RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

Bruce ...... give me a break .... you are fooling yourself if you think saying harvest instead of kill is going to make any difference ..... and your examples are a bit extreme friend ......

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

No, I certainly wouldn't. But I would know exactly where they stand, there would be no grey area. I can respect that. Personally, I like a person that can just come out and say how they feel, whether it's morally correct or not.I don't have to agree with it though. I would BET that not a one of us members of HNI are batting 1000 w/ morally correct decisions. It just seems that some moral issues are more offending than others, but they are all equal in principle.

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

Is there such a thing as "light" hypocrisy? If there is, I would have to say this is a prime example.

LT

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

LOL My examples are extreme? Who's really fooling themselves here? Words mean different things to different people. To you, my examples are extreme. To others I know they would think my examples are very good at illustrating the way words can affect people differently. See how my examples affected you ;).

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

The difference between using the words "harvest" and "kill" are quite a bit different than cursing and denigrating women and other racespublicly.

Yes, your examples were extreme.

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

apples and oranges my friend .... you are talking about cussing and racial slurrs ... this convo is about using the word kill .... which is what we do ....

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

Bruce ... your examples only affected me due to the fact they aren't good ones for the convo ;)

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

So, you are saying you would respect someone like that? Sitting in a restaurant with your wife and children you would let them know you respect that guy because he was saying what he felt?

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

Respect him? No, not really, but I respect the fact that he doesn't sugar coat his feelings. Then I pray for him, diligently.

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

Bruce I just killed a pocket gopher that was digging in the ol lady's garden.

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

I thought the convo was about using word(s) that may offend other people. In this case it would be kill instead of harvest. It is still about words that may offend others.

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

Jeff I wouldnt be all broke up if I wasnt allowed on the boob tube due to my choice of words.

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

You're really grasping at straws here, Bruce.

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

When I was a young boy I spent the night with a city boy class mate and we were out plinking around in his back yard with our BB guns. A BlueJay landed in the neighbor ladys back yard andI shot and killed it. I heard this awfull scream and the lady came out clearly in distress and crying. It was the wrong thing to do but even as an 8 year old boy I never forgot the pain I had caused her. ( and the ass whopping I got from Dad) As I grew older and thought about the expierence I realized she loved the bird (animals) as much as I did hunting and eating them. Call it PC or what ever you want butif I'm inpresence of someone that doesn't believe in hunting I will consider their feelings before I open my fat mouth.

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

The only thing I am trying to grasp here is, if you will modify your language and not cuss in front of someone because you do not want to offend them, is why you will intentionally offend someone because you want to say kill instead of harvest.

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

Honestly?

Because I don't care. It isn't the same situation at all, and the fact that you think it is really amuses me. We aren't intentionally trying to offend someone, either. We're just not purposely changing the way we think/feel/speak in order to please someone else.

Anti-hunters don't call us murderers because we're "harvesting" animals.

Would we put a serial killer on death row for "harvesting" human beings? Yes.

Why?

Because he killed them.

Ohmygoodness Dan, what an extreme example. We're talking about animals here, not human beings! :eek:

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

Killing is what we do ... there is NOTHING wrong with it ..... why on earth does it offend? Cussing IS wrong, being defined by the fact that you will NOT do it in front of everybody ....

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

So, offensive words aren't the same situation at all? You don't purposely change the way you talk when your in front of your parents from the way you talk when your in front of your friends? When you grow up you will see that words can be very powerful, the same words can bring some to tears, some to anger and some to laughter. It just depends on who you say them in front of. Like you. You find my words amusing. Others find my words thought provoking and others find my words a little infuriating. Same words, just a different effect on different people.

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

So if you know your words have infuriated some, why did you use THEM, but you wouldn't use the word KILL??;)

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

No, you don't cuss in front of everybody because you don't want to offend them. There is absolutely nothing wrong with cussing we just don't do it in front of everyone because we mayupset someone. If you knew that talking about killing in front of a class of second graders would upset them would you still do it?

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

Because in my 19 years of life I have yet to realize this. :eek:

I'm done with the argument after that comment. Its obvious that my stance won't be taken seriously because I haven't "grown up."

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

I don't mind infuriating a few folks, I just hope I haven't offended anyone ;).

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

No, I believe it to be wrong, and I don't do it in front of anyone.

I teach in a private school, and when I come back with a deer from hunting, all my 2nd graders, as well as the whole school, come running and ask me what I killed it with ...... I don't know any 2nd graders it would offend ....in fact, they think it's cool ...

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

Dan touched on it, and rarely is the day I give him credit, but hey.....:D;)

I don't say the word "kill" to intentionally offend anyone......If in the process I do, I don't really give a hoot, but I don't do it thinking I am going to tick someone off. But I'm not going to deliberately change my wording for fear of offending someone........Besides, it can't be done anyway. You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of time. Someone's gonna be offended somewhere in most cases.

When I was younger I did alter the way I spoke in front of my parents, but only because they would whoop my arse.....Fear of not being able to sit down for a week CAUSED me to change my wording.....

Being older in life I've learned to not really care if someone agrees or disagrees with me. True, some folks feelings matter to me more than others, but I'm not going to change my beliefs or language to please them.

GMMAT phrased his "speech" the way he felt was right. I can roll with that, but that's not the way I roll. Wow, that's got a nifty ring to it.....[8D]

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

Not what I asked you. I asked, If you knew it would upset them would you do it anyway.

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

I would maybe choose a different topic....:D Yes, I would. Truth is truth, and that truth is sometimes upsetting, but it's still the truth. I would talk to them on their level, though, and not include any of the gore.

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

Would you say the word "kill" to intentionally offend someone?

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

not a real situation ....

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

Intentionally? No. That would be vindictive. But I'm not going to use the word "harvest" to avoid it either. You can say you killed something and be quite respectful about it. I think if you sound more barbaric than repsectful, that's where the offense comes in.

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

LT, well said.

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

I thought we were going to lose our hunting rights if we didn't use the word harvest instead of kill? ;)I was told this in my Politically Correct thread that went 18 and some pages this winter.Can we show blood in our pics yet or are we suppossed to be ashamed of a pic if there is some damn blood in it and run it through the shredder? I am usually pretty easy to pick out in a crowd. I have the I don't give a flying $#@$look on my face.I won't water down or roll overand be PC because some pantywaste sissies sat around one day in a tea room and came up with the word harvest instead of kill.

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

PT.....what I like about us is.....we can agree to disagree. The entire premise of the thread was a real life incident. If we wanted this segment to air....we couldn't say "kill". Now....when you weigh your "principles".......how much does the segment not running weigh?

We sometimes have a tough row to hoe with people who don't understand and appreciate our passion. I had a chance to try and shed a little insight on what and why we do things. I jumped on it.

The fact that we had to change a word outweighed maybe not getting it aired.

Now....admittedly....the segment probably still runs if we'd left it in there......it just would have been edited out. At least "harvest" lets 'em know we're killin', right!!...:eek:

Just kidding. I think this subject is VERY polarizing. I know you guys are sincere about your beliefs. I won't belittle that, at all. And I won't call you names becausewe don't see eye to eye. Just know that those of us on the other side are equally convinced we're being "diplomatic" in lieu of being a "sell out". There's no wrong approach. It just might not match your beliefs.

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

Jeff, I think the example you provide is unique because you were referring to a shot on a foam target. You can convey the same message that despite the shot did not score well it was a good shot in so many different ways that the word kill is not necessary.

With that being said, I try to kill every deer I'm shooting at. On the other hand, if I know the word kill is going to offend someone I will respect their feelings and try to avoid using it. If I accidentally offend someone by using the work kill without knowing it would offend them I would apologize for offending them because that was not my intent, but I would make no bones about the fact that killing is what I did.

To me it's more about respecting peoples' feelings than sticking to my guns. Why upset someone with something as silly as a word. Granted, it is silly for them to let a word upset them, but if I can avoid hurting someone's feelings by measuring my words carefully, then why not? As long as someone would pay me the same respect I think a person is more important than a word. Plus, that respect may open a dialogue where the person can learn more about what drives us as hunters.

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

I am not feeling you here HCH:D

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

Although I understand why you changed the wording from what you wanted to say, I can't say that I would have done the same thing or that I think it is the right thing do do.

The constant watering down version of Hunting and "killing" animals is pointless imo. We are not doing anyhing wrong. It's legal and the truth is animals DIE when we are successful. Why call it harvest? What is the point? We all talk about making a good clean ethical "kill" so that the animal does not suffer. That is the truth in what we do and why you were practicing in June. Why not tell that story?

Changed the words to meet other agenda's is a mistake imo.

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

Gus...the "point" is....he wasn't going to let the segment air with that word in it. So...we had "choices". Say "harvest"....and everyone STILL knows the animal died (and we get to cast the light WE wanted to cast on our obsession)...... stick to our (some of us)"convictions".......have him edit it....OR...risk him having someone else do the spot.

We wanted to do the spot.

Hunting "won". Archery "won". NO losers. I don't feel any less a man or a hunter for doing what I felt was the most responsible thing to do in the situation.

The Pittsburgh Pirates had a facial hair rule a few years ago. Wanna play on that team.....keep yourself clean-shaven. Your choice. Stick to your convictions....and play elsewhere. Your choice.

In my mind....I made the right choice.

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

yeah you have to keep the "kill" word out of it

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

I said I understand why you did it and I also understand that had you not changed your words.............well you would have lost the opportunity to speak on TV about our passion.

I understand that we live in a world of compromise. It's up to us to decide if we make a contribution or not. I choose not in this case.

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

Gus....

I understand it's that important to a lot of you guys.

Respect.;)

RE: "Kill" / "Harvest" / "PC"
 

I found this statement from Iamyourhuckleberry very interesting as once again showing why we don't have to worry about being PC and worrying about what the non-hunting public thinks. Here is his quote from the Non-resident fee thread by Greg/MO:

quote:

ORIGINAL: iamyourhuckleberry
Now, let me shed some light. In Colorado, Our hunting industry generates $13 billion/year. That's $6 billion more than our ski industry (if you can believe that). Can you imagine the lose of revenue if Colorado changed their current game laws? Do you think the politicians will allow such an event to occur?

End of quote.

More $$ than skiing even. IMO, be proud of being a hunter and state these types of economic figures to the non-hunting public. We kill and it keeps your tax dollars down Mr. or Mrs. non-hunter and it is also the only viable way to keep animal populations in check.