Len in Maryland

Here are some interestingquestions recently asked by a tournament archer. The reasons presented were bothvalid and misguided; but, the substance of the subject has a lot of merit. I thought a thread here might interest and stimulate some viewers - and especially some shop owners. He wrote (with slight editing for clarity):[/align]

Quote:

Why call it a Pro Shop ? Why don't these shops just go by the name of Archery Hunting stores, they really just sell about the same stuff as your local Dicks or Gander Mt. It is all about Deer hunting, as the Deer populations and land decline so goes the archery shops. I went to three different so-called Pro shops trying to find Woody's arrow lube or just any lube. Target stablizers, don't think so, only hunting stablizers. Need a target sight or lens for a scope,don't think so. Then the owners ***** and complain when people order from places like Keystone archery! If they are going to put all their eggs in one basket with the Deer hunters they are going to loose. Deer hunting, Deer population and hunting lands are on the decline,these people are going to leave Archery and take up
golf.[/align]

My initial response is this:[/align]Some PRO Shops do exist. I do agree with you that a lot of shops shouldn't use the name PRO. It annoys me as much as you because they give the industry/profession a poor and misleading image.

I try to carry the items that aren't carried by the big merchants or those that they usually run low on at times during the year. I also carry the higher-end items that they can't/won't. I have to keep my eye on inventory levels, however, because of the manufacturers changing things from year to year.

For instance, I have Woody's in stock and many targets including 3D, but I won't stock target stabilizers, only a few target scopes, and no bows in colors. And there are many reasons why.

First, in the State of Maryland and especially around urban areas, bow hunting is on the rise. As more and more large tracts of land are being developed/divided, smaller parcels become very attractive. Deer, shoved off large parcels, are forced into the smaller ones and into peoples' back yards. The gun hunters can't get at those deer which become overpopulated and overbearing. To the rescue, the Bowhunter.

When I first started my business, I tried to cater to tournament archers. They used me and abused me. Used my facility and tried to use my tools/equipment, but returned little. When it came to buying their sundry items, they would purchase them from Lancaster or at the shoots. After all, the vendors/manufacturers at the shoots would sell them the products for my cost and they usually had their entire lineup there.

I soon realized that 95% of the industry was hunters and tried to cater to that market. I was a lot more successful. I did, however, have to control the cliques or the 'bubba' image. I didn't put all my "eggs in one basket," but I did have to capitalize on the more advantageous market.

It took years to develop my expertise. Many didn't realize that I was bringing my engineering talents from the last 30 years into this business, which is my retirement business. As time went on more and more tournament archers began to find out how well I could tune their bows in many aspects. I still don't get the 'hardware' tournament business, but I get a goodly amount of 'make it shoot better' business.

Maybe I'm unique, but it took a lot to survive a double '9/11'. Right after the economy took a dive due to the WTC bombings, a bomb called Bass Pro Shops moved just 7 miles away. Combine that with a Dick's just 1 mile away and several Wal-Marts, and it was tough for a lot of years. Even those at BPS wonder how I've survived.

If I had depended on the tournament business back then, I wouldn't be here to service their needs right now. While I wouldn't mind a bigger tournament market, it's just not in the cards for me. I told many a Dealer in the PA area that they'd see an exodus of small shops once Gander Mountain and BPS move into central PA. Those smaller shops that survive after 5 years will/should benefit; but, they may have to change their ways of doing business. I think right now I could probably write a survival book on this issue.

Don't be too hard on some of them. They won't change and will go under. The ones that are willing to change, however, support them so that they'll be there when you really need them.

Good luck and good shooting to all, and a Happy New Year.[/align][/align]

mobow

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! Sometimes people just don't realize the value and importance of a pro shop. Believe it or not, there are some things you simply CANNOT get anywhere else. This "Wal Mart" mentality is just plain old ignorance. Folks get their stuff from "other" stores because they believe it's cheaper. LOL....OK, maybe initially. But what about when something needs fixed? Where do you take it? Certainly not back to Wal Mart! They look at you like you have lobsters crawling out of their ears! "You want us to do what?" "The cams are out of time?? HUH???" Even just simple things like grease and lube, restringing, cam lean......

What people don't realize is that they now HAVE to take it to a pro shop, and I can't speak for them all, just the one I work for, but if you buy your bow from us we don't charge labor to work on it. Just parts. BUT, if you don't get it from us, there is a pretty hefty labor charge.

Besides that, our repeat, loyal customers get "special" treatment and generally there is a discount or two tossed in there once in a while. Add all that up, and that BassPro bow has now cost more than the Pro Shop ONLY bow.

We, like you, cater to the hunter. We are in a rural setting made up of carpenters, farmers, factory workers and such. ( I don't mean that w/ a negative connotation, AT ALL!) My point is, they are hunters, not target shooters. The only "target" shooting they do all year is a 3D shoot or two and even those are bowhunter shoots. I've talked w/ some of them about 5 spot leagues, FITA and such......They have absolutely NO idea what I'm talking about. Point being, we simply don't carry target archery supplies, they would sit on our shelves for an eternity. BUT, we will order whatever you want, so if we don't have it, we will w/in a week.

Folks are gonna be in trouble if we don't continue support of our pro shops. Back to the labor issues......BassPro hires folks off the street. They may, or may NOT, have any archery knowledge at all, or limited at best. Again, take that bow back there for work......Good luck. I've seen SO MANY times people come in w/ a bow they bought from "X" store and the comment is always the same...."This bow just isn't comfortable. I don't enjoy shooting it." We look at it, and it's no darn wonder.....The draw length is hardly ever right, the poundage is too heavy/light, and I remember one time the guy was right handed and they sold him a left handed bow! ARE YOU SERIOUS???? The only thing they care about is the sale. Period.

OK, I've gone on long enough. Support your Pro Shops folks!

Greg / MO

I agree on two points here: the first and foremost thing a local shop needs to do is to differentiate himself from a big box store, and that usually comes in the form of knowledge and service. I also understand how local shops have to monitor inventory levels and key in on what's moving.

My biggest complaint -- and probably wrapped up somewhere in the original poster's thoughts -- is that many, if not most, of the pro shops I go into don't seem inclined to truly study their industry. I know some are stretched thin trying to simultaneously manage a retail store and in conjunction run a pro shop -- but if the goal is to truly offer a pro shop, then keep abreast of the industry. I'm amazed at how many owners I talk to never frequent internet forums such as this or AT, and consequently have no "pulse" of what's currently hot or is the latest "must-have" item -- especially in lines they already carry.

If I'm going to affix the "pro" moniker to a store, I also want the owner or lead tech to know more than I do. I have a lot of fun with bowhunting, and enjoy the companionship and comraderie I find on these forums, but unfortunately, it's not my professional career. I want those for whom it is to be able to teach me, not vice versa.

I guess in a nutshell, Len, is that I'm looking for a "you" when I think of whata pro shop ought to be. I've said it before, but I wish you lived closer.

Rickmur

Do a search and you will find all the info you want to know about Pro Shop verses whatever, lord knows it has be discussed time and time again.

Greg / MO

yeah, but what topic hasn't? [8D]

Elkcrazy8

Len, it sounds like good business practice to me. The shop that I shoot for and work at during the busy season ( voluteer work) can help you get the "hardware" for target shooting, but onlycarries in stock items more geared for hunting. Its funny that you mention that only a small percentage is target and the majority is hunting. That is exactly why you see Hoyt getting moreinto the hunting market more recently and not putting all their eggs in to one basket with the target bows. They are trying to keep up with the trend.That is the main reason why it takes so long to get target color bows this time of year. They are making sure that the main money maker is taken care of first. Big companies are even seeing the same thing and capitalizing on this.

If a shop is a true pro shop, I would expect the guy behind the counter knows what he or she is talking about and not just share in a common interest with the customer. As an archer starts to pick up more and more, it would not take long to figure out if these so called pro shops fit the bill as a pro shop.

We have had a shop in town for a long time where the owner was a 15 time state champion and so forth. The bows that came out of that shop were set up absolutly terrible. Servings looked like they were done in a 3rd grade art class, and knock points were set up so that the bow was going to shoot straight into the ground. I know that he knew better, but a couple of people that he had working for him had nothing but a common love for archery with the customers and probably knew less than the people coming in for help.

We now have a Cabelas and also a Sportsmans Warehouse in town. It is amazing the bows that come in the shop which were originally purchased at one of these places. Service is one of the key factors why these bows keep showing up at our doorstep. It is easy to find someone to sell bows for you. It is another to find someone who knows what to do after the sale is made. That is where a pro shop will stand out. A true pro shop will be able to walk you right to the end product and make you want to come back for expert advice when it comes time to make another purchase.

muzzyman88

Very good points. I have two shops close by. One is very good, just does not carry my prefered bow. The other does, but I do not let them do any work on my bows. It seems that there is a lack of passion for the sport at most shops. They just carry and sell their merchandise and not worry too much about keeping up with the industry. Example, I just purchased a new Bowtech. The module numbers have changed slightly from '06. They were not aware of this. Now, this is partly the manufacturers fault as well so I will not lay all blame on this shop, but I think its something that should have been looked into.

The only true issue I have with the both shops is lack of quality merchandise. Both carry a wide range of low to mid range stuff, just not much in the way of top end. I realize its difficult to carry this in store because it may hang on a rack for a long time. It just stinks to have to guess sometimes and go off of pictures or internet research to make a decision.

I personally feel that all "pro' shops should have to under go some type of "seal of approval" from the industry. Information and training would help a long way in making sure these shops have a handle on the product they carry.

Bols

And this is exactly what I want to find.

I am willing to buy all of my hunting/target accessories from a "pro-shop" but the problem lies in their customer service or my lack of trust.

If I hada Len or any other guy on here that obviously knows what they are doing, I would not only try to learnoff of them, I would buy exclusively from them.

Why?

Because, I am a loyal guy willingto finda "pro"who can be loyal, knowledgeable andhonest about servicing me and my archery needs.

I would spend the extra money knowing I have the peace of mind my "pro" is willing to spend the extra time with his customers.


Couldn't agree with you more.

Great post Len. And Ishare the same sediments many others on this forum have, I wish you were closer.

Dave

atlasman

Greg said it best. I am all for supporting local business of any kind but that support is a two way street IMO. I have walked into too many shops over the years and just stood there with hardly even anyone saying "hello"........some places are too busy and some places just don't care. I judge people by how they act, how they treat me and what they know about my bow........not by what counter they are standing behind. I have met people in retail settings that I would trust with my gear vs some guys in pro shops that I wouldn't let walk my dog. There is good and bad everywhere. Most of the time these big retail stores have guys working at their counters that they pushed out of business or guys that just traded the headaches of ownership for a steady paycheck.

I will take my stuff to someone I trust, like as a person and feel confident they are good at what they do. If that guy happened to be at Bass Pro then so be it. I (and I'm sure most people here) buy A LOT of products from big retail shops so I don't want to sound hypocritical and say I would never use their pro shop.......I would if I liked and trusted the guy who ran it.

Having said that.........I have never taken a bow anywhere other then small private shops. We only have a couple left but they are pretty solid.

Greg...........the number of people that visit these kinds of forums is just a drop in the bucket and a nitch market at best of people that are avid hunters and/or archers who like to yap it up in a pseudo chat room environment. Is there valuable information here?? Absolutely. Is it a good sample of your average customer?? I doubt it.

Cougar Mag

Good thread Len. I must say I completely agree with Greg on his response.