soonershooter

Your question should be rephrased. Should P&Y believe him? What if this buck was a roadkill and died in the field or naturally killed by predators? He walks up and makes the whole story up and gets the new record. I don't think so. That's the #1 problem I have with the whole thing. No hide, no meat, no proof of a legal bow hit (could've been rifle). All these questions = no record in my opinion. What exactly did the man have to check in at the check station other than skull and antlers? If you can't legally check the deer with all mandatory information how can it be legal for P&Y? Actually if the buck wasn't a new world bow record for him to pursue the recognition and fame he probably wouldn't have even tagged it. Just because you find merely a head doesn't necessarily mean he needed to tag it as a lawful kill. He could've kept on hunting to tag another even after finding this head.

Edited by - soonershooter on 12/06/2002 01:09:43

Big Country

A wheel fell off an aircraft! I like it! Next time I am in a debate and everyone doesn`t go with my thoughts, I`ll try that one.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

You have your opinion, other people have theirs.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> Where is the written rule that says a shot must always be &quot;picture perfect&quot; to be taken and to be lethal. Nor is there a rule that says a deer must always be killed by a perfect release and a perfect shot to validate the kill. Such a rule, written or self-imposed, would be stretching ethics beyond practicality and reality, and would be amoral rather than moral.




<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
I don`t think it is written anywhere, actually.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> Such a rule, written or self-imposed, would be stretching ethics beyond practicality and reality, and would be amoral rather than moral.




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You are joking, right?
I mean, you aren`t implying it is acceptable to just bust an arrow through him, get a liver, or maybe one lung. He`ll go down sooner or later! We should be able to find him, with enough help, right?

A liver, or one lung shots may happen once in a great while, but to even think that it is acceptable to purposely try for a shot like that because a better one is not available? Well that would fall under the category of your moral also...the other one/immoral!

NRA,UBP,BASS Member
New Stanton,PA

JOE PA

I guess the times really have changed.

When I read the accounts of this buck, I agree with Ausie that it would be a &quot;find&quot;.

It's hard to comprehend how the majority of responses find nothing wrong with the whole scenario, and can compare it with a buddy being the first to see your deer on a blood trail. Totally different to me at least.

No meat recovered, not much hide, just antlers. That would make me sick because it would remind me of my personal failure.

But then again, I hate trash talking and taunting in the NFL and College football, so I guess I'm just a dinosaur!<img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>

Avoid the inevitable until it is absolutely unavoidable!

Natty Bumpo

First of all I would have looked for that deer that night after waiting for it to bed down, and called in to work sick and looked the next day.

If a farmer in my area finds a dead monster buck, whats to stop me from saying yep, thats the one I 'let get away wounded the other day.'

Where do you draw the line? If you see buzzards circling a field a couple days later is that a hunter kill or a pick up?

There is no evidence that Zaft killed this buck. It could have been only wounded and the coyotes finished it off. It could have even been hit by a car.

stealthycat

SW Iowa Hunter - Theres two published stories to the Zaft hunt, with obviously contradicting details that were added and removed to sugar coat what happened. Big Buck Magazine ran a way different story than North American Whitetail did. The article you posted was out of the North American Whitetail article.

Your question was - would I have entered it ? Yes, I would have so I could try and make a bunch of money on it, just like Zaft did. I don't begrudge him that.

P&Y can accept entries from anyone and anything I suppose, but it was their job to decide if it was an ethical kill that will be the next World Record and an icon to the sport of archery. P&Y failied in that and I will never be a part of them (unless I shoot a monster) because of that.

Bottom line, Zaft took a rushed shot on a very fast moving deer and he got a bad hit. Poor shot, poor hit and he lost it. Happens to a lot of us. The only differnce is that a day later someone find a huge buck and Zaft says its the same one and claims it. Legally the guy who found it could have claimed it as a pickup, and no one could have proved it was there deer, and no one can prove it was the same that Zaft shot. Heck, no one can prove the arrow killed it - the coyotes very well might have.
Stealthycat's Photo's

stealthycat

I posted this on the LW a while back and thanks to their great archive search engine I found it.

Here are the two stories as they are printed. I will paraphrase them to condense the and show the differences. <font color=red>North American Whitetail (NAW)</font id=red> issue came in Jan 2002, <font color=blue>Big Buck Magazine (BBM)</font id=blue> came out with their issue in May I believe (Spring issue)

<font color=red>NAW - &quot;Was this really happening ?(Zaft)An incredibly massive whitetail buck with a high tined rack was trotting my way. He was about 150 yards out and coming along the brush line I was in&quot;</font id=red>

<font color=blue>BBM &quot; Then out of the corner of his eye he (Zaft)picked up movement. Peering up he glimpsed a massive buck lazily meandering towards him ...&quot;</font id=blue>

<font color=red>NAW &quot; As the buck went behind some thick, leafy cover, I bounded about 15 yards forward and stopped, still standing, near a large broken-off poplar. I took several deep breaths, trying desperately to calm myself in the face of this shocking developement.&quot; </font id=red>

<font color=blue>BBM &quot; Instinctively, Wayne nocked an arrow and hunkered down in hopes of getting an up close and personal opportunity of a lifetime &quot;</font id=blue>

<font color=red>NAW &quot; The buck was closing the distance and hardly breaking stride. In front of me I had a good opening for a shooting lane, one about 8 yards wide where I though the buck would enter. I estimated the distance to this point at 34 yards, well within my comfortable shooting range as an experienced 3-D tournament shooter and bowhunter.&quot; </font id=red>

<font color=blue>BBM &quot; Patiently watching the buck wander in his general direction, Wayne was granted a privilaged glimpse as the whitetail worked his rub line. The giant buck eventually leapt a barbed-wire fence and began to saunter away but still paralleling Waynes position. At one point the buck was 20 yards but didn't present any sort of ethical shot opportunity. ............ Continuing his vigil, Wayne waited patiently. Then it happened. Recognizing his small window of opportunity, Wayne drew his 67 pound compound bow and took aim. At just that moment the buck jumped the fence a second time. Then, just as the hooves hit the ground, Wayne zeroed his 30 yard pin on the massive ches, focused and released all in a matter of two seconds&quot; </font id=blue>

<font color=red>NAW &quot; As the deer entered my shooting lane, I drew in one fluid motion and then grunted with my voice to stop him. He gave no reaction so I grunted again- this time somewhat louder. The buck slowed to a walk and he looked my way however he wasn't stopping and my shooting window was closing quickly. I had to take a shot NOW to have a good chance at a clean kill&quot; &quot; I saw my Carbon Express arrow strike the deer a bit high and far back. The Gametracker First Cut 125-grain broadhead passed completely through him.&quot; </font id=red>

<font color=blue>BBM &quot; Hitting the deer slightly back from the lungs, the buck lunged forward and raced away, with his head and belly to the ground.</font id=blue>

<font color=red>NAW &quot; The giant buck bounded away, I noticed no sign of a fatal hit. As I stood there, I was overwhelmed with anxiety as that sinking feeling of &quot;a bad hit&quot; flooded through me.&quot;

&quot; I chastised myself for misjudgint he distance (just under 30 yards instead of 34 yards) and hurrying the shot.&quot;</font id=red>

<font color=blue>BBM (no mention of what Zaft thought of the hit) </font id=blue>

<font color=red>NAW &quot; I waited for probably the longest 40 minutes of my life all the while reliving the shot scenario and trying to convince myself that maybe the shot had been better than I envisioned&quot; </font id=red>

<font color=blue>BBM - &quot;Then after 30 minutes, Wayne proceeded.&quot;</font id=blue>

<font color=red>NAW &quot; I could easily see where the deers cloven hooves had torn up ground, but I could find no blood. Finally, I found a couple of small droplets on some leaves but no more&quot;</font id=red>

<font color=blue>BBM &quot; Confirming his suspicions, the blood (from the arrow) was darker than he'd hoped for, suggesting he'd hit the buck in the back half of the body.

&quot;he made the wise decision to wait and allow the buck to bed down and expire.&quot; </font id=blue>

<font color=red>NAW &quot; After losing the trail, I started making short loops through the trees. Soon night fell over the land and to me it felt like defeat&quot; </font id=red>

The rest of the story is pretty much the same. NAW makes it sound like Zaft heard the farmer had found a deer, BBM says Zaft asked the farmer. NAW was first person (Zaft) and BBM was retold. I can see huge differences in the story. I called Big Buck Magazine and told them my concern. I taled to Gary Donald and he said the story was written as Zaft told it. Why the discrepencies ? He didn't know.

Ya'll tell me now, was the first stroy true or the second ? Did Zaft stay put or move ? Was the buck trotting or working a scrape line leisurley ? Was there a barb wire fence or not ? Did Zaft grunt at the deer or not ? Did it run off appearing hit (head down and belly low) or did he run off appearing unwounded ? Did Zaft find first blood or not ? Did he lose the trail first or decide to stop looking ?? I believe Zaft told the truth as it happend in the first telling, the NAW one. I think the second was worked up and published to candy coat and smooth over everyone because Zaft took a very hurried and poor shot at a fast moving deer that he hit poorly and lost. That seems like the truth to me. I think Zaft looked all day the next day (morning and evening anyway) and had given up for the most part. I think the farmer told someone that told someone and Zaft heard about and claimed his deer that way. I don't doubt it was Zaft's deer, I do think maybe the coyotes finished the deer off.



Stealthycat's Photo's

stealthycat

ooops

Edited by - stealthycat on 12/06/2002 08:36:09

c903

My being in favor of Zaft and a recovery are mostly based on Zaft's acknowledged background. Unless someone can present contradicting information, Zaft seems to be accepted as a truthful and decent person. Granted, to be recognized as a world record holder, and to receive all the &quot;bennies&quot; that will go with the title, there is very strong motive to be otherwise.

If Zaft did not have the reputation that he does, I would probably go with the opposing views that are being posted. Although I am on the &quot;pro&quot; side, at this time, the &quot;cons&quot; are definitely not out in left field. I must admit, the arguments of how did the buck actually die are very good and merit consideration.

I suspect that I may be giving Zaft a greater benefit of doubt than I should so that the wondrous buck is not subordinated to nothing more than a discovered heap of rotting flesh and a simple &quot;find.&quot;

Natty Bumpo

A 200 class typical was found in a field in my state. Apparently hit by a car.

Wait a minute I got that buck it was a marginal hit and I couldnt find it someone else found it a couple days later. Yea thats it. My buck.

Also this great buck came straight in to Natty's secret homemade buck lure. Send me 20 dollars and I'll send you your 1 oz. bottle.

c903

stealthycat

Having been associated with reporters and writers for many years, I can assure you that &quot;creative writing, paraphrasing, and misquotes&quot; are alive and well. Unless Zaft personally tells you what occurred, whether he tells you verbally on in writing, all verbal or written accounts given by others is &quot;hearsay.&quot;

Last night, two local TV stations gave contradicting weather reports. I will just have to wait to find out what the actual weather has to say.

In other words; unless you actually hear it (account) coming from the horse's mouth, it (account) might be coming from the other end of the horse.