Are Crossbows Considered Archery???
04-06-2007, 06:22 PM
#71
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,149
RE: Are Crossbows Considered Archery???
If you lookat this person the(clown) has started this BS on a couple of sites, he's just trying to stir up the pot. If any one cares we pay as much FEDERAL TAX on crossbow stuff, and they consider itARCHERY EQUIPEMENT NOT A GUN butARCHERY< ARCHERY. Rich
04-06-2007, 07:31 PM
#72
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Blossvale, New York
Posts: 21,199
RE: Are Crossbows Considered Archery???
ORIGINAL: GR8atta2d
To us No, to them Yes... While I try not to look down my nose at them, it's tough..probably like tradionalists look at compound users??
Just my honest opinion.
To us No, to them Yes... While I try not to look down my nose at them, it's tough..probably like tradionalists look at compound users??
Just my honest opinion.
04-07-2007, 08:18 AM
#73
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Altmar New York USA
Posts: 1,247
RE: Are Crossbows Considered Archery???
In my opinion a gun is a gun, a compound is a compound, and recurve is a recurve, and a crossbow is a crossbow. Guns have separate seasons, bows (compund & traditional only)have separate season, so crossbows should be a separate season. Just becasue a crossbow has limbs, string, and fires a shorter arrow called a bolt, doesn't put it in the same catagory as archery. The crossbow is always cocked and loaded, ready to fire, mounted on a stock, shoulder held, fired strictly by a trigger release, is drawn into position by a crank or use of the foot. Therefore why isn't the question ever asked, is the crossbow a gun?
I feel, and always have if you don't have to draw it back by hand, physically hold it in the firing position, and release a string by hand(or hand held rel aid)to let the projectile go, being a arrow shaft. Then its NOT ARCHERY. Regardless how so many look at it. I don't understand why so many feel this weapon belongs or needs to be in Archery only seasons. Especially when all one has to do is take the time to learn and shoot a bow of some type. Perhaps its the fact the crossbow is a much easier weapon to shoot properly taking less practice to master. I watched a show once, where some city teenagers who have never ever fired a gun or bow pick up a crossbow, and hit their target dead nuts at 20yds the first few shots. They are easier to shoot than a bow, pure & simple. Is it fair to all the hunters who have spend hrs, and yrs mastering the art of archery to have other hunters who are not willing to take the time to learn to shoot a bowinto the same woods at the same time? If you want to hunt earlier during archery season, then learn to shoot a friggen bow!! Archery hunters are a proud group, and we welcome anyone thats wants to enjoy the art, and pursue game with a bow. You read countless posts on here how so many lend advice, and help the beginner, and troubled. Why ruin it by a weapon thats not the same.
Where do we draw the line. Do we next allow rifles for turkey hunting, machine guns for deer hunting, heck lets throw in some dynomite while at it. Better yet just open 1 season, and use whatever friggen weapon ya like!! [:'(]I fully understand we all as hunters need to stick together. But we also have to protect what we consider ethical, and traditional. The crossbow lobbyists are the ones that started this fight, not the bow hunters. Can you blame us for wanting to protect what bowhunters have worked yrs, and yrs to gain. What would our archery ancestors think like Fred Bear, Ben Pearson, David Martin, and countless others that spent yrs, and yrs to get where we are today.
Why don't the crossbow lobbyists fight for their own season, why is it always archery season? Here in NY why not put crossbows strictly in w/muzzleloading season?
Far as the handicapped I feel for you I really do, and thats the one area I wouldn't mind seeing the laws lessoned on if thats the only means to keep a person hunting. But their is also otherwaysfor the handicapped to use a compound or traditional equipment. There are many devices now available for the handicapped to place on their bow to aid them in its use. 1 big example is a draw lock device. In NY these are attainable with the modified bow permit. If I were handicapped ya dam well bet I'd have one myself to use my compound still!
So all you crossbow users, and lovers walk your own line. Fight your own fight. Let archery remain as true archery. Stop trying to taint what we've worked so hard for. If crossbow hunting had its own separate season outside of archery season I'd even be interesting in trying it out. It'd be something different. I think the crossbow is a neat weapon, but in its own place!
I feel, and always have if you don't have to draw it back by hand, physically hold it in the firing position, and release a string by hand(or hand held rel aid)to let the projectile go, being a arrow shaft. Then its NOT ARCHERY. Regardless how so many look at it. I don't understand why so many feel this weapon belongs or needs to be in Archery only seasons. Especially when all one has to do is take the time to learn and shoot a bow of some type. Perhaps its the fact the crossbow is a much easier weapon to shoot properly taking less practice to master. I watched a show once, where some city teenagers who have never ever fired a gun or bow pick up a crossbow, and hit their target dead nuts at 20yds the first few shots. They are easier to shoot than a bow, pure & simple. Is it fair to all the hunters who have spend hrs, and yrs mastering the art of archery to have other hunters who are not willing to take the time to learn to shoot a bowinto the same woods at the same time? If you want to hunt earlier during archery season, then learn to shoot a friggen bow!! Archery hunters are a proud group, and we welcome anyone thats wants to enjoy the art, and pursue game with a bow. You read countless posts on here how so many lend advice, and help the beginner, and troubled. Why ruin it by a weapon thats not the same.
Where do we draw the line. Do we next allow rifles for turkey hunting, machine guns for deer hunting, heck lets throw in some dynomite while at it. Better yet just open 1 season, and use whatever friggen weapon ya like!! [:'(]I fully understand we all as hunters need to stick together. But we also have to protect what we consider ethical, and traditional. The crossbow lobbyists are the ones that started this fight, not the bow hunters. Can you blame us for wanting to protect what bowhunters have worked yrs, and yrs to gain. What would our archery ancestors think like Fred Bear, Ben Pearson, David Martin, and countless others that spent yrs, and yrs to get where we are today.
Why don't the crossbow lobbyists fight for their own season, why is it always archery season? Here in NY why not put crossbows strictly in w/muzzleloading season?
Far as the handicapped I feel for you I really do, and thats the one area I wouldn't mind seeing the laws lessoned on if thats the only means to keep a person hunting. But their is also otherwaysfor the handicapped to use a compound or traditional equipment. There are many devices now available for the handicapped to place on their bow to aid them in its use. 1 big example is a draw lock device. In NY these are attainable with the modified bow permit. If I were handicapped ya dam well bet I'd have one myself to use my compound still!
So all you crossbow users, and lovers walk your own line. Fight your own fight. Let archery remain as true archery. Stop trying to taint what we've worked so hard for. If crossbow hunting had its own separate season outside of archery season I'd even be interesting in trying it out. It'd be something different. I think the crossbow is a neat weapon, but in its own place!
04-07-2007, 11:12 AM
#74
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Moravia NY USA
Posts: 2,164
RE: Are Crossbows Considered Archery???
1 big example is a draw lock device.
Still looking for an answer to may question - are the anti xbowers willing to outlaw pop up blinds with shoot threw windows? After all, they hideALL movement from the game - probably a greater advantage then any xbow offers.
Steve
04-07-2007, 12:15 PM
#75
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Blossvale, New York
Posts: 21,199
RE: Are Crossbows Considered Archery???
Whatever Steve, I don't use pop up blinds or shoot through windows either. I don't care if you outlaw them. LOL If they outlaw pop up blinds people will have to go back to building natural blinds. [8D]
04-07-2007, 12:19 PM
#76
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Lake County, Il
Posts: 2,205
RE: Are Crossbows Considered Archery???
In IL and WI, it's illegal to use a bow with any device that holds the bow at full draw. I think the reason they're illegal is for this reason. You can't use a compound bow with a draw holding device either.
04-07-2007, 01:18 PM
#77
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location:
Posts: 131
RE: Are Crossbows Considered Archery???
Rich,
For a 63 year old man, I would expect a little more out of you! (Ha! Ha!) You poor thing. Why are you so angry??? Your insults, although funny,are as meaningless asyour opinion.
Hang in there, it will get better!
For a 63 year old man, I would expect a little more out of you! (Ha! Ha!) You poor thing. Why are you so angry??? Your insults, although funny,are as meaningless asyour opinion.
Hang in there, it will get better!
04-07-2007, 05:44 PM
#78
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,288
RE: Are Crossbows Considered Archery???
h
Big John
Now I never said You thought it was shot like a compound or traditional bow, You made it clear in your opening statement, that it was not!
I call it a crossbow, have since I was about 5 years old, my Grandchildern call it a crossbow, even said it has a bow on it
.
As far as the word Crossbow not having the word gun in it, It's because Crossbows came befor guns.
Since it has a gun stock and is Shot like a GUN, If gun's had been made first, do you honestly believe it would have not been called a Bowgun, Boltgun, Gunbow, or yes, even aArrowgunor somthing of that sort.? In other words since the invention of the gun, and everythingmade since the gun,with a pistol grip, or a gun stock, has been called a gun of some sort, Air Gun, Water Gun, Ratchet Gun, Grease Gun, BB Gun, ect, ect, Yet none of these Gun's launch a projectile from a ignited powderd propellant!
We could pick each others post's apart for days, but let's get back to the real Issue at hand, Is it Archery!
You claim it is because it has a bow , I say, once you lay a Bolt in the track of a crossbow, The Archer has left the Building! Again, No Archer, No Archery.
It takes Zero archery skills to shoot a crossbow, no matter how many Bow and Arrow components it is made up of! And I'm sure you know this as well.
And let me end by saying, I'm not the bad guy here, I helped to get it so Handicaped Bowhunters could hunt with a Crossbow during Archery season. I'm all for them having their own season.
The Bad guy's are Crossbow manufactures spending hundred's of thousands of dollars, maybe millions, and archery shop owner's trying to open up our Archery season for a whole new market for their profit, and Gun Hunters that will jump at the chance to Chisel away at even more of our Archery season. We have already went from a once generous 75 day season in my state,to 45 from these special intrest group's, not counting the early youth season a week befor Archery season opens.
Some states with low Hunter numbers, it may not make a differance, (They always use OHIO as an example)I think my State sold somthimg like 650,000 deer tag's last year (someone correct me if I'm wrong) If you take 1/4 of that who would hunt with a crossbow (just guessing) your looking at an additional 162,500 thrown into our archery season and public hunting land.
Like I said, I'm just your average John trying to keep Archery season for Archers. If someone wants to hunt Archery season they can aquire a Bow and some Arrows and learn to be an Archer, If not, they can hunt with a gun or Gun type fired bolt launcher in their 3 Gun season's where it belongs.
ORIGINAL: BigJ12
Sliver,
You will get no arguments from meabout how a crossbow is shot. Most are shouldered like a rifle.
My only contention is they are more like a bow than a firearm. Bows use energy stored in their limbs and propel a "projectile" by the use of a string.
Firearms use energy from exploded gun powder to propel their "projectile" BIG difference in their basic operations.
Since you are so hung up on proper names and the word archer, please tell me where in the word crossbow do you see anything that makes mention to a firearm????
It's called a crossbow because it's a BOW mounted transversely on a stock. It's not a firearm with a bow mounted on it...oops, there I go again using the word bow. It's tough not to when it's in the name of the weapon you are trying to describe......but it's not a bow....nah
I never said it's shot like a compound or traditional bow, all I said is that it's more like a bow than a firearm.....and it is.
ORIGINAL: Sliverflicker
ORIGINAL: BigJ12
While it is shot completely different than a compound or traditional bow,the basic mechanical principles arethe same for all three. They all utilize energy stored in the limbs and propel an arrow by the use of a string. You can callit a bolt all you want and indeed that's it's proper name butwe all know it's just a short arrow. It has a tip/broadhead, insert,shaft (wood, aluminum, fiberglass or carbon fiber construction) nock and fletchings just likea compound or traditionalbows arrows do........it's an arrow.They both have the same effective range as well.
BigJohn, looks like were going tobutt head's on this one!
Your right, it is shot completely different, Just like a Rifle! It takes the Archer out of Archery.
And Your alsoright that they do share (some) of the same basic mechanical principles, but so does ariding Lawn Mower, a Motorcycle, and a M1 Tank! When they bolted it to a Rifle stock, they cut the Archer out of the picture.
You will not find the word Crossbow in Webster's under Archer or Archery, only Bow and Arrow's.
A shooter that uses a Crossbow is called a Crossbowman not an Archer.
I will call it a Bolt (shaft or missile for a Crossbow) You can call it a short arrow.
Do Bolt's have nock's on them now? (I don't know)
About 22 or 23 years ago I went to a 3D shoot that had a Crossbow set up for 100 yards,I shot 5 out of 5 in a paper plate at that distance the first time I everpicked one up, and I'm sure they have improved some what over that time, So I don't buy that same effective range as a compound.
I personally don't care if people want to separate the seasons or lump them together with the regular archery season, makes no difference to me. But make no mistake about it a crossbow is archery tackle and no amount ofdistain or hatred for it will change that fact.
Well it make's a difference to me in this state, they can use one in the early youth season a week befor Bow season opens, the Handycap season in the middle of Oct, the regular 15 day Rifle season in Nov, the 10 day Black Powder season in Dec, or the other 10 day late Rifle season in Dec, or if there incapable of shooting a Bow they can get a Doctors slip, and Hunt everyone's season.
John just because you say so, don't make it so, Fact is a Crossbow is half Bow, Half Gun, SHOT like a Gun, now try and spell Archery when you remove the Archer!
No distain or hatred here, Just trying to keep Archery season for Archer's for the last 23 years or so.
Everybody is going to have a different perception as to how "archery like" the shooting of a crossbow is. Some will think it more archery and some will not but that doesn't change what the weapon is.
Mark me down in the will not column, because I consider it a Gunbow, shot like a Gun, with no Archer involved!
While it is shot completely different than a compound or traditional bow,the basic mechanical principles arethe same for all three. They all utilize energy stored in the limbs and propel an arrow by the use of a string. You can callit a bolt all you want and indeed that's it's proper name butwe all know it's just a short arrow. It has a tip/broadhead, insert,shaft (wood, aluminum, fiberglass or carbon fiber construction) nock and fletchings just likea compound or traditionalbows arrows do........it's an arrow.They both have the same effective range as well.
BigJohn, looks like were going tobutt head's on this one!
Your right, it is shot completely different, Just like a Rifle! It takes the Archer out of Archery.
And Your alsoright that they do share (some) of the same basic mechanical principles, but so does ariding Lawn Mower, a Motorcycle, and a M1 Tank! When they bolted it to a Rifle stock, they cut the Archer out of the picture.
You will not find the word Crossbow in Webster's under Archer or Archery, only Bow and Arrow's.
A shooter that uses a Crossbow is called a Crossbowman not an Archer.
I will call it a Bolt (shaft or missile for a Crossbow) You can call it a short arrow.
Do Bolt's have nock's on them now? (I don't know)
About 22 or 23 years ago I went to a 3D shoot that had a Crossbow set up for 100 yards,I shot 5 out of 5 in a paper plate at that distance the first time I everpicked one up, and I'm sure they have improved some what over that time, So I don't buy that same effective range as a compound.
I personally don't care if people want to separate the seasons or lump them together with the regular archery season, makes no difference to me. But make no mistake about it a crossbow is archery tackle and no amount ofdistain or hatred for it will change that fact.
Well it make's a difference to me in this state, they can use one in the early youth season a week befor Bow season opens, the Handycap season in the middle of Oct, the regular 15 day Rifle season in Nov, the 10 day Black Powder season in Dec, or the other 10 day late Rifle season in Dec, or if there incapable of shooting a Bow they can get a Doctors slip, and Hunt everyone's season.
John just because you say so, don't make it so, Fact is a Crossbow is half Bow, Half Gun, SHOT like a Gun, now try and spell Archery when you remove the Archer!
No distain or hatred here, Just trying to keep Archery season for Archer's for the last 23 years or so.
Everybody is going to have a different perception as to how "archery like" the shooting of a crossbow is. Some will think it more archery and some will not but that doesn't change what the weapon is.
Mark me down in the will not column, because I consider it a Gunbow, shot like a Gun, with no Archer involved!
You will get no arguments from meabout how a crossbow is shot. Most are shouldered like a rifle.
My only contention is they are more like a bow than a firearm. Bows use energy stored in their limbs and propel a "projectile" by the use of a string.
Firearms use energy from exploded gun powder to propel their "projectile" BIG difference in their basic operations.
Since you are so hung up on proper names and the word archer, please tell me where in the word crossbow do you see anything that makes mention to a firearm????
It's called a crossbow because it's a BOW mounted transversely on a stock. It's not a firearm with a bow mounted on it...oops, there I go again using the word bow. It's tough not to when it's in the name of the weapon you are trying to describe......but it's not a bow....nah
I never said it's shot like a compound or traditional bow, all I said is that it's more like a bow than a firearm.....and it is.
Now I never said You thought it was shot like a compound or traditional bow, You made it clear in your opening statement, that it was not!
I call it a crossbow, have since I was about 5 years old, my Grandchildern call it a crossbow, even said it has a bow on it
.As far as the word Crossbow not having the word gun in it, It's because Crossbows came befor guns.
Since it has a gun stock and is Shot like a GUN, If gun's had been made first, do you honestly believe it would have not been called a Bowgun, Boltgun, Gunbow, or yes, even aArrowgunor somthing of that sort.? In other words since the invention of the gun, and everythingmade since the gun,with a pistol grip, or a gun stock, has been called a gun of some sort, Air Gun, Water Gun, Ratchet Gun, Grease Gun, BB Gun, ect, ect, Yet none of these Gun's launch a projectile from a ignited powderd propellant!
We could pick each others post's apart for days, but let's get back to the real Issue at hand, Is it Archery!
You claim it is because it has a bow , I say, once you lay a Bolt in the track of a crossbow, The Archer has left the Building! Again, No Archer, No Archery.
It takes Zero archery skills to shoot a crossbow, no matter how many Bow and Arrow components it is made up of! And I'm sure you know this as well.
And let me end by saying, I'm not the bad guy here, I helped to get it so Handicaped Bowhunters could hunt with a Crossbow during Archery season. I'm all for them having their own season.
The Bad guy's are Crossbow manufactures spending hundred's of thousands of dollars, maybe millions, and archery shop owner's trying to open up our Archery season for a whole new market for their profit, and Gun Hunters that will jump at the chance to Chisel away at even more of our Archery season. We have already went from a once generous 75 day season in my state,to 45 from these special intrest group's, not counting the early youth season a week befor Archery season opens.
Some states with low Hunter numbers, it may not make a differance, (They always use OHIO as an example)I think my State sold somthimg like 650,000 deer tag's last year (someone correct me if I'm wrong) If you take 1/4 of that who would hunt with a crossbow (just guessing) your looking at an additional 162,500 thrown into our archery season and public hunting land.
Like I said, I'm just your average John trying to keep Archery season for Archers. If someone wants to hunt Archery season they can aquire a Bow and some Arrows and learn to be an Archer, If not, they can hunt with a gun or Gun type fired bolt launcher in their 3 Gun season's where it belongs.
04-07-2007, 07:17 PM
#79
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,288
RE: Are Crossbows Considered Archery???
ORIGINAL: Arthur P
You guys have got it backwards. Crossbows don't resemble rifles because they've been around nearly 2,000 years longer than firearms. Crossbows have been around since at least 350 BC. Around the 15th Century, some wise guy took a hand cannon and mounted it on a crossbow tiller and Bingo! The arquebus was invented. Saying a crossbow resembles a rifle is like saying a chariot resembles an Abrams tank.
You guys have got it backwards. Crossbows don't resemble rifles because they've been around nearly 2,000 years longer than firearms. Crossbows have been around since at least 350 BC. Around the 15th Century, some wise guy took a hand cannon and mounted it on a crossbow tiller and Bingo! The arquebus was invented. Saying a crossbow resembles a rifle is like saying a chariot resembles an Abrams tank.
Kind of reminds me of the time when I was a Kid and my Uncle Ted asked me the question about what came first the Chicken or the Egg. I told him the Bible said the Chicken did,and thatit really did not change the fact, thatbecause somewhere right then, there was an Egg sliding out a Chickens hind quarters!
Come on now Arthur, you know a Gun looks, and is shot like a crossbow.
Your home made Crossbow is Awsome, reminds me of whenI was a kid and my dad and I made one for me whenI thought I was William Tell, But lets be Honest here, they have nothing to do with the modern day Crossbows we are talking about here trying to get pushed into the archery season. There is no Archer involved in a Crossbow!
At least a Chariot and an Abrams Tank have a driver in common!
04-07-2007, 07:49 PM
#80
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,149
RE: Are Crossbows Considered Archery???
M. Dave why am i angry good ? I'm sick and tired of us so called hunters beating up ourselves about hunting issues like xbows. Anti's just love watching us beat up each other and theydon't have tospend a cent to try and stop us, were doing it to ourselves. Yes i'm 63yrs old and falling apart, but i still anjoy being in the outdoors and hunting i can't use a bow any morelike i usedto for darn near45 yrs. So now i want to use a xbow you folks say screw you, i don't think so. The woods are big enough for all of us i'm not going to take your deer, walk on you land so why do you want to stop us, that cannot use regular equipment. I know there is a bunch of older folks thatwould still be out bow hunting, but we can't because we beat up our bodies, trying to feed all you young rasscals when we werebring you up, so now this is the thanks we get. Rich