Would you knowingly break the law?
05-16-2007 | 04:21 PM
#131
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,679
Likes: 0
From: Heaven is my home, temporarily residing in WNY :)
RE: Would you knowingly break the law?
I think if a deer ran 20 yards onto a neighbors land, who had already told you, "no matter what, never come on my land!" , the majority of the guys would just take the 5 minutes to grab the deer and drag it to the property they were hunting ......
if someone says they wouldn't, than they better not be caught going 1 mile/hour over the speed limit!! The epitome of hipocrisy........
There ya go ...... you that say you wouldn't ..... do you go at least 1 mile over the speed limit?
if someone says they wouldn't, than they better not be caught going 1 mile/hour over the speed limit!! The epitome of hipocrisy........
There ya go ...... you that say you wouldn't ..... do you go at least 1 mile over the speed limit?
05-16-2007 | 04:31 PM
#132
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,167
Likes: 0
From: PA
RE: Would you knowingly break the law?
ORIGINAL: bawanajim
This thread has gone a stray. now we have hunters arguing with hunters .
Some of you fail to see the forest for the trees. Most land owners are not hunters! Some are anti hunters. And that too is their right.
By saying you will wantonly disregard the landowners wishes you are only bolstering there personal disregard for our sport.Why give them more ammo in their battle to end the sport we love.
Some of you really need to get some fresh air.
ORIGINAL: PreacherTony
Boy, there are alot of psyco landowners out there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Some of you guys need a life! If a guy shot a deer on his property and retrieved it on my property, WHY WOULD I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT????
For the life of me, I never even thought to ask permission to retrieve a downed deer on someone else's land .... we just do it ..... I have met landowners that way ..... they ALWAYS met up with me and helped me track it ....... it HAS to be a regional thing .... if so, I'm staying here ...to many loony landowners out there looking for a reason to shoot someone ...
Boy, there are alot of psyco landowners out there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Some of you guys need a life! If a guy shot a deer on his property and retrieved it on my property, WHY WOULD I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT????
For the life of me, I never even thought to ask permission to retrieve a downed deer on someone else's land .... we just do it ..... I have met landowners that way ..... they ALWAYS met up with me and helped me track it ....... it HAS to be a regional thing .... if so, I'm staying here ...to many loony landowners out there looking for a reason to shoot someone ...
Some of you fail to see the forest for the trees. Most land owners are not hunters! Some are anti hunters. And that too is their right.
By saying you will wantonly disregard the landowners wishes you are only bolstering there personal disregard for our sport.Why give them more ammo in their battle to end the sport we love.
Some of you really need to get some fresh air.
But just for ****ts & giggles how many yards is it before you are trespassing. 20 yards seems as a go ahead point is 100 yards OK? 1/2 mile ok?
Hey its your deer right??
05-16-2007 | 04:39 PM
#133
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,679
Likes: 0
From: Heaven is my home, temporarily residing in WNY :)
RE: Would you knowingly break the law?
ORIGINAL: bawanajim
I am reposting this because its become obvious some are not reading before they post!!!!!!!!!!
But just for ****ts & giggles how many yards is it before you are trespassing. 20 yards seems as a go ahead point is 100 yards OK? 1/2 mile ok?
Hey its your deer right??
ORIGINAL: bawanajim
This thread has gone a stray. now we have hunters arguing with hunters .
Some of you fail to see the forest for the trees. Most land owners are not hunters! Some are anti hunters. And that too is their right.
By saying you will wantonly disregard the landowners wishes you are only bolstering there personal disregard for our sport.Why give them more ammo in their battle to end the sport we love.
Some of you really need to get some fresh air.
ORIGINAL: PreacherTony
Boy, there are alot of psyco landowners out there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Some of you guys need a life! If a guy shot a deer on his property and retrieved it on my property, WHY WOULD I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT????
For the life of me, I never even thought to ask permission to retrieve a downed deer on someone else's land .... we just do it ..... I have met landowners that way ..... they ALWAYS met up with me and helped me track it ....... it HAS to be a regional thing .... if so, I'm staying here ...to many loony landowners out there looking for a reason to shoot someone ...
Boy, there are alot of psyco landowners out there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Some of you guys need a life! If a guy shot a deer on his property and retrieved it on my property, WHY WOULD I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT????
For the life of me, I never even thought to ask permission to retrieve a downed deer on someone else's land .... we just do it ..... I have met landowners that way ..... they ALWAYS met up with me and helped me track it ....... it HAS to be a regional thing .... if so, I'm staying here ...to many loony landowners out there looking for a reason to shoot someone ...
Some of you fail to see the forest for the trees. Most land owners are not hunters! Some are anti hunters. And that too is their right.
By saying you will wantonly disregard the landowners wishes you are only bolstering there personal disregard for our sport.Why give them more ammo in their battle to end the sport we love.
Some of you really need to get some fresh air.
But just for ****ts & giggles how many yards is it before you are trespassing. 20 yards seems as a go ahead point is 100 yards OK? 1/2 mile ok?
Hey its your deer right??
05-16-2007 | 06:53 PM
#135
Thread Starter
Dominant Buck
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 21,043
Likes: 0
From:
RE: Would you knowingly break the law?
Hey guys....really civil as far as I could tell. That's great.
I actually don't have any issues with any of the answers. i think being honest and saying you'd just go get it is likely the most popular answer.
What bothers me, though, is the "entitlement" mindset. I don't think we're entitled to break the law. I'm not even sying I wouldn't step over and get my deer. I'm not saying that at all. I think there's a 'grey area'. That's being honest. I don't know what that distance is. i guess it's a product of how far the deer is.....how close I am to civilization.....and others.
I'll tell you I love deer and respect them, tremendously. I also respect the rights of private landowners......as I am one. If I can see it.....grab it....and get out of there.....WITHOUT CROSSING A KNOWN BOUNDARY......I'll likely do it.
i also think THE ethical thing to do is to not put ourselves in this situation any more than is NECESSARY. hunt back from the property line if that's what it takes.
Again....luckily....I live in a state where it's a moot point.
It was posed to start a dialogue. I don't think anyone was fighting. It was a good discussion.
Have a great evening.
I actually don't have any issues with any of the answers. i think being honest and saying you'd just go get it is likely the most popular answer.
What bothers me, though, is the "entitlement" mindset. I don't think we're entitled to break the law. I'm not even sying I wouldn't step over and get my deer. I'm not saying that at all. I think there's a 'grey area'. That's being honest. I don't know what that distance is. i guess it's a product of how far the deer is.....how close I am to civilization.....and others.
I'll tell you I love deer and respect them, tremendously. I also respect the rights of private landowners......as I am one. If I can see it.....grab it....and get out of there.....WITHOUT CROSSING A KNOWN BOUNDARY......I'll likely do it.
i also think THE ethical thing to do is to not put ourselves in this situation any more than is NECESSARY. hunt back from the property line if that's what it takes.
Again....luckily....I live in a state where it's a moot point.
It was posed to start a dialogue. I don't think anyone was fighting. It was a good discussion.
Have a great evening.
05-16-2007 | 07:11 PM
#136
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,716
Likes: 0
RE: Would you knowingly break the law?
Jeff - it's not a mindset of entitlement (for me at least) - I actually 100% believe that I am the proper legal owner of that deer, and legally permitted to enter and retrieve it.
To rehash:
This interpretation (authored by the Attorney General's office) states that a hunter has a vested property right in an animal as soon as he SHOOTS it. - you don't have to retrieve it, or tag it - as long as you manifest the immediate intent to, the property rights attach once the bullet/arrow is FIRED. If you go back and read the Pierson case, you'll see where the AG is coming from. It's all in there.
So for those keeping score at home, we now have A, who shoots a deer on his property, mortally wounding it, and it staggers into B's lot and expires. A has a vested property right in that deer - tagged or not. He is "entitled" to it. It is his personal property.
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Now, is it trespassing if A enters B's ground to retrieve his personal property? No.
Why? It's both a public and private necessity, facilitated by both the public health hazard and nuisance of a rotting carcass, and the exigent circumstances surrounding A's need to recover the animal quickly so as his meat does not spoil and create waste. "Waste" is a legal term, and the courts will almost always protect a property owners' right to prevent his own assets from going to waste. Necessity is a complete defense to trespassing.
Our feelings of"entitlement" to our propertyaren't necessarilybased on our own personalopinions,but instead, they're rooted inboth a legal fact and our own desire to do what's right, under the circumstances.
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Bawana - take your medicine, put your quiksilver voodoo doll and your book of magic spells down, andlet the orderlies put your straight jacket back on. [X(]
To rehash:
GAME ‑- ANIMALS ‑- HUNTING ‑- LEGAL RIGHT OF HUNTERS TO TAG ANIMALS SHOT BY OTHER HUNTERS ‑-CRIMES ‑- LARCENY ‑- TAGGING OF AN ANIMAL BAGGED BY ANOTHER.
1. A hunter who lawfully shoots a game animal acquires a vested legal right in such animal provided he continues to manifest an immediate intention to possess it by exercising actual physical possession and by tagging.
2. Where a second hunter shoots and tags a dying animal bagged by another while the first hunter is attempting to reduce it to possession, the second hunter is guilty of larceny if all other elements of the crime are present.
1. A hunter who lawfully shoots a game animal acquires a vested legal right in such animal provided he continues to manifest an immediate intention to possess it by exercising actual physical possession and by tagging.
2. Where a second hunter shoots and tags a dying animal bagged by another while the first hunter is attempting to reduce it to possession, the second hunter is guilty of larceny if all other elements of the crime are present.
So for those keeping score at home, we now have A, who shoots a deer on his property, mortally wounding it, and it staggers into B's lot and expires. A has a vested property right in that deer - tagged or not. He is "entitled" to it. It is his personal property.
___________________________________________
Now, is it trespassing if A enters B's ground to retrieve his personal property? No.
Why? It's both a public and private necessity, facilitated by both the public health hazard and nuisance of a rotting carcass, and the exigent circumstances surrounding A's need to recover the animal quickly so as his meat does not spoil and create waste. "Waste" is a legal term, and the courts will almost always protect a property owners' right to prevent his own assets from going to waste. Necessity is a complete defense to trespassing.
Our feelings of"entitlement" to our propertyaren't necessarilybased on our own personalopinions,but instead, they're rooted inboth a legal fact and our own desire to do what's right, under the circumstances.
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you will never climb above your miserable life in the concrete jungle. I hope you enjoy yourself absorbedexistence while breathing the stench filled air your neighborspollute with rotting garbage and whining kids. It will be only in your dreams that you are able to hunt anywhere near me and it will be in that same dream you will bag your first deer. Only to have it run and die on the transit authority train tracks that boarder your wilderness.[
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05-16-2007 | 07:38 PM
#137
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 676
Likes: 0
From: Central Minnesota
RE: Would you knowingly break the law?
ditto. not an entitlement thing to me but just getting the deer I shot so as not to go to waste. I don't think I'm entitled to anyone else's property and would get in and out as quick as I could without damaging anything.
