"Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

I mentioned the other day that our bow shop owner asked me to come down and help the local news station film a short segment on hunting/archery, last week.

Another post got me to thinking about this.....so...

During the segment....we were discussing some shots we had taken at a 3D target. Our bow shop owner was pointing out that even though the shot in question didn't score well (scoring rings)...it was a perfect kill shot.

Stop the tape.

The TV guys is an avid sportsman. He's a hunter. He kills deer. But he also knows this is going on television.....and the use of the word "kill" is AVOIDABLE.

So we find ourselves in a dilemma. Do we stick to our guns and speak of the blood and guts and gore that we all know hunting is......or.....do we find a diplomatic approach that will still get our point across....and possibly enhance our way of life (i.e. hunting) by promoting it to some that may not know what it brings us.

It's not selling out, guys.....it's diplomacy. The end result is.....we got a nice segment out to the public that will hopefully shed a good light on us as a whole. I'll take that over pissing someone off just to prove a point.

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I think the word "harvest" began being used as a way of de-sensitizing us to what we are really doing. I also believe that on some ranches deer are grown to be shot, much like a field of grain is planted, so harvest is used......It's BS though, if you ask me. I think that by playing down what we are really doing, and being "politically correct" about it, we are playing right into the hands of the activists......

I use the word kill, and will NEVER use the word harvest when speaking about hunting. The animal was living when it walked past, I shot an arrow through it's lungs, and now it's dead. Plain and simple, I killed it, and by God I am proud of it.

I'm not saying we need to be disrespectful and use all the gore and such associated with it. Folks don't need to hear about the blood coming out of it's nose, how the deer staggered around for a second before it collapsed and all that......I think that's disrespectful to the animal as well, but killing a deer is an acceptable thing to do. There's absolutely NO reason to be ashamed of it or to downplay it in any way. Let's call it what it is.

Anyway, I could go on for DAYS about this one, but I can only type so fast. Besides, ya'll are only gonna read so much anyway, so that's all I have to say about that.

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I agree Jeff. I work at a small liberal arts university and most people on campus know I'm a hunter. Most are curious, most are accepting and grateful when I provide venison at staff get togethers. Some however will never accept or understand my passion. I could use an aggressive, confrontational approach with these people. To what end? Could I hope to accomplish anything? Am I being a "sellout" if I choose to be PC and not not use language these people find offensive? I don't think so. Why make someone that dislikes what I do dislike me as a person as well? I get along with the antis where I work because I want a harmonious workplace and I want to work there for a long time.
I will continue to be "PC" at work and in other areas. If I say harvest instead of kill what real difference does it make when we all know we are talking about the same thing. I just don't see the point in antagonizing someone just to, "stick to my guns". Antis may believe I am a bloodthirsty killer when in the woods. When out of the woods I may be able to make them believe I am an articulate professional with passions that differ from those they persue.

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Mobo.....

Then 1 of 2 things would have occurred if you'd been there instead of me.

1) They would have gotten someone else to do the segment

or

2) It wouldn't air with that word in it.

Is it worth risking the segment not be run......and miss out on a good opportunity to tell others about our passion? That's not very smart in my book.

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GM, I understand what you're saying, and you're right, that's exactly what would have happend. If you wouldn't have said it the way they wanted you to, they would have found someone else. In that regards I understand and my previous post wasn't intended to discredit you an any way, and I apologize if it sounded like it was.

Here's my thing, and this is just me I guess. That's my moral belief, and I am going to stick by that. If that were me, and again I'm not trying to insinuate that you were wrong, but if I would have been in that position I would have told them they would have to find someone else then. My feelings and beliefs are what they are, and if they don't like it.....Well, I just really don't care. I'm not changing just because they think I should......Not advise, just my personal belief.

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I think using the word kill wouldn't be wrong in a country that practices freedom of speech, what happens to cows and pigs, livestock that's killed for meat ? it gets butchered right ?

In my humble opinion, I think you would respect the meat served on your table far more if you knew what it took to get it there, even if that means blood and gore....

F.

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Farmers harvest. Hunters kill. I don't eat things that are still alive. I feel it is cruel to grill something before it is dead. That is inhumane. Who cares what the "others" think ? I say what I mean, and mean what I say. I will never lie or try to cover up what I do. No offense but, are you embarassed or ashamed to call yourself a hunter? I sure as hell don't carry my bow into the woods to do any of my prey any favors. I think it is disrespectful to your game to say they were harvested. If it was me I would rather be killed than harvested. A wise man once said "You have to kill it before you grill it!"

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Wording is sooo important, we knowwe're killing, but sometimes usingdifferant terminology goes a long way.;)

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It is what it is. Im not going to try to put up a smoke screen for non-hunters. You will get more respect from honesty.Kill away.

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Even farmers send their livestock to a slaughter house, not a harvest house. I know one guy/family on here that will agree with me.

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I respect your position, Mobo. Much like the baseball player wanting every ball to be hit to him......or the basketball player wanting the ball......I wanted to do this segment. I really don't trust the next yahoo to convey what I wanted to.

I've got no problems using the kill word. I just know when to use it......and when to exercise diplomacy. Diplomacy = the segment being run.

Believe me guys......people know an animal was killed when we say "harvest".

If you were to be asked to come and talk to a group of boy scouts......at one of their meetings.....to try to educate them on the rewards you've personally realized because of hunting.......and their ONLY request was you substitute "harvest" for "kill"......would you do it???

I'd JUMP at the chance.

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No. I am not going to change who I am or what I do or say because someone feels uncomfortable about using the word "kill" when that's what I'm doing. As I said in one of my previous, if they don't like it, I don't care. I think standing up for your passion, and not ........what's the wording I'm looking for here......compromising my beliefs (??) says more for my passion and character than the speech itself.....

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Must say harvest sounds better, but I always say kill.

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I agree with MOBO 100%. Now if I could have Michael Waddell's job and I couldn't say kill. Well that is a different story.

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

This topic has been hammered pretty good a number of times.I personally believe in knowing your audience and erring to the side of consideration.If I am going to possibly offend someone with the use of a certain word I wont use it.I do not regularly use the word harvest,but I probably would have in that situation,if I couldn't have used the word take or taken.
We all know what we are doing when we put an arrow through a deers chest cavity.I look at it from two perspectives,courtesy to those who are not familiar with hunting and intelligence from the perspective of if I am respectful of them,they are more likely to be respectful of me,that may translate in to hunting privilege's,friendships etc..

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About the most PC I get is to say shoot or get instead of kill. I'm not a farmer, I don't harvest.

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I'm hungry with all of this talk.

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I am right on with mobowhuntr. There is no need to explain the detail and all the blood and what not but you are in fact killing the animal. Everyone knows it so why is it such a big deal?

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I knew Don would agree!:D

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So the scouts don't learn about hunting......and an opportunity (via TV segment)to put what we do in the limelightfalls by the wayside.

Who"wins" in that scenario?

Let Bowtech/Hoyt/Mathewsput a lucrative TV package together with the stipulation that the kill word not be used. It would be interesting to see how many would stick to their convictions.

This conversation always fascinates me.

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I can tell you that I would. I do understand what you are saying though, and I don't think you were wrong. You did what you felt was right, and there's certainly nothing wrong with that.

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Everyone has their price. Like I said if Michael Waddell's job was open with that stipulation. I would be right there. I'd be going on a road trip!

I've done plenty of things I don't like for money. (like any kind of work)

P.S. When you talk to Bill let him know I am ready to go.

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I would love to enter this thread but....

The PotatoesI killed are done frying
The carrots I murdered are ready to come of the stove
The Venison back strapsI harvestedare done on the grill

For desert we are having homemade strawberry short cakewith strawberries I decapitated today;)

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

I just knew I had to check this one out. CLASSIC GERM

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I dont sugar coat anything, if you want to say kill say it.

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In that case, TeeJay.....you wouldn't have gotten the opportunity I got, and you wouldn't get to talk to the scouts. Who loses? Not you.....but the people you might have reached with your "message".....they surely do.

I use the word all the time.....more than I thought I ever would. I don't hide from it. It doesn't bother "me". It's not always about "me", though.

I'm not saying you "kill" guys (not derogatory.....just for lack of a better term;)) are "wrong". If you feel that strongly.....more power to you.

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And Germ.......

We're doing turkey breast....salad....and Lisa just made a banana pudding.

Touche'!;)

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i used to say "harvest" on here and other forums...just sounds better to anyone reading that isnt a hunter...i dont know...

but after thinking about it a whilllle back i decided i am a hunter. im not a farmer. i dont grow the animals i kill. i sure as heck dont harvest them. i kill them. so ive stopped saying harvest. i dont care who says what...we all know harvest DOES sound better....i asa HUNTER just dont like that term and cant think of REAL hunting as harvesting. "taking" is a better word IMO...sounds better to me atleast...

to me hunting isnt shopping. i dont raise my deer. i dont even know if theres deer where i hunt for sure..(sometimes i swear there isnt any! lol) but thats why its HUNTING. i dont go into the pen and "harvest" me a deer that is mature and ripe for the pickin...

but i do agree...on TV or the internet etc harvest or other words do sound better.

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If you went on Safari for those bananas you got me[:@]

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Just out of curiosity how many people who practice QDM harvest? Maybe they don't "grow" the deer but it gets close. I know for sure that many S.TX. ranches practice harvesting. You can't shoot the deer until it is large enough to meet certain criteria. Yes, there is no doubt that a kill is made but to my way of thinking a harvest happened at the same time. To those who refuse to compromise on a word, and that is all it is, a word, I have to wonder why. I am not trying to be critical, I just don't understand why the rigid stance.I am not in the least bit ashamed of any animal I have caused to cease living. Nor am I ashamed of the way I choose to describe the death of the animal. I don't think it shows disrespect to the animal. After all, it is only a word. Kill, take, or harvest. To me they are all just words.If I will ruffle fewer feathers what difference does it make which one I use.

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I'm with you on the avoidable theory. You'll catch more flies with honey. It's all matter of who you're talking to. I'd go into more detail with my hunting buddies, but all the people at work who don't hunt have to know is that I "arrowed" a deer over the weekend. And those who don't want anything to do with hunting will barely wince.

It's such a small thing when you think about it. How many times do you go on about "killing" a deer to your hunting buddies. Personally, we'll tell one another I "shot" or "arrowed" or "took" a nice deer this weekend. Rarely do we say "killed" or "kill shot." More likely to say "right through the vitals" or name the organs.

Anywhoo, its not that big of a deal to simply avoid. Don't think that's selling out.

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tx, I guess for me it's a matter of principle. The "world" wants us to use words like harvest because it doesn't sound so cruel. Killing a deer isn't cruel at all, not in the least. It's a God given privelage, we kill to eat. Why do I have to change my vocabulary because the when I say I "killed" a deer it doesn't give some a warm fuzzy feeling? Why should I have to say I "harvested" a deer to cause some folks to feel better about it?? Why do I have to play by the politically correct set of rules? I killed the deer, I didn't break the law.......Folks are so damned concerned w/ offending and BEING offended that they expect everyone to play by a nuetral set of rules.

People are who they are. Why not just embrace them for who they are instead of "forcing" them to play by a different set of rules because someone was offended? No thanks.

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OK MOBO, I can understand and respect that position. I don't think I am being forced into anything when I decide to use a "milder" term. The terminology I use really doesn't matter to me so if I can get through a day with offernding one less person I will. I guess that is just my nature. I know I kill. I would do it every day if I could. Heck I try to kill a hog usually at least once a week. So I will continue to kill, or at least try to, on every occasion I can. But MY choice is to fit my vocabulary to the company I may be in at the time. Heck, in deer camp I'll tell the world "i'm going to drop a turd". At work....I don't think so. Sometimes I have to adjust my vocabulary to the situation. That said, I'm going to go drop a turd!

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I hunt, therefor I kill.

I will not deminish what I do by using the word "harvest." The animals I kill are not pen raised, not strictly managed, and aren't planted. They are not crops.

They are living, breathing beings. I kill them.

You don't hunt? That's fine, but realize that I do and the end result is a dead animal.

We aren't going to pacify the anti's by simply using a Disneyappropriate word. We aren't going to sway any "non-hunters" by being politically correct.

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GMMAT, don't be the , what am I looking for, oh, don't be the wuss.:D

I think you did what "you" wanted to do because you wanted to get a message to someone. OK, but that does not mean that everyone has to be so "easy" just to be accepted to the public eye/ear. I have to agree with mobow on this one. I have lived in the country all my life and just about everyone for miles either hunts or fishes. They have always heard the word kill and have accepted it as a way of life. It's the panty-waisted Nancy-girl attitudes of these activists groups that have blurred the minds of people all along. Culture is one thing. The truth is another. If people who grew up in the city shielded from lifes cruel game of survival, then let them remain shielded if that is what they want. Predatorism is not a human against human scenario, but let the gangsta street "killing" be on the evening news and nobody gives a damn how many times the word "kill" is used. Let someone make a hunting video with the words "kill shot" in it and it gets no airplay. This says the truth about what is going on in our society. Nuff Said.

LT

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I totally agree with Mobo .... to many things offend others ... they can go spit ... the ones that get offended are not happy unless they have something to be offended about ..... even if WE bend towards them, they will find"error" elsewhere.

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tx, I understand totally where you are coming from, and your view point (and GMMAT's for that matter) aren't wrong. Not in the least. That's the great thing about people, we are all different and thank God for that! It sure would be boring if we were all robots that thought and spoke the same way. I'm just expressing my view of it, and that doesn't make me right or wrong. It's right to me, and for me. Your view point is right to you, and for you. That's cool.

Neither you nor GMMAT were doing this, but what aggravates me is when someone tries to force their opinion on me. That's not right. There's more than 1 way to skin a rabbit so to speak, and as long as the job gets done, it was the right way to do it.

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Just like I wouldn't say "***dammit" in front of you or "I have to go take a ****" in front of my daughter I would say, "***dammit, I have to go take a ****" in front of of some of my buddies. It is called consideration for your audience. There are people I will cuss in front of and people I won't. I try to be considerate of the other person's sensibilities.

Would any of you like it if you went out to eat and found you and your family sitting at a table next to someone that was cussing and denigrating women and other races? Maybe they don't want to change the way they talk out of principle.

I am willing to bet many of you that won't modify saying "kill" modify other aspects of your language depending on who you might be talking to. To me saying I (took, shot, got, "harvested") the deer instead of killed it is no different.

I do it because I want to be considerate of my audience, NOT because I feel I have to. Big difference.