Would you claim the Zaft buck?
12-05-2002, 12:05 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Logan Ia USA
Posts: 678
Would you claim the Zaft buck?
With the question about when can you claim that you recovered a deer being posted there was some mention that some people thought this deer should not be entered in the P&Y because of the way it was recovered.
I was just wondering how many people (being put in the exact same situation) would not have entered this buck?
How many think that P&Y should not have let him enter it even if he didn't want to?
Like I said before I would have entered it in a heart beat.
I am not trying to start any argument here just was curious who would pass up the money on thier morals?
I posted a link to the Zaft buck story and i am sure there are others besides this one just search under Zaft buck.
http://www.gameandfish.about.com/lib...azaft_main.htm
" Anyone can be a father, but it takes a real man to be a Dad"
I was just wondering how many people (being put in the exact same situation) would not have entered this buck?
How many think that P&Y should not have let him enter it even if he didn't want to?
Like I said before I would have entered it in a heart beat.
I am not trying to start any argument here just was curious who would pass up the money on thier morals?
I posted a link to the Zaft buck story and i am sure there are others besides this one just search under Zaft buck.
http://www.gameandfish.about.com/lib...azaft_main.htm
" Anyone can be a father, but it takes a real man to be a Dad"
12-05-2002, 12:16 PM
#2
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Airdrie Alberta Canada
Posts: 50
RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
I am not sure that Wayne knew what he had when he shot it other than that it was a big animal. He did the ethical and logical thing and pursued the animal to the best of his ability and eventually did recover the deer, albeit with the help of the landowner. Would I have entered the deer in the P&Y books? Damn right I would have, and every other hunter would have also, if they had shot it. Wayne was within the regulations set out by P&Y and he deserves to be on top. As for making fistfuls of money from this animal, I am not sure that this is the case with Wayne. Speaking to the Alberta hunter that shot the potential WR NT Elk this fall, I have learned that many American Corperations do not want to support a Canadian hunter. The money is just not there for a Canadian hunter like it would be for an American hunter. Just my $0.02.
bag em' and tag em'
www.bowzone.ca
bag em' and tag em'
www.bowzone.ca
12-05-2002, 12:26 PM
#3
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Montgomery IL USA
Posts: 1,231
RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
Since I'm not a member of P&Y, not an expert on their rulings and decisions, and don't know all the facts of the hunt/recovery, I really don't have an opinion about Wayne Zaft's deer's acceptance or rejections from P&Y.
However, if I were in his shoes would I enter the animal? Assuming that his accounts of the situation are 100% factual (and I have no reason to doubt that they are) you bet I would! In a heart beat.
JRW
However, if I were in his shoes would I enter the animal? Assuming that his accounts of the situation are 100% factual (and I have no reason to doubt that they are) you bet I would! In a heart beat.
JRW
12-05-2002, 12:28 PM
#4
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Waynesboro Pa USA
Posts: 553
RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
I'll bite on this one. I cannot speak for Zaft, but, if it were me, no I would not put it into the book. Again, this is just my personal opinion and I would never criticize Zaft for entering it, but I would not enter it. Why? Because to me, the deer is a trophy. The meat, the antlers, ect. The whole deer. If I couldn't get the meat from the animal because I couldn't locate it, it would be tarnished. I'm sure people will say that it's easy to say I wouldn't enter it in the book if it never happened to me, but it has happened to me. I shot a monster with the muzzleloader a few years back but couldn't find him. A short time later someone else found him and told me about it. I didn't even get him mounted because to me the hunt is not about the kill, but about the scouting, the shot placement, and the recovery. I didn't recover, so it was tarnished.
Again, this is my opinion, and not a trashing of Zaft.
Again, this is my opinion, and not a trashing of Zaft.
<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
12-05-2002, 01:03 PM
#8
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,862
RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
Subsequent to reading most of the posts regarding the "Zaft" buck, including Zaft's article, the jury in my mind is in.
Where is the rule that says a recovery must be made only by the shooter? If that was true, then I suspect that many of us do not deserve credit for some of the kills and recoveries we have made when another party in our tracking group finds our deer before we do, or a landowner calls you the next day and tells you your deer is lying in his field.
Take for instance the 8-pntr I have killed, so far, this season. While tracking the buck I shot, I was being assisted by a friend. My friend found my buck first. Should I get the credit for the kill? A few hours earlier, my nephew, our friend, and I were tracking the doe that my nephew had shot. I found the doe first. Should my nephew get the credit for the kill?
Regarding Zaft's kill, it is the time spread, which was extremely minimal, which was the next day as I read and understand it, that is muddling up the thinking, and maybe (even) some jealousy. Zaft said he tried his best to find the buck on the day he shot the buck. He then went back to the area the next day and tried again. He was not able to find the deer and said "He headed home again." He did not say he conceded the loss and had given up the pursuit.
He must have extended his tracking by informing people who lived near the kill area, because an adjacent landowner was obviously aware and notified Zaft about the buck lying in the field. When Zaft arrived, the buck was still on the ground where it was simply spotted by the landowner.
Who is ready to say that your right to claim recovery is not valid if you, the shooter, do not find the deer first, and before the sun goes down? Regardless of time between shot and recovery, and who finds the deer, does corroborated evidence of whom made the kill establish ownership? Or, is it "Finder, keeper; looser, weeper?"
The kill and the recovery were totally righteous, and Zaft is fully deserving of the credit and the honors that goes with the kill.
PS: The only aspects of the "Zaft" story that surprised me was 1) that an experienced hunter as Zaft apparently is, held a belief that a wounded deer would go directly to cover and not cross a large open field to do so, and 2) relies only on blood trails to track.
Too many hunters think like humans, not deer. Deer do not comprehend like we do. They do not think, "Oh hell, I have just been severely wounded by an arrow/bullet, I better take cover before I fall down!"
Unless a deer is so severely wounded they began to loose strength rapidly or sense they are severely disabled, they may not go directly to cover. They may simply flee as they do when you (just)spook them.
Ever had a severely hit deer jump and run a few yards, stand and look around or go back to eating, and then just fall over?
Edited by - c903 on 12/05/2002 15:48:36
Where is the rule that says a recovery must be made only by the shooter? If that was true, then I suspect that many of us do not deserve credit for some of the kills and recoveries we have made when another party in our tracking group finds our deer before we do, or a landowner calls you the next day and tells you your deer is lying in his field.
Take for instance the 8-pntr I have killed, so far, this season. While tracking the buck I shot, I was being assisted by a friend. My friend found my buck first. Should I get the credit for the kill? A few hours earlier, my nephew, our friend, and I were tracking the doe that my nephew had shot. I found the doe first. Should my nephew get the credit for the kill?
Regarding Zaft's kill, it is the time spread, which was extremely minimal, which was the next day as I read and understand it, that is muddling up the thinking, and maybe (even) some jealousy. Zaft said he tried his best to find the buck on the day he shot the buck. He then went back to the area the next day and tried again. He was not able to find the deer and said "He headed home again." He did not say he conceded the loss and had given up the pursuit.
He must have extended his tracking by informing people who lived near the kill area, because an adjacent landowner was obviously aware and notified Zaft about the buck lying in the field. When Zaft arrived, the buck was still on the ground where it was simply spotted by the landowner.
Who is ready to say that your right to claim recovery is not valid if you, the shooter, do not find the deer first, and before the sun goes down? Regardless of time between shot and recovery, and who finds the deer, does corroborated evidence of whom made the kill establish ownership? Or, is it "Finder, keeper; looser, weeper?"
The kill and the recovery were totally righteous, and Zaft is fully deserving of the credit and the honors that goes with the kill.
PS: The only aspects of the "Zaft" story that surprised me was 1) that an experienced hunter as Zaft apparently is, held a belief that a wounded deer would go directly to cover and not cross a large open field to do so, and 2) relies only on blood trails to track.
Too many hunters think like humans, not deer. Deer do not comprehend like we do. They do not think, "Oh hell, I have just been severely wounded by an arrow/bullet, I better take cover before I fall down!"
Unless a deer is so severely wounded they began to loose strength rapidly or sense they are severely disabled, they may not go directly to cover. They may simply flee as they do when you (just)spook them.
Ever had a severely hit deer jump and run a few yards, stand and look around or go back to eating, and then just fall over?
Edited by - c903 on 12/05/2002 15:48:36
12-05-2002, 07:30 PM
#9
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New Stanton PA USA
Posts: 2,213
RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
I am guessing that SW Iowa Hunter posted this question after reading my comment about this deer on a recent thread.
There are many valid points already made here, which I must agree with.
The only real issue I have with this situation is the fact tha Mr. Zaft took a marginal shot on the animal. He forced a bad situation.
I feel I can honestly say that no human being alive today wants to shoot a MONSTER BUCK more than I do! That is why I spend my hard earned money to pursue them. I HAVE been offered a 15 yard shot at a typical buck that would score over 190"! The shot was head on, and I passed. It haunts me to this day! It always will. If I could turn back the clock, I would pass him again, under the same circumstances.
By all accounts Wayne Zaft is a very knowledgable, and just plain GOOD deer hunter. I cannot understand why someone with his skills as a bowhunter would chance such a thing. Whether it was a potential record book buck, or a yearling doe.
Did I ever push a shot that was not there? You bet, but I was way younger, with way less experience than I have now.
The farmer who found Waynes buck was not helping him track it, he just knew that Zaft was looking for a big buck he hit.
Maybe the kill should be considered legitimate, and I won`t develop an ulcer if it does take over the top spot. I just keep going back to the bad shot choice.
And just for the record, I like to see records be broken. Hanson, and Beatty really made my day!
Getting back to answering the original question... I can promise I would not have entered it, because I know in my heart that I would have passed on the shot.
What if it was a good shot oportunity, and I made a less than perfect hit? Then the neighbor finds it for me, and gives it to me. Do I enter it?
I plead the fifth!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
NRA,UBP,BASS Member
New Stanton,PA
There are many valid points already made here, which I must agree with.
The only real issue I have with this situation is the fact tha Mr. Zaft took a marginal shot on the animal. He forced a bad situation.
I feel I can honestly say that no human being alive today wants to shoot a MONSTER BUCK more than I do! That is why I spend my hard earned money to pursue them. I HAVE been offered a 15 yard shot at a typical buck that would score over 190"! The shot was head on, and I passed. It haunts me to this day! It always will. If I could turn back the clock, I would pass him again, under the same circumstances.
By all accounts Wayne Zaft is a very knowledgable, and just plain GOOD deer hunter. I cannot understand why someone with his skills as a bowhunter would chance such a thing. Whether it was a potential record book buck, or a yearling doe.
Did I ever push a shot that was not there? You bet, but I was way younger, with way less experience than I have now.
The farmer who found Waynes buck was not helping him track it, he just knew that Zaft was looking for a big buck he hit.
Maybe the kill should be considered legitimate, and I won`t develop an ulcer if it does take over the top spot. I just keep going back to the bad shot choice.
And just for the record, I like to see records be broken. Hanson, and Beatty really made my day!
Getting back to answering the original question... I can promise I would not have entered it, because I know in my heart that I would have passed on the shot.
What if it was a good shot oportunity, and I made a less than perfect hit? Then the neighbor finds it for me, and gives it to me. Do I enter it?
I plead the fifth!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
NRA,UBP,BASS Member
New Stanton,PA
12-05-2002, 08:10 PM
#10
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Stafford Virginia Stafford,Va
Posts: 593
RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
c903 Amen!!!!!!
I dont see where it was a bad situation, only made to be one, I feel he took the shot and really had the confidence that it was to be a good shot. It happened to not be quite as far as he originally thought, BTW that happens all the time, most misses are due to misjudged yardage. He made a shot, it is no lees his deer and no less a record for that. Just my opinion ofcourse.
Hunting ; an act of love for nature guided by the strongest spiritual forces.
http://www.adventuresoutdoors.freehomepage.com/
I dont see where it was a bad situation, only made to be one, I feel he took the shot and really had the confidence that it was to be a good shot. It happened to not be quite as far as he originally thought, BTW that happens all the time, most misses are due to misjudged yardage. He made a shot, it is no lees his deer and no less a record for that. Just my opinion ofcourse.
Hunting ; an act of love for nature guided by the strongest spiritual forces.
http://www.adventuresoutdoors.freehomepage.com/