will likely have taken between 10-15 animals with my bow. It's not about the killing. I can do that, here. I've never taken any pride in that, anyway.

RE: Just got invited on a "management" hunt.
 

Yeah I got all of that and I feel ya. It seems or appears to me that you and some others are indicating that killing a doe under these conditions are OK, and taking a client to kill a buck is OK when otherwise NOT.

My question was why not just kill some of the does that you have in excess on your land and give to the family of 14......and take the client with you there to do it the old-fashioned way and not go on the trip at all?

Again, If it's something you want to do...go for it. It appears to me that you are on the fence and looking for reasons to make it an OK thing to do in your own mind.