a/c/c's......
03-11-2007 | 08:16 AM
#21
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,214
Likes: 0
From: Arlington TX USA
RE: a/c/c's......
ORIGINAL: shed33
3-71's ?
3-71's ?
The A/C/Cs are the most consistenet arrow I have ever shot period. I can't afford the higher dollar arrows lke A/C/E or what not but I have been shooting A/C/Cs for well over 10 years. IMO in the price range there is not a better arrow on the market.
03-15-2007 | 09:42 AM
#23
Nontypical Buck
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,679
Likes: 0
From: Albany, NY
RE: a/c/c's......
Can't believe I missed this response............
Yes I have tested them. I have a1/2 dozen pro 22's with probably 2500 shots on each that I shot all summer last year. They all spined and spun well last time I fletched them in January for this season and I have been shooting some winning scores with them locally just recently.
There are several things I like about Gold Tips pin nock system. Last year, I got a dozen pro 22's about this time. I fletched the first 1/2 dozen up with easton 2115 super uni bushing components. That entire half dozen is sitting in a bucket with wrecked back ends from shooting groups and getting hit in 3D targets. They do not protect the carbon as well as a pin nock. The other thing is that with a pin nock, you either know it is bad or good, the easton components are difficult to see after a hard hit atunless you have an arrow spinner. I carry a little plastic baggie in my quiver at all times that has about 50 nocks, anda 1/2 dozen extra pins in it. If I question a nock, I change it immediately. I do look at them as a disposable component and I really think people don't change their nocks enough. I will go through 150-200 nocks and a couple dozen pin insertsin a summer/3D season because I will replace them frequently. The pin nock components also has a longer sleeve that goes inside the shaft to better align the nock to the inside shaft wall. It is approximately 2x as long as the easton component. When I was using easton components in my goldtips I would end up with 1-2 arrows in a dozen that didn't spin to acceptable tolerances due to component alignment, since switching to pin nocks I haven't seen that yet.
The other thing I like about the pin nock system as a 3D shooter is that when I stick one in a 12 ring, if someone else hits the back end of the arrow it deflects them often times well into the 10, sometimes even an 8.
Easton components don't seem to have quite this effect.
And not all of eastons are made in the USA. And the ones that are made in the USA..........calland ask where they buy the aluminum and carbon from. [8D]
ORIGINAL: TFOX
First off,straightness is getting blown out of proportion in the arrow debate.The most accurate arrows in the world are .002 straightness.For broadhead flight,insert alignment and spine tolerances are way more important.Plus,I doubt that the arrows that are claiming .001 straightness will be that straight after shot a couple hundred times.(assumption on my part,have not tested them)
Rick,have you been able to test the .001 straight arrows after a couple hundred shots,I would be interested in seeing if they maintain that,even the carbon ones.Along with the spine after a couple hundred shots.
I know the ACC's I shoot have been shot alot for about 3 years now and shoot the same now as they did whenI got them.I NEVER had an all carbon shaft do that.
Ahair on your head is about .003 so .001 or .002 on an arrow isn't really even debateable.If you get into the .004 range,then it might become an issue.
I agree that the pin nock system is a more accurate system and the back end of an arrow is THE MOST IMPORTANT part of an arrow,this will tell the arrow what direction to go,however,the pin nock isn't even close to being as durable and forgiving to a back end hit.So for me and a hunting arrow that I slam into 3-d targets and bails(and get hit by "buddies").I prefer the uni system,for a long range target arrow,the pin nock would be my choice,but I would have alot of extras.Also,Easton uses pin nocks also,just not on the ACC's.(I know you are aware of this,just put it out there for those that don't)
What I like most about the ACC's is the wider range of spine.You can match them perfectly to about any setup.
Plus,I like the fact that the Easton's are made in the USA.
It is interesting to see all the varying opinions on different equipment.
ORIGINAL: Rick James
The straightness tolerances on the A/C/C's are actually less than theX-weaves.
A/C/C's are a great all around arrow, however a goltip pro hunter is lighter, cheaper, more durable, straighter, and I honestly think the pin nock system is a higher quality component system than the easton system. If lighter isn't a priority for you, then just add more tip weight to get it where you want it and in turn you increase your FOC to come up with more forgiveness with fixed blade heads, windy conditions, etc. I also like the Carbon Express Maxima's as well however they are quite a bit more expensive than pro hunters and don't seem to have any more advantages and I still like pin nocks better than the bulldog collars.
I have spine tested Maxima's, Pro Hunter's, and A/C/C's at the shop on our spine tester and all produced excellent results.......all hadtolerances close enough to produce fantastic groups at distances well outside of any hunting condition.
The straightness tolerances on the A/C/C's are actually less than theX-weaves.
A/C/C's are a great all around arrow, however a goltip pro hunter is lighter, cheaper, more durable, straighter, and I honestly think the pin nock system is a higher quality component system than the easton system. If lighter isn't a priority for you, then just add more tip weight to get it where you want it and in turn you increase your FOC to come up with more forgiveness with fixed blade heads, windy conditions, etc. I also like the Carbon Express Maxima's as well however they are quite a bit more expensive than pro hunters and don't seem to have any more advantages and I still like pin nocks better than the bulldog collars.
I have spine tested Maxima's, Pro Hunter's, and A/C/C's at the shop on our spine tester and all produced excellent results.......all hadtolerances close enough to produce fantastic groups at distances well outside of any hunting condition.
First off,straightness is getting blown out of proportion in the arrow debate.The most accurate arrows in the world are .002 straightness.For broadhead flight,insert alignment and spine tolerances are way more important.Plus,I doubt that the arrows that are claiming .001 straightness will be that straight after shot a couple hundred times.(assumption on my part,have not tested them)
Rick,have you been able to test the .001 straight arrows after a couple hundred shots,I would be interested in seeing if they maintain that,even the carbon ones.Along with the spine after a couple hundred shots.
I know the ACC's I shoot have been shot alot for about 3 years now and shoot the same now as they did whenI got them.I NEVER had an all carbon shaft do that.
Ahair on your head is about .003 so .001 or .002 on an arrow isn't really even debateable.If you get into the .004 range,then it might become an issue.
I agree that the pin nock system is a more accurate system and the back end of an arrow is THE MOST IMPORTANT part of an arrow,this will tell the arrow what direction to go,however,the pin nock isn't even close to being as durable and forgiving to a back end hit.So for me and a hunting arrow that I slam into 3-d targets and bails(and get hit by "buddies").I prefer the uni system,for a long range target arrow,the pin nock would be my choice,but I would have alot of extras.Also,Easton uses pin nocks also,just not on the ACC's.(I know you are aware of this,just put it out there for those that don't)
What I like most about the ACC's is the wider range of spine.You can match them perfectly to about any setup.
Plus,I like the fact that the Easton's are made in the USA.
It is interesting to see all the varying opinions on different equipment.
There are several things I like about Gold Tips pin nock system. Last year, I got a dozen pro 22's about this time. I fletched the first 1/2 dozen up with easton 2115 super uni bushing components. That entire half dozen is sitting in a bucket with wrecked back ends from shooting groups and getting hit in 3D targets. They do not protect the carbon as well as a pin nock. The other thing is that with a pin nock, you either know it is bad or good, the easton components are difficult to see after a hard hit atunless you have an arrow spinner. I carry a little plastic baggie in my quiver at all times that has about 50 nocks, anda 1/2 dozen extra pins in it. If I question a nock, I change it immediately. I do look at them as a disposable component and I really think people don't change their nocks enough. I will go through 150-200 nocks and a couple dozen pin insertsin a summer/3D season because I will replace them frequently. The pin nock components also has a longer sleeve that goes inside the shaft to better align the nock to the inside shaft wall. It is approximately 2x as long as the easton component. When I was using easton components in my goldtips I would end up with 1-2 arrows in a dozen that didn't spin to acceptable tolerances due to component alignment, since switching to pin nocks I haven't seen that yet.
The other thing I like about the pin nock system as a 3D shooter is that when I stick one in a 12 ring, if someone else hits the back end of the arrow it deflects them often times well into the 10, sometimes even an 8.
Easton components don't seem to have quite this effect. And not all of eastons are made in the USA. And the ones that are made in the USA..........calland ask where they buy the aluminum and carbon from. [8D]
03-15-2007 | 02:44 PM
#24
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,051
Likes: 0
From: Jackson, Missouri
RE: a/c/c's......
Very good discussion, guys... Rick, you summed up what I've seen/read from others -- and I fully concur with people not changing nocks often enough. I'm going to try to get a LOT better at that myself.
03-15-2007 | 02:57 PM
#25
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,634
Likes: 0
From: HENDERSON KY USA
RE: a/c/c's......
I know that not all the Eastons are made in the US,from what I can gather,they have atleast 3 different shafts that are not made in the US.
I am also aware they get the raw materials from else where,mainly because it isn't readily available and some of the raw components just can't be mined here.
Atleast theyTRY to keep jobs here.Some of the companies just ran out trying to avoid some taxes.But I digress.
I agree that the pin nock system is a more accurate system,but like I said,Easton makes pin nocks also,they just put them on the best arrows in the world.[8D]
It is irrelevant what easton components do in another manufacturers arrow,they weren't made for them.
Ican't recall ever havingan arrow damaged from a back end hit that became unusable with uni bushings AND g-nocksand I have MANY nocks blown apart.I don't have a high energy setup so that helps but no one else has done it to my arrowseither AND I get my arrows(or used to) tuned out of a Hooter Shooter.That would tell beyond a doubt if there was a problem.I also change my nocks when in doubt.
I used to shoot ALOT of 3-d,all over.
Use what you like,I care less but there isn't a better arrow in the same price range as the ACC.Maybe some as good but none better.Just don't get caught up on .001 or .002 straightness,they aren't a reflection of anything usefull to even the best shooters.
Here are just a few nocksI had in my quiver .There have been MANY more over the years and even a few that had been broken off clean.
The one on the left is what they are supposed to look like.
A few of these would have been robinhoods if the unibushings were not being used but none of them resulted in a damged arrow.And people wonder why I spend the extra money for ACC's.
I am also aware they get the raw materials from else where,mainly because it isn't readily available and some of the raw components just can't be mined here.
Atleast theyTRY to keep jobs here.Some of the companies just ran out trying to avoid some taxes.But I digress.
I agree that the pin nock system is a more accurate system,but like I said,Easton makes pin nocks also,they just put them on the best arrows in the world.[8D]
It is irrelevant what easton components do in another manufacturers arrow,they weren't made for them.
Ican't recall ever havingan arrow damaged from a back end hit that became unusable with uni bushings AND g-nocksand I have MANY nocks blown apart.I don't have a high energy setup so that helps but no one else has done it to my arrowseither AND I get my arrows(or used to) tuned out of a Hooter Shooter.That would tell beyond a doubt if there was a problem.I also change my nocks when in doubt.
I used to shoot ALOT of 3-d,all over.
Use what you like,I care less but there isn't a better arrow in the same price range as the ACC.Maybe some as good but none better.Just don't get caught up on .001 or .002 straightness,they aren't a reflection of anything usefull to even the best shooters.
Here are just a few nocksI had in my quiver .There have been MANY more over the years and even a few that had been broken off clean.
The one on the left is what they are supposed to look like.
A few of these would have been robinhoods if the unibushings were not being used but none of them resulted in a damged arrow.And people wonder why I spend the extra money for ACC's.
03-15-2007 | 02:59 PM
#26
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,673
Likes: 0
From: Northeast Tennessee
RE: a/c/c's......
ORIGINAL: mobowhuntr
GMMAT, if you're using 3-60's, your Lumenok's will work perfectly fine. You just need to remove the uni bushing and hone out the insideof the arrow to remove excess glue. Then they fit, but the 3-60's are the only one's they work with.
Having said that, I still say the Maxima 3D Selects are better....
GMMAT, if you're using 3-60's, your Lumenok's will work perfectly fine. You just need to remove the uni bushing and hone out the insideof the arrow to remove excess glue. Then they fit, but the 3-60's are the only one's they work with.
Having said that, I still say the Maxima 3D Selects are better....
his are 3-49's
03-15-2007 | 03:44 PM
#27
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,634
Likes: 0
From: HENDERSON KY USA
RE: a/c/c's......
Also,were the arrows that you checked after some use within "factory" specs? You just said they spined and spun well.
Please don't take my question as any kind of attack on Goldtips ar any other arrow,they are fine arrows.
I prefer ACC's and KNOW the straightness tolerance that is put out by other manufacturers is a total marketing ploy.Yes,they may have arrows that are straight to within .001 but I say so what,it makes NO difference from a .002 straight arrow.(ACE's and X-10's are .0015)If you are comparing to a .004 or .005 straight,then there MAY be an argument.
Please don't take my question as any kind of attack on Goldtips ar any other arrow,they are fine arrows.
I prefer ACC's and KNOW the straightness tolerance that is put out by other manufacturers is a total marketing ploy.Yes,they may have arrows that are straight to within .001 but I say so what,it makes NO difference from a .002 straight arrow.(ACE's and X-10's are .0015)If you are comparing to a .004 or .005 straight,then there MAY be an argument.
03-15-2007 | 03:45 PM
#28
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 13,082
Likes: 0
From:
RE: a/c/c's......
Use what you like,I care less but there isn't a better arrow in the same price range as the ACC.Maybe some as good but none better.Just don't get caught up on .001 or .002 straightness,they aren't a reflection of anything usefull to even the best shooters.
You can say not to get caught up in the straightness factor if you like, and to a point I totally agree with you. The average shooter WILL NOT notice a differnce in .002 and .001, but like I said, what makes the CX even better is it's the LENGTH of the arrow.......This same argument can be made w/ the ACC as well, but I've seen guys switch to the CX and their groups immediately tightened. My buddy has never robinhooded in his entire life, until last evening. He bought a dozen 3D Selects and did it on the SECOND shot....To say he was impressed would be an immense understatement.
Again, not to be a horses butt, don't take it that way, I just really believe the CX to be a better arrow....But the ACC is awesome, no doubt about it.
03-15-2007 | 04:23 PM
#30
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,679
Likes: 0
From: Heaven is my home, temporarily residing in WNY :)
RE: a/c/c's......
From Easton's website ....
[align=center]
TRUSPECS AND GUARANTEED CONSISTENCY[/align]SPINE
Easton arrows, produced with our advanced technology and manufacturing processes, deliver uniform spine between all arrow shafts of the same size, and 360 degrees around each shaft. With Easton, you know that your next arrow will fly like the last.
STRAIGHTNESS
Our straightness measurements are actual, and surpass, with a far more stringent straightness requirement, ATA/ASTM industry standard. We measure straightness based on the full length of the shaft, minus two inches, which makes Easton arrows the most accurate in the industry. What we say is what you get -- and better.
WEIGHT
Accuracy requires weight consistency. Different weights will cause arrows to hit higher or lower. We adhere to strict weight tolerances in every arrow we manufacture, guaranteeing consistent arrow performance. Whether you're aiming for gold, or bearing down on a trophy elk, you know that the critical shot you're about to take will be as perfect as your practice shot.
[/align]
[align=center]
TRUSPECS AND GUARANTEED CONSISTENCY[/align]SPINE
Easton arrows, produced with our advanced technology and manufacturing processes, deliver uniform spine between all arrow shafts of the same size, and 360 degrees around each shaft. With Easton, you know that your next arrow will fly like the last.
STRAIGHTNESS
Our straightness measurements are actual, and surpass, with a far more stringent straightness requirement, ATA/ASTM industry standard. We measure straightness based on the full length of the shaft, minus two inches, which makes Easton arrows the most accurate in the industry. What we say is what you get -- and better.
WEIGHT
Accuracy requires weight consistency. Different weights will cause arrows to hit higher or lower. We adhere to strict weight tolerances in every arrow we manufacture, guaranteeing consistent arrow performance. Whether you're aiming for gold, or bearing down on a trophy elk, you know that the critical shot you're about to take will be as perfect as your practice shot.
[/align]