Andy Rooney calls bow hunting "barbaric"
12-07-2002, 05:01 PM
#41
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Holland MI USA
Posts: 91
RE: Andy Rooney calls bow hunting "barbaric"
Bowhunting barbaric? Is bowhunting, where the animal, when shot, is totally surprised by what has taken place more barbaric than herding cows and pigs into the slaughter house? Those animals can smell death from the cattle cars they are hauled in on. The animals us hunters harvest, for the most part, have no clue to what hit them.
The best disertation I have ever read on hunting was written by a vegetarian. I only wish I had a copy so I could post it for all of you.
Mr. Rooney is more than likely a red meat eater. He has no problem eating a steak, as long as he does not have to deal with the gut pile.
Just my .05 worth.
"Kill'em and Grill'em"
By The Nuge (aka Ted Nugent)
The best disertation I have ever read on hunting was written by a vegetarian. I only wish I had a copy so I could post it for all of you.
Mr. Rooney is more than likely a red meat eater. He has no problem eating a steak, as long as he does not have to deal with the gut pile.
Just my .05 worth.
"Kill'em and Grill'em"
By The Nuge (aka Ted Nugent)
12-07-2002, 07:27 PM
#42
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cheverly MD USA
Posts: 24
RE: Andy Rooney calls bow hunting "barbaric"
Kaos: I can't keep 25% of the people on TV straight. It just so happens I knew these two! 
I understand and respect your political convictions; diversity of opinion is one of the things that makes life interesting.
MI_Bowhunter: I think you raise an EXCELLENT point. This is precisely one of the reasons I became a hunter: I didn't think I was taking enough responsibility for the lives that ended to perpetuate mine. I felt like I was leaving the hard work to others. Turns out the "hard work" is a much more profound experience than I ever could have imagined!
PS: I'd love to read the vegetarian's defense of hunting if you can find it!
Straightarrow: Thanks for the thought-provoking post. I completely agree with the "big government vs. small government" distinction you draw.
You'll notice I said that "strict conservatives...resist change." What I meant to do there was describe an ultra-orthodox stance while allowing for a wide spectrum of "conservative" positions. I should have made that more clear; sorry for the confusion.
I also agree that there are "conservatives" who DO want change in a different direction from "liberals," but it seems to me that 4 out of 5 times that direction is backwards. Many "social conservatives" want to go back to a happier, simpler, Biblically-guided, Eisenhower-era America. I think that this is an understandable, even attractive, idea. I also think that it is an impossibility.
I would also differ with you on the goal of "liberalism" generally defined.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
They want government control of everything, ie, education, welfare, health, morals, etc,.
...Liberals believe they must protect everyone from all evils with laws that restrict and control everyone.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
I think this definition engages in the sort of generalizing that is dangerous; it's like saying, "All men who wear earrings are gay." (As I wrote above, I was trying to avoid this in my own posts, but may not have!) "Liberals"--as I understand them--think that part of government's job is to improve ONLY the lot of the "lowly" and to protect the "powerless," hence "bleeding hearts." It is to this end only that strict "liberals" seek strong public education, welfare support, and public health. I've got to disagree with you on morals. In my experience, I see more "conservatives"--with the exception of pure "libertarians"--seeking to restrict freedoms in this arena. I think abortion and gay marriage are good examples. The conservative positions on these issues clearly--and ironically--fit your definition of the "liberal" ill which I quote above. Actually, many "conservatives" and many "liberals" are only pro-freedom when it comes to certain issues, e.g. guns for many of the former, sexual/reproductive issues for many of the latter.
These are my points in summary (should have done this long ago, eh?) <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>:
1. Boilerplate definitions of what all members of a group believe in or stand for break down quickly. If I engaged in definitions of that sort earlier a) I didn't mean to and I should have been clearer, and b) I hope I've been more precise this time around! <img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle>
2. Neither "side" avoids hypocracy. I really don't think either affiliation is more for freedom or restriction; it just depends on the issues. I don't think that you and I can kid ourselves and say we stand on the side of Liberty, big L. Instead we stand on the side with which we agree on specific issues.
Thanks for the exchange. I appreciate your arguments and enjoy searching out the common ground. I'm happy to keep the discussion here, but maybe we should take this back-channel? We're getting pretty far from Andy Rooney! Feel free to email me.
Best.
I understand and respect your political convictions; diversity of opinion is one of the things that makes life interesting.
MI_Bowhunter: I think you raise an EXCELLENT point. This is precisely one of the reasons I became a hunter: I didn't think I was taking enough responsibility for the lives that ended to perpetuate mine. I felt like I was leaving the hard work to others. Turns out the "hard work" is a much more profound experience than I ever could have imagined!
PS: I'd love to read the vegetarian's defense of hunting if you can find it!
Straightarrow: Thanks for the thought-provoking post. I completely agree with the "big government vs. small government" distinction you draw.
You'll notice I said that "strict conservatives...resist change." What I meant to do there was describe an ultra-orthodox stance while allowing for a wide spectrum of "conservative" positions. I should have made that more clear; sorry for the confusion.
I also agree that there are "conservatives" who DO want change in a different direction from "liberals," but it seems to me that 4 out of 5 times that direction is backwards. Many "social conservatives" want to go back to a happier, simpler, Biblically-guided, Eisenhower-era America. I think that this is an understandable, even attractive, idea. I also think that it is an impossibility.
I would also differ with you on the goal of "liberalism" generally defined.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
They want government control of everything, ie, education, welfare, health, morals, etc,.
...Liberals believe they must protect everyone from all evils with laws that restrict and control everyone.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
I think this definition engages in the sort of generalizing that is dangerous; it's like saying, "All men who wear earrings are gay." (As I wrote above, I was trying to avoid this in my own posts, but may not have!) "Liberals"--as I understand them--think that part of government's job is to improve ONLY the lot of the "lowly" and to protect the "powerless," hence "bleeding hearts."
It is to this end only that strict "liberals" seek strong public education, welfare support, and public health. I've got to disagree with you on morals. In my experience, I see more "conservatives"--with the exception of pure "libertarians"--seeking to restrict freedoms in this arena. I think abortion and gay marriage are good examples. The conservative positions on these issues clearly--and ironically--fit your definition of the "liberal" ill which I quote above. Actually, many "conservatives" and many "liberals" are only pro-freedom when it comes to certain issues, e.g. guns for many of the former, sexual/reproductive issues for many of the latter.These are my points in summary (should have done this long ago, eh?) <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>:
1. Boilerplate definitions of what all members of a group believe in or stand for break down quickly. If I engaged in definitions of that sort earlier a) I didn't mean to and I should have been clearer, and b) I hope I've been more precise this time around! <img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle>
2. Neither "side" avoids hypocracy. I really don't think either affiliation is more for freedom or restriction; it just depends on the issues. I don't think that you and I can kid ourselves and say we stand on the side of Liberty, big L. Instead we stand on the side with which we agree on specific issues.
Thanks for the exchange. I appreciate your arguments and enjoy searching out the common ground. I'm happy to keep the discussion here, but maybe we should take this back-channel? We're getting pretty far from Andy Rooney! Feel free to email me.
Best.
12-08-2002, 04:58 AM
#43
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,413
RE: Andy Rooney calls bow hunting "barbaric"
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>..."liberals" seek strong public education,...<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
There's an oxymoron if I've ever heard one. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Sorry, had to get that one in. I do agree with your statements of not lumping everyone in one definition. I should have thrown in more words like, "most" and "many" in my statement.
There's an oxymoron if I've ever heard one. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Sorry, had to get that one in. I do agree with your statements of not lumping everyone in one definition. I should have thrown in more words like, "most" and "many" in my statement.
12-09-2002, 06:59 AM
#46
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: WEST PALM FLORIDA
Posts: 2,890
RE: Andy Rooney calls bow hunting "barbaric"
Mwether , Thanks for your input , You seem like a very inteligent person and are very well spoken .I wish I had your gifts in that respect ,my spelling and puncuation suck but I think I get my point across in spite of myself . I'm sure if we meet face to face we would be freinds . I've been hunting all weekend so have not hade a chance to respond . The first point I said "most not all" I'm glad you are one of the not all's . The second point I was not talking about asistance or programs for the poor ,I believe we need these and they need to be monitered closely for frood and lazy or dishonest pepole . I was speeking of the fact that goverment knows to much about us and what we do day in and day out ,cameras everywhere ,tracking devices , bar codes ,chips in our animals with serial numbers that they be putting in us eventualy . Am I parinoid ? No these things are happening and it scares me to think what the world is going to be like for my kids .This is suported by the big goverment types and I think those we label liberals suport that more than those we label conservitives , although W's dad scared the hell out of me we he coined that phraise " new world order " and I dont agree with nafta or gat ,I think they hurt our farmers ( pepole we have close relations to as hunters )but they are "subsidised" another big goverment thing .I see you particialy agree with me on points 3 and 4 . Im glad we can agree to disagree . I love the way Limbaugh and O'Riely think ,and some have mentioned Mr Nugent here . I think this guy is great . Hes out there crazy "gonzo" as he puts it but a great guy in my book .
This is getting very close to being off topic so this will be my last responce .
If information provided by the members of this board have helped you please let us know .
Edited by - ijimmy on 12/09/2002 08:02:59
This is getting very close to being off topic so this will be my last responce .
If information provided by the members of this board have helped you please let us know .
Edited by - ijimmy on 12/09/2002 08:02:59
12-10-2002, 06:29 PM
#47
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cheverly MD USA
Posts: 24
RE: Andy Rooney calls bow hunting "barbaric"
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I'm sure if we meet face to face we would be freinds . ...Im glad we can agree to disagree .
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
I couldn't sum it up better, ijimmy. In fact, this is for you from the "virtual bartender"! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
All the best.
I'm sure if we meet face to face we would be freinds . ...Im glad we can agree to disagree .
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
I couldn't sum it up better, ijimmy. In fact, this is for you from the "virtual bartender"! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
All the best.
12-11-2002, 03:49 AM
#48
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Jax beach Fl. usa
Posts: 4,031
RE: Andy Rooney calls bow hunting "barbaric"
Bowfanatic, don't expect to get a reply. CBS gets gobs of e-mail everyday.
I think they just hit the delete button.
My e-mail was like this;
Recently Andy Rooney made it clear that he thinks bowhunters couldn't hit the side of a barn, however that is a missinformed statement. Personally I can hit a quarter at 60 feet. There are some who can do that at 60 yards!
FOOLPROOF?
Never underestimate the power of a fool!
What if the "Hokey Pokey" really is what it's all about?
I think they just hit the delete button.
My e-mail was like this;
Recently Andy Rooney made it clear that he thinks bowhunters couldn't hit the side of a barn, however that is a missinformed statement. Personally I can hit a quarter at 60 feet. There are some who can do that at 60 yards!
FOOLPROOF?
Never underestimate the power of a fool!
What if the "Hokey Pokey" really is what it's all about?
12-11-2002, 06:09 PM
#50
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cheverly MD USA
Posts: 24
RE: Andy Rooney calls bow hunting "barbaric"
Hi krisken! Welcome to the political round table that won't end!
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Mwether,
My brother-in-law is a great speaker,like yourself and a socialist(we have many spirtited debates)who just dosent care what makes sence,only what makes him feel good.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Thanks for the compliment! Unlike your brother-in-law, I'm sure I make nothing but sense to you! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
The diffrence between the left and the right is that a leftist can only tell you what is in his/her heart.
On the other hand,a conservative can tell you what is on his/her mind
<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
I love this; assuming in the case of the conservative that there's actually something in there!!<img src=icon_smile_kisses.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
It is because of the way our country has been turned over to the goverment that we now have a minority of the map controling the majority.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
You are exactly right! Gore won the popular vote--but not the electoral college--and so now we have a minority (Bush supporters) controlling the majority!<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
(Just for the record, I'm not in favor of condoms in schools or abortion.)
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I'll take a backwoods baptist over a darwin hugging liberal anyday!<img src=icon_smile_kisses.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_kisses.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_kisses.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
C'mon now, I can think of circumstances where this wouldn't be true... Say you're out chasing whitetails and fall into a swamp up to your neck. On the bank is a Pentecostal minister so moved by the Spirit that he's speaking in tongues and gyrating all over the place and generally oblivious to your situation. Just so happens there's also a tree-hugging member of Greenpeace who is living in an old-growth monster nearby so that Big Logging Conglomerate, Inc. won't cut it down. He spots you flailing around in the mud, rappels down, and saves your grateful behind! Now who do you take?! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Yours...smiling.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Mwether,
My brother-in-law is a great speaker,like yourself and a socialist(we have many spirtited debates)who just dosent care what makes sence,only what makes him feel good.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Thanks for the compliment! Unlike your brother-in-law, I'm sure I make nothing but sense to you! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
The diffrence between the left and the right is that a leftist can only tell you what is in his/her heart.
On the other hand,a conservative can tell you what is on his/her mind
<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
I love this; assuming in the case of the conservative that there's actually something in there!!<img src=icon_smile_kisses.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
It is because of the way our country has been turned over to the goverment that we now have a minority of the map controling the majority.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
You are exactly right! Gore won the popular vote--but not the electoral college--and so now we have a minority (Bush supporters) controlling the majority!<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
(Just for the record, I'm not in favor of condoms in schools or abortion.)
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I'll take a backwoods baptist over a darwin hugging liberal anyday!<img src=icon_smile_kisses.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_kisses.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_kisses.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
C'mon now, I can think of circumstances where this wouldn't be true... Say you're out chasing whitetails and fall into a swamp up to your neck. On the bank is a Pentecostal minister so moved by the Spirit that he's speaking in tongues and gyrating all over the place and generally oblivious to your situation. Just so happens there's also a tree-hugging member of Greenpeace who is living in an old-growth monster nearby so that Big Logging Conglomerate, Inc. won't cut it down. He spots you flailing around in the mud, rappels down, and saves your grateful behind! Now who do you take?! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Yours...smiling.