Laxdad, I hunt mostly from the ground, and Ive taken many deer still hunting, stalking, or just sitting on the ground and waiting for one to show up.Ive tracked deer as you have for miles through the snow, and Ill admitt most times it doesnt end for me with a kill, sometimes I lose the track completely, sometimes all I find at the end is a warm melted out bed and know Ive screwed up and been busted.

Im not nearly as old as you and havent near your experience.But I guesse I look at treestand hunting and its popularity a little differently.When I started hunting it was at a time when there was an open door policy for much of the land, you could hunt almost anywhere without worrying about tresspassing or running into posted ground.If you did ask a farmer or landowner for permission it was almost a strange thing for them, nobody cared where you hunted and theyd just give you a funny look and tell you to go ahead, most times theyd tell you you didnt need to ask every year.There were a few places then that didnt like hunters and everyone knew which ones they were and just steered clear of them.

Growing up hunting in these conditions was a kids dream, you could just walk out your back door and keep walking till you got what you were after, if you scared the game you could go on and find more, or pick up the track and go after it..Fast forward to today, everythings posted or leased, most guys have small chunks of land they have access to limited time to hunt.It can be difficult to get legally shot game back if it so much as crosses a property line.

When I see everyone hunting out of stands or a younger person warning against something like hunting a deer bedding area its usually because of these reasons.With limited ground to hunt trying to learn the art of still hunting, or stalking or hunting where the deer are bedding you risk the chance of chasing deer off a property that may not hold a lot of deer to begin with.Often these daystheres not the option of just moving on to a more productive area if you burn one out.

Im lucky, we have miles of public ground and 20 years worth of landowners that Ive connected with that will let me hunt.I can still hunt that way and if I do happen to mess up bad enough to run the deer out I can move on untill they come back into that area.Ive killed over 20 deer from the ground with a bow without the use of blinds or anything.Im not bragging, just leading up to my next thought.Even with that many kills I dont consider myself really good at hunting them from the ground, I still bump deer, I still get into positions where everything goes well but I cant shoot, sometimes I just flat out make bad decisions.Had I grown up only having 10,20, or even 100 acres to hunt Id have probably never gotten the limited skills I do posses now much less the chance to get really good at it.

I wasn't confused.

I grew up in the Adirondacks much the same as you. Poor family with 5 kids, about 2 1/2 acres of gardens, ran a trap line, raised our own chickens for eggs and food, picked and canned everything that grew wild(didn't have a freezer so you had to can) I'd unload the bus, be stripping off "My School clothes" so I could get in an hour or two of hunting. Our season went from walleyes in the spring to bullheads to partridge, to rabbits and deer, to snow shoe rabbits, the trap line twice a dayand back to walleyes. Did it until I went off to college and got drafted. My hunting style has changed for a couple reasons. One, time restraints. Todays families are hustle bussle from sun up to midnight. Land restraints limit how much sneaking and peaking most of us can do today. Most of us could only stalk for about 15 minutes and we'd be on posted ground and arrested. You can't do a lot of stalking on 25 and 50 acre patches. You sit and wait for the deer passing through in most cases. Even those lucky enough to have a sizeable chunk of ground have to share it. Nothing creates more hard feelings than sitting in a tree with deer around you and have someone come walking through scaring them away. Many more hunters today. In the old days deer herds were dismal by todays standards. Bow kills were also dismal. The guy who got a shot was lucky. You had to cover ground or you might see nothing for days. In those days you pretty much could hunt where you choose when you choose. A lot of the stalking was done in conjunction with drives. There were few if any bowhunters. There were no posted signs. Today the smart choice with so many animals is to sit and wait in most cases. It's not hunting as it was 40 years ago, but it is hunting the "SMART" way today. THe animals often don't realize you're around. You can let them pass and take your pick or wait for a specific animal. In the days 40 years ago it was, "If he has horns you shoot him". No need for that today. I don't think we've necessarily forgot how to hunt. I think we've learned a new and more efficient way given our personnal time restraints, land restraints, traspass laws etc. Oh it would be great to set out and not have to worry about crossing a property line or messing up the other guys in the woods. Today we work further from home, the kids have more time restraints parents are involved in. It's just the times. My brother still stalks the Adirondacks. The boy can't sit still. He doesn't bow hunt, but piles up a ton of deer meat every year. It took me 15 years to get him in a tree. He'll sit there until the sun is up and then he's moving.

Great post Dave!

Not that I was but I did get a chuckle from that one.

Double Creek, I agree, good post Dmil.

Indians are many times credited with being the "ultimate hunters", but I would like to point out that when Europeans came to North America and brought horses and firearms, Indians were quick to adopt the use of them.

It is perfectly normal for any animal, including humans to look for a way to make the hunting kill more efficient, in other words easy.

In modern times, we have reached a point where technology has required game laws to regulate equipment and methods for taking game. Otherwise people would be using helecopters and machine guns to harvest trophy bucks.

Indians used to herd buffalos and force them off of cliffs so they would fall to their deaths. I assume they did this because it was easier to harvest a large number of animals with minimal effort.

This is a great thread.
laxdad, you feel free to post as much and as often as you want. I could read your stuff all day. Thx for sharing.

Petsux/Davidmil,

Excellent posts and very reflective of the changes that have occurred inourhunting environments over the last, "n" years. Trying to keep track of which of you said what is too difficult so I'll address your very similar posts in general. First, MOST BY FAR of my hunts ended at a warm or steaming bed that was empty. That's part of the thrill when you are successful.

I never tracked an animal for miles! Because of the speed, or lack thereof, at which I would move while stalking, I could not spend hours on a track. Just like today, time was a valuable commodity and I would not waste it on on animal that may be heading for parts unknown. I, like most of you, scouted, (and still scout) an area to locate feeding, travel and bedding areas. Around 9:00 -9:30 AM I would and still do,circle the feeding area looking for a single, good sized track that was heading for an area that was known to hold beds. Then, if the terrain was conducive, I'd circle the bedding area forthatparticular track to be coming out. If it came out and headed into another area on land that I could hunt, I stayed on the track. If not, I went to another feeding area and started over. This technique is one that I developed hunting rabbits. Find fresh tracks going into a field, find none or fewer coming out and the odds were high one was somewhere in that field.

If, however, the particular track could not be found coming out, like rabbit hunting,I felt pretty confident that the animal was still in that particularbedding area. Did I get confused at times by the number of different tracks? You bet I did!! Did I get on a track and come up empty?? You bet!! Probably 10 times to every time I caught up to the animalpursued. Did the animal sometimes turn out to be a doe and not a buck? Absolutely!! (I only hunt bucks six points and up so the season would last and I'd get more time in the field. In the beginning of the season it's 10s or better. Sixes were and are reserved for the last couple of weeks.)

All of your combined points are valid. I will dispute one though and that's your conclusion that small 20-50 acre patches are not productive. In my experience they are some of the most productive, especially as pressure increases. You may protectyour "ideal" areas from incursion but I can guarantee others including the landowner will be in there cutting firewood, logging, etc.. In addition, what happens when everyone gets out of their treestands and heads for home at 8:30 AM? Notice the time I'd get serious about the time (9:30)to begin still hunting? The woods are emptying out and they'll quiet down until mid afternoon. A great time to test your skills.

By the way, I'm from the finger lakes area of NY, not the adirodack park region. Like I said, I've never been very successful in the "big" woods. I'm a farm area hunter.

And PLEASE, everyone has their own style and I do respect it. I've just attempted to offer alternatives to techniques that many of you are using. Also, I an NO expert on deer hunting. Just a man that has spent a lot of time in the outdoors enjoying himself and has been successful in teaching his sons to have a great respect for what is still available to us, even if it is different than it used to be. I've never been about killing but I've always been about hunting.

Forgive me while I babble on, but I've found gaining permission to hunt is more successful if I am cleanly shaved and in neat hunting clothes when I'm in front of the landowner. I think it may be the notion that if a person takes care of his/her appearence, then the they may respect the property as well.

I'm very self conscious of the length and tone of my posts but I'm doing the best I can. I am attempting to avoid being critical and do not want to start any p---ing contests. I am also overwhelmed by the interest in my posts. Thank you all for an exceptionally warm reception to this forum and if you're all good and I get some time today, I'll start a new thread entitled, " My Christmas Bow". After all,t'is the season......

Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays,

laxdad

And you did it well. No P---ing contest going on in this thread. Agreed, 25-50 acre patches are probably ideal since you can cover the whole area and if the deer are there you should find them. Use the wind and the old 1 step... wait 3 steps would do well. And yes, most such ventures do end up in failure, but like you say.... it is a rush. I've shot a few deer will sneaking and peaking, but honestly most successes for me in this were happening upon and seeing an approaching animal before he saw me. My closest such success was at a distance of 7 feet. He was the 11 deer in a line that were passing through, and it was in a 35 acre patch. I was bowhunting and sneaking and peaking to try and herd some deer toward a couple muzzleloader hunters. The watchers herded them my way because of the wind direction change. He'll always be one of my favorite deer.

laxdad- Very good stuff, thanks for the posts.

I absolutely love pooching around still hunting. To me it is the ultimate in hunting. To be able to stalk and kill a whitetail on their grounds with a bow is really cool. I've been succesfull in the past with it. I've never killed a big mature buck on the ground, but I have taken several deer. I am partial to still hunting in a standing corn field .

Where abouts in the Fingerlakes area laxdad? I hunt around Auburn/Throop/Sennett area.