Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
04-14-2007, 06:58 AM
#81
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 1997
Location: Cheasapeke and Delaware Bay Region
Posts: 10,485
RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
Well, me and DavidM are retired, wellI'm semi retired and can put as much time into hunting as we want. It all boils down to the piece of land you have to hunt and where it is located.You can still put your prioty's first but if the genes arn't there no matter what you do will produce a 150.In the mountains of western Md you are lucky to see anything 110 or larger but I have seen a few 125-130" come out of them foothills which only prove there are a few better deer everywhere, even in Fl. if the pictures I have seen are real
.Heck I might even ride my Harley to the deer woods but have David bring it home. Don't want to get it all bloodied up.
.Heck I might even ride my Harley to the deer woods but have David bring it home. Don't want to get it all bloodied up.
04-14-2007, 07:59 AM
#82
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,102
RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
You are not bursting my bubble in any way.I am sure you understand what I was saying.Had you spent that same time and effort in my surrounding area you would have not likely seen one Pope and Young qualifier much less killed two.
I congratulate you on your success and I absolutely know your success came with much hard work.
I will say again,you can't kill what is not there.For me in my home area which constitutes about 30 miles in all directions,I have to balance my business committments,my family committments and my love of hunting.So I have chosen given those considerations to do my hunting locally,because I can make it fit without short changing my other responsibilities.(I am in no way suggesting that you are short changing any thing)
The single most key ingredient in killing big deer is to have them exist in reasonable numbers in the area or area's that you hunt.There are countless examples in the B&C record book and the P&Y record books of where the highest percentage of big deer are being taken.You can count on one hand the P&Y qualifiers from Ulster County New York,with no B&C qualifiers ever.I would be very surprised if Central Illinois didn't have hundreds of qualifiers.Suffice to say all of our opportunities at killing big deer are different.
I congratulate you on your success and I absolutely know your success came with much hard work.
I will say again,you can't kill what is not there.For me in my home area which constitutes about 30 miles in all directions,I have to balance my business committments,my family committments and my love of hunting.So I have chosen given those considerations to do my hunting locally,because I can make it fit without short changing my other responsibilities.(I am in no way suggesting that you are short changing any thing)
The single most key ingredient in killing big deer is to have them exist in reasonable numbers in the area or area's that you hunt.There are countless examples in the B&C record book and the P&Y record books of where the highest percentage of big deer are being taken.You can count on one hand the P&Y qualifiers from Ulster County New York,with no B&C qualifiers ever.I would be very surprised if Central Illinois didn't have hundreds of qualifiers.Suffice to say all of our opportunities at killing big deer are different.
04-14-2007, 08:30 AM
#83
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location:
Posts: 56
RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
ORIGINAL: pjhunts
Okay, can you all hear me from my high pedestal here where the P&Y's are tripping over each other to come by my setup, Let me colaborate a little on the point I was trying to make. I arrowed a P&y the 3rd yr I bowhunted(strictly luck) then went for a drought that lasted almost 20 YEARS. Yes almost 20 yrs here where there's one under every rock. Then I consciously made the choice to sacrafice other stuff that I enjoyed and focus on the pursuit of a decent buck. I ate a few more tags, while passing on young deer that i would normally be happy zipping an arrow through, but then things started to change, plans started to come together, my style of hunting evolved and I started to reap the benefits. I t is now 6 years later and I've taken 7 bucks that will score over the P& Y minimum. It's not that there weren't any good bucks here for my long dry spell, I just didn't have the desire, passion, or whatever you call it to sit out in the woods from daylight to dark, through pouring rain, freezing cold, other hunters tripping over me, etc,, to get the job done. Every single day of the year i think about deer hunting. It may be as simple aslooking for deer while driving down the road or shed hunting or scouting, anything that might tip me off to a big buck. I'm by no means rich, I work full time and them some building scaffold, help my father farm, I burn fire wood year round, and I still find plenty of time for my family of 4 childern and my wife and am still able to hunt quite a bit. During the heat of summer, I pick anywhere from 100 -130 gallons of black berries to provide for my hunting endeavors, so as not to spend any of our "regular" money and take away from my family's financial needs.We budget our money so that I am able to take off as much work as I can afford during hunting season. My wife is very understanding, and she too has a great desire to pursue big bucks. When I say that i hunt quite a bit would be an understatement compared to what most others hunt. The year before last I logged ~500 hours in the woods, last year I had to work more and was only able to hunt around 300 hours. When I'm not working, hunting is my "job". I by no means find it easy and sometimes it's not all that enjoyable, but that's just fuel for my fire.
I do realize that there are some exceptions, like the guys that hunt in florida and other places of the like, that there is a limited #(if any)ofP&Y deer. but that doesn't mean that there is no hope. I believe that age grows bigger antlers, so by letting a buck that you would normally shoot go for a year or two, he is going to grow a lot more in inches. I know what most would now say, "Well around here, if I don't shoot him so and so over there will" I know this because that is what I used to say. Ive long since kicked that motto to the curb. I've been hunting public land and have nice young bucks stroll by that another hunter was also watching, and they would always be shocked that i didn't shoot it. Obviously not everyone would do that, but that to is one of the sacrafices that I've learn to make. Realistically, odds are that the guy over there will never have the opportunity to shoot the deer that you've just passed on. And there are even higher odds that you will ever see that deer again. that is just a chance that you have to be willing to take.
I dunno, Ive kind of lost track of what I was wanting to get across, but just want to note that EVERYONE goes through a learning curve and progression in their hunting careers, some just get stuck in some phases longer than others, some may never reach the pinnacle, I know that i have a long way to go, but feel that I'm on the right track. Also, there is no sure fire method, no magic call or scent that is going to do it for you. A lot of hard work, effort, and yes, sacrafices are necessary to move to the next level of progression.
As a sidenote, I only use the term P&Y because it is a common reference, I value the age of a buck a lot more than the inches on it's head.
Okay, can you all hear me from my high pedestal here where the P&Y's are tripping over each other to come by my setup
, Let me colaborate a little on the point I was trying to make. I arrowed a P&y the 3rd yr I bowhunted(strictly luck) then went for a drought that lasted almost 20 YEARS. Yes almost 20 yrs here where there's one under every rock. Then I consciously made the choice to sacrafice other stuff that I enjoyed and focus on the pursuit of a decent buck. I ate a few more tags, while passing on young deer that i would normally be happy zipping an arrow through, but then things started to change, plans started to come together, my style of hunting evolved and I started to reap the benefits. I t is now 6 years later and I've taken 7 bucks that will score over the P& Y minimum. It's not that there weren't any good bucks here for my long dry spell, I just didn't have the desire, passion, or whatever you call it to sit out in the woods from daylight to dark, through pouring rain, freezing cold, other hunters tripping over me, etc,, to get the job done. Every single day of the year i think about deer hunting. It may be as simple aslooking for deer while driving down the road or shed hunting or scouting, anything that might tip me off to a big buck. I'm by no means rich, I work full time and them some building scaffold, help my father farm, I burn fire wood year round, and I still find plenty of time for my family of 4 childern and my wife and am still able to hunt quite a bit. During the heat of summer, I pick anywhere from 100 -130 gallons of black berries to provide for my hunting endeavors, so as not to spend any of our "regular" money and take away from my family's financial needs.We budget our money so that I am able to take off as much work as I can afford during hunting season. My wife is very understanding, and she too has a great desire to pursue big bucks. When I say that i hunt quite a bit would be an understatement compared to what most others hunt. The year before last I logged ~500 hours in the woods, last year I had to work more and was only able to hunt around 300 hours. When I'm not working, hunting is my "job". I by no means find it easy and sometimes it's not all that enjoyable, but that's just fuel for my fire. I do realize that there are some exceptions, like the guys that hunt in florida and other places of the like, that there is a limited #(if any)ofP&Y deer. but that doesn't mean that there is no hope. I believe that age grows bigger antlers, so by letting a buck that you would normally shoot go for a year or two, he is going to grow a lot more in inches. I know what most would now say, "Well around here, if I don't shoot him so and so over there will" I know this because that is what I used to say. Ive long since kicked that motto to the curb. I've been hunting public land and have nice young bucks stroll by that another hunter was also watching, and they would always be shocked that i didn't shoot it. Obviously not everyone would do that, but that to is one of the sacrafices that I've learn to make. Realistically, odds are that the guy over there will never have the opportunity to shoot the deer that you've just passed on. And there are even higher odds that you will ever see that deer again. that is just a chance that you have to be willing to take.
I dunno, Ive kind of lost track of what I was wanting to get across, but just want to note that EVERYONE goes through a learning curve and progression in their hunting careers, some just get stuck in some phases longer than others, some may never reach the pinnacle, I know that i have a long way to go, but feel that I'm on the right track. Also, there is no sure fire method, no magic call or scent that is going to do it for you. A lot of hard work, effort, and yes, sacrafices are necessary to move to the next level of progression.
As a sidenote, I only use the term P&Y because it is a common reference, I value the age of a buck a lot more than the inches on it's head.
04-14-2007, 09:00 AM
#84
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 4,668
RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
Don?
How do you explain the statement on page 132 I mentioned??
ORIGINAL: Outdoor writer
My issue at this time is that people are somehow getting the notion that I promote taking time from family to chase big bucks. I thought my book clearly emphasized the importance of family and friends ABOVE hunting. I started the book with that theme and ended it with that same idea. It is the other things in life, our hobbies if you will, that I am suggesting MAY be preventing SOME hunters from tagging the class of buck that they desire. (also our jobs and financial commitments) Heck I also say that if you are happy with what you are killing then GREAT! it is your life, have fun ... just dont make excuses or belittle others who have made sacrifices in terms of OTHER INTERESTS (not family)to devote more time to hunting.
My issue at this time is that people are somehow getting the notion that I promote taking time from family to chase big bucks. I thought my book clearly emphasized the importance of family and friends ABOVE hunting. I started the book with that theme and ended it with that same idea. It is the other things in life, our hobbies if you will, that I am suggesting MAY be preventing SOME hunters from tagging the class of buck that they desire. (also our jobs and financial commitments) Heck I also say that if you are happy with what you are killing then GREAT! it is your life, have fun ... just dont make excuses or belittle others who have made sacrifices in terms of OTHER INTERESTS (not family)to devote more time to hunting.
04-15-2007, 04:57 AM
#85
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 1997
Location: Cheasapeke and Delaware Bay Region
Posts: 10,485
RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
Atlas, what is this statement you have refered to a couple of times, I might have missed it in this 9 page thread somewhere if you posted it. I don't have the book to see for myself.
04-15-2007, 06:54 AM
#86
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 21,043
RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
A better quote to read is on page 132 where you tell everyone that their goal should reflect the time they are willing to sacrifice from from other activities including work and family.
He's said HIMSELF....right here....that he's not CONDONING spending time away from family and work.....but it stands to reason that those who DO spend MORE TIME in the deer woods (for WHATEVER reason) are going to reap benefits. If you skip the family picnic to practice putting.....you're likely to become a better putter, too. Does that mean that everyone that makes that choice is doing the RIGHT thing? Nope. But to diminish their accomplishments.....BASED SOLELY ON THE FACT THAT YOU'RE NOT WILLING TO MAKE THE SAME SACRIFICES.....is very transparent.
I'm not willing to forego my family's vacations to save that earmarked money for deer hunting gear or trips. Some are. I'm happy with my hunting, though.....and I don't think less of the people who do these type things. If it works, for them.....who am I to question it.
It's easy for us to generalize and criticize others for sacrifices we're not willing to make. Somehow....I guess it helps our egos to think they're doing something 'wrong'.....or taking advantage of others for their own, selfish gain.I don't live in "their" world, though. I'm certainly not going to make light of their accomplishments.....SOLELY on the "notion" that they're obviously bad men for doing the things they do.
That's just petty.
Foget the P&Y references. They mean nothing, to me, and I'm "guessing" they meant nothing to the author's INTENDED purpose forciting them. TheFACTS are....if we'd implement ADDITIONAL, "tried and true trophy buck" "tactics".....we'd ALL have a better chance of scoring onthe best "TROPHIES" "OUR" woods held. The size of said "trophies"IS relative to your woods. That shouldn't even have to be pointed out.
I've ordered your book, Don.....and I've read Joe Brooks.....and related HIS writings to help me find the best deer in MY woods. The deer he cites in his book DON'TEXIST in mine. That has LITTLE to do withwhat a "trophy" deer isthose same woods. I'm intelligent enough to relate the tactics cited.....and apply to my own situation.
Welcome to the forums.....and I'm guessingyou needn't worry about your popularity, here.
04-15-2007, 08:00 AM
#87
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location:
Posts: 56
RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
ORIGINAL: GMMAT
I won't speak for the author (he's doing a fine job of "defending" himself.....though he shouldn't HAVE to), but LITERALLY.....I don't se ehow anyone could have an issue with this way of thinking.
He's said HIMSELF....right here....that he's not CONDONING spending time away from family and work.....but it stands to reason that those who DO spend MORE TIME in the deer woods (for WHATEVER reason) are going to reap benefits. If you skip the family picnic to practice putting.....you're likely to become a better putter, too. Does that mean that everyone that makes that choice is doing the RIGHT thing? Nope. But to diminish their accomplishments.....BASED SOLELY ON THE FACT THAT YOU'RE NOT WILLING TO MAKE THE SAME SACRIFICES.....is very transparent.
I'm not willing to forego my family's vacations to save that earmarked money for deer hunting gear or trips. Some are. I'm happy with my hunting, though.....and I don't think less of the people who do these type things. If it works, for them.....who am I to question it.
It's easy for us to generalize and criticize others for sacrifices we're not willing to make. Somehow....I guess it helps our egos to think they're doing something 'wrong'.....or taking advantage of others for their own, selfish gain.I don't live in "their" world, though. I'm certainly not going to make light of their accomplishments.....SOLELY on the "notion" that they're obviously bad men for doing the things they do.
That's just petty.
Foget the P&Y references. They mean nothing, to me, and I'm "guessing" they meant nothing to the author's INTENDED purpose forciting them. TheFACTS are....if we'd implement ADDITIONAL, "tried and true trophy buck" "tactics".....we'd ALL have a better chance of scoring onthe best "TROPHIES" "OUR" woods held. The size of said "trophies"IS relative to your woods. That shouldn't even have to be pointed out.
I've ordered your book, Don.....and I've read Joe Brooks.....and related HIS writings to help me find the best deer in MY woods. The deer he cites in his book DON'TEXIST in mine. That has LITTLE to do withwhat a "trophy" deer isthose same woods. I'm intelligent enough to relate the tactics cited.....and apply to my own situation.
Welcome to the forums.....and I'm guessingyou needn't worry about your popularity, here.
I won't speak for the author (he's doing a fine job of "defending" himself.....though he shouldn't HAVE to), but LITERALLY.....I don't se ehow anyone could have an issue with this way of thinking.
He's said HIMSELF....right here....that he's not CONDONING spending time away from family and work.....but it stands to reason that those who DO spend MORE TIME in the deer woods (for WHATEVER reason) are going to reap benefits. If you skip the family picnic to practice putting.....you're likely to become a better putter, too. Does that mean that everyone that makes that choice is doing the RIGHT thing? Nope. But to diminish their accomplishments.....BASED SOLELY ON THE FACT THAT YOU'RE NOT WILLING TO MAKE THE SAME SACRIFICES.....is very transparent.
I'm not willing to forego my family's vacations to save that earmarked money for deer hunting gear or trips. Some are. I'm happy with my hunting, though.....and I don't think less of the people who do these type things. If it works, for them.....who am I to question it.
It's easy for us to generalize and criticize others for sacrifices we're not willing to make. Somehow....I guess it helps our egos to think they're doing something 'wrong'.....or taking advantage of others for their own, selfish gain.I don't live in "their" world, though. I'm certainly not going to make light of their accomplishments.....SOLELY on the "notion" that they're obviously bad men for doing the things they do.
That's just petty.
Foget the P&Y references. They mean nothing, to me, and I'm "guessing" they meant nothing to the author's INTENDED purpose forciting them. TheFACTS are....if we'd implement ADDITIONAL, "tried and true trophy buck" "tactics".....we'd ALL have a better chance of scoring onthe best "TROPHIES" "OUR" woods held. The size of said "trophies"IS relative to your woods. That shouldn't even have to be pointed out.
I've ordered your book, Don.....and I've read Joe Brooks.....and related HIS writings to help me find the best deer in MY woods. The deer he cites in his book DON'TEXIST in mine. That has LITTLE to do withwhat a "trophy" deer isthose same woods. I'm intelligent enough to relate the tactics cited.....and apply to my own situation.
Welcome to the forums.....and I'm guessingyou needn't worry about your popularity, here.
Very well said Jeff. I have noticed from a number of your posts that you get it. None of us can fully understand anothers situation without walking in their shoes. It is easy to assume things about others and throw a negative tone towards their accomplishments to pacify our own fragile egos as we hide behind a made up "handle" and a keyboard. Nobody here truly knows my family situation (even by reading a book)nor do I know anyone elses situation. We all have to decide what we want out of deer hunting and balance that with the effort and time we are willing put towards it. If we want more out of it than the "average" hunter, then we personally have to decide where that extra time is going to come from. I have described how I personally gave up other intereststo make more time for hunting butI have no issue with anyone elses decisions until they try to belittle my choices while knowing next to nothing about me and how I live my life. My primary issue comes from people making excuses for someone elses success or their ownlack of success.
04-15-2007, 08:47 AM
#89
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Mont County, Pa
Posts: 7,368
RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
Don, isn't it a shame that some folks make you feel the need to defend something you wrote in a book that they chose to read? If they don't agree with it, that's fine, butthen drop it. The bottom line is, as a great Black public speaker oncesaid, "if you like what you're getting, keep doing what you're doing"!
Personally, I don't find the type of buck that I reallywant to kill here in Pa. This is why I save all year for a trip to the Edmonton Bow Zone in Alberta, where I KNOW huge bucks live, and where I have a chance at killing one.I think it simply gets down tohow important it is for a hunter to take a big buck, and whathe or she iswilling to do to achieve this. Thoughts?
Personally, I don't find the type of buck that I reallywant to kill here in Pa. This is why I save all year for a trip to the Edmonton Bow Zone in Alberta, where I KNOW huge bucks live, and where I have a chance at killing one.I think it simply gets down tohow important it is for a hunter to take a big buck, and whathe or she iswilling to do to achieve this. Thoughts?
04-15-2007, 08:56 AM
#90
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 4,668
RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
ORIGINAL: GMMAT
He's said HIMSELF....right here....that he's not CONDONING spending time away from family and work
He's said HIMSELF....right here....that he's not CONDONING spending time away from family and work
But to diminish their accomplishments.....BASED SOLELY ON THE FACT THAT YOU'RE NOT WILLING TO MAKE THE SAME SACRIFICES.....is very transparent.
I'm not willing to forego my family's vacations to save that earmarked money for deer hunting gear or trips. Some are. I'm happy with my hunting, though.
It's easy for us to generalize and criticize others for sacrifices we're not willing to make.
Somehow....I guess it helps our egos to think they're doing something 'wrong'.....or taking advantage of others for their own, selfish gain.I don't live in "their" world, though. I'm certainly not going to make light of their accomplishments.....SOLELY on the "notion" that they're obviously bad men for doing the things they do.
That's just petty.
That's just petty.
Foget the P&Y references. They mean nothing, to me