Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
 

OK...so we know a heavier arrow carries with it more KE and momentum than a lighter arrow. We also know a lighter arrow carries w/ it more speed.

I know in days past when mostly traditional equipment was being used, and even in the early days of the compound that heavier arrows were the way to go. The weight was needed for penetration. Times have changed, however. Todays compounds are producing better than 100% KE and are as efficient as ever.

I personally no longer see the need to worry about heavy arrows and KE....I believe in MOST cases a lighter arrow shooting 300+ fps will carry enough KE to do the job. I vote for a lighter, faster arrow.

What are your thoughts?

RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
 

Not a bad thought Don. Personally I'll go with a mid-weight set-up, which is around 415gr for me. Granted, a light arrow will be enough to do the trick. But where I get slightly concerned is on say... a large pig at 45-50 yards. The heavier arrow will carry much moe of it's KE at that distance. Also my bow was shootingthe arrow at 290fps whic is plenty fast for me. Also, the heavier arrow may be slightly quieter than an arrow that is 5gr/lb. I feel that I will benefit morefrom the heavier arrow than a few extra fps. But then again... it all comes down to shot placement, regardless of what you are shooting.

RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
 

Actually I disagree.

A bow maxed out has a certain KE regardless of arrow make up to a point however a heavier arrow carrys more momentum.

When you go heavier on an arrow, obviously you gain weight, you loose speed, they offset each other in KE unless extremes are taken.

When you go lighter in weight, you gain speed again offsetting each other and maintaining the same KE unless extremes are taken.

Now we're talking 1 or 2 ft lbs. ...

I don't know of any bow today producing 100% KE....are you refering to 100 ft lbs?

My Allegiance is shooting all but 80 ftlbs of KE, it's tough getting more without longer draw lengths. I know some are pushing more.....

RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
 

OH boy, you must have had a fight with the little woman and want to fight.:D That said, the problem with your 300 fps deal is, most of us little short armed suckers will never see a 300 fps arrow. Admittedly probably we don't try.... and why???? Well first off the short arms. SEcondly, the short arms. I shoot a 314 fps bow, but when I get down to my SHORT ARMS and my heritage of shooting 125 grain fixed heads I'm just never going to see it. Add my string loop, leeches, heavy vanes and all that, I have my 314 fps bow dumbed down to about 260. So be it. That heavy little sucker kills and I like it in the wind, rain, snow or shine. Some are speed freaks, some are not.... it all works if you can shoot. Me, I'm pushing 445 grains with one bow and 525 with my backup. One at 67 foot pounds and one at 74

RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
 

I agree mobow...another vote for a lighter, faster arrow:D

RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
 

Exactly. Which is why I am changing to lighter, faster arrows. If I can get speeds in the 310-315 range and carry close to the same KE as I get now in the 286 range, I'm gonna do it.

No, sir. Take my set up for instance. I pull only 67 pounds, but I am producing 73 pounds of KE....that's something like.....113% I think....

RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
 

youll lose quiteness for speed me personally i like the heavier arrows

RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
 

Ah, I see....at 70 lbs I'm producing 80 ft lbs.... but you see, I cannot tell you the last time my arrow passed completely through an animal. I have entrance and exit holes but not arrow sticking behind the animal. Actually, it was before my ACC's....they weigh in at 381 including the 100 grain head. A heavier arrow will slow my bow but my KE will remain the same however the heavier arrow will have better penetration. I've killed 5 bucks with these arrows out of two different bows, no complete pass throughs, again exit wounds but the arrow remained in the animal.

There is a good reason for heavier arrows.

RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
 

Yeah, but again....with today's bows made as quiet as they are, that gain is minimal. I shot one of my ACC's that checks in at 425 gr. and 286 fps, then I shot a CX Maxima that weighed 380 gr. and 308 fps......I couldn't hear the difference. I'm sure a decible meter would detect it, but not my ears.

RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
 

Another reason I go a little heavier instead of lightning fast, sound and wear and tear on the equipment. The heavier the quieter and the less strain on the bow.

RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
 

I'm with dwd on this one. When I went with lighter arrows I didn't get the results I was used to when shooting deer. Went back to a set up of med weight and I was happy again. I spined a deer(not intended placement so no ethics police needed)this year at 30 yards and still penatrated one lung completely. Arrow was 3/4 buried. I was shooting a 2006Alegence at 275 fps and everyoneknows what that bow is capable of as far as speed so I was way below what it can shoot because I chose a heavier arrow.

RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
 

LOL, yeah, it would appear that way, wouldn't it?? Actually though, no, not at all. I just get tired of the "Which bow" threads, and "Are Blazers any good" threads, ect. ect.......This one I thought would provoke some thought. I am interested in what guys like yourself....(how to put this delicately,,,,,,) That have been doing this for years ( how's that?) feel about this. The technology is such that I just feel like it's not as big a factor as it was......a few years ago.

RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
 

Same here Rick with an arrow to the light side, spined this years buck...but read my last reply. I'm in favor of a heavier side arrow but I love my ACC's and am hard pressed giving them up. I don't ever not have an exit hole but haven't had a pass through yet with these arrows. I preach as heavy carbon as you can get great flight with regardless of speed. ArthurP will set us straight with heavy vs light arrows...lol

A good medium is right on the money of both weight and speed.

RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
 

Thats wierd, I haven't had an arrow that didn't pass thru in the last 10 years, no kidding. All pass thrus.

RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
 

I have had the opposite results. I have never NOT had a complete pass through on a whitetail buck or doe. I usually hunt from 370-390 grains. A few of these whitetails were well over 200 pounds live weight as well.

RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
 

Rob your deer must have brick internals :D:D. I honestly can't tell you the lastanimal(hogs included)my arrow didn't pass completely through...

RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
 

I can't explain it, the last 5 bucks I've taken from 2000-2006 I have not passed through.

One gut shot, see recovery thread buck...no pass through, recovered the deer with arrow in the cavity.

3 bucks, perfect double lungs, no pass through, recovered animals with arrow in cavity.

This years buck was a spine so that's understandable.

Again, can't explain it, you have to figure all but 80 ft lbs on an arrow at 301 this year, slightly less the last 5 with an arrow at 285 fps....
Anyone?

RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
 

Keep on track fellas....keep on track.....:D:D

Both of my deer were pass through's this year as well. One was buried 6" deep in the ground, the other I just couldn't find...I don't think it ever stopped.....:D Rob, I agree those ACC's are mighty fine arrows, I almost hate to give them up, but they just weigh too much....Superlite or no.....;)

RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
 

Yep. Mechanical broadheads. You have been using Snyper's, yes? They just eat up the KE......of course, you've also used Muzzy......so that blows that theory out of the water....

RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
 

Something isn't adding up there Robby boy. Are you shooting deer with blunts?

RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
 

LOL MO HO,

Actually I wonder if mobow hit the common demoninator. All 5 bucks were shot with RM Snypers. I haven't shot a deer with Muzzy's since. I'm not knocking the Snypers because the hole is unbelievable and after all, all 5 were recoveries but I wonder. What ya'll think?

I'm looking for your input.

Sorry for the hijack mobow but were still talking penetration and KE here.

RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
 

That's allright my friend.....we'll just kill 2 birds w/ one stone.....I've already decided on lighter/faster, I just was looking for a good conversation, which has indeed happened.

I bet the mechanical is what it is.....They burn up the KE and those big, 2" cutters create lots of drag.....

RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
 

I, personally, am very confident in my shot placement. Therefore, I always ask myself"how deep is deep enough". I have watched annually as my younger sister kills bull elk after bull elk with her 52 pound bow. Her penetration is absolutely nothing in comparision to mine (I pull and shoot 405 grain arrows w/ a velocity of 290 ft/sec from an80 lbs bow). Fact of the matter, each bull she has collected is just as dead as every bull I've ever killled. So the question is: how deep is deep enough? I like shooting light and fast. I want my arrow to hit exactly where I'm aiming- period!Reaction time (jumping string)of the animal is greatly reduced by a fast arrow, Thus my arrows usually hit where I've intended. Sure, I'll take a pass through whenever I can, but honestly, how deep is deep enough? How much more dead do you want them? One thing for sure, they won't die (OR YOU WON'T FIND THEM) if you cannot hit 'em in the right spot.

Find that arrow combination ( mass/ velocity) that works best from your rig. There is no one right answer....TOO MANY VARIBLES!Be proficient with your equipment and enjoy your time afield.

RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
 

Rob I agree with the mech theory. That's the only feasible explanation. The only thing I've shot with mechs recently were pigs and a turkey, but both pigs were inside of 10 yards so that doesn't really count.

RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
 

I made a joke about the blunts but thats what I was really thinking, that your broadheads wern't getting the job done. Your put a G5 100 grain striker on there next year and I gurantee a pass thru. Like you said though you had all nice exit holes and 5 recovered deer. Its hard to argue with success.

RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
 

I shoot a 475 grain arrow. I may switch to the 140 grain Montec next year. 490 grain arrow

IMO shoot the heaviest arrow you can, with todays bows speed is not a factor.

I am still shooting around 250 FPS

I am 11 for 11 with this setup, 9 were pass thrus. Two buried in the opposit shoulder.

RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
 

I've used this arrow setup for 10 years: 29" Easton XX78 Super Slam 2314 with Thunderhead 125 broadheads. I don't know how much this arrow weighs, much less how much k/e I get. But, I do know this; I've gotten pass-throughs on 17 of my 19 kills. The two that didn't pass-through were poor shots.

RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
 

huckleberry, you hit my point right on the head.....and besides that, I bet I STILL get a passthrough, even w/ a 380 gr. arrow @ 310.....That's 81 pounds of KE......I'll take that. Even if the speed is only 305, that's more than enough.

RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
 

huck, i have to disagree slightly. In the grand scheme I don't think the difference in reaction time is 'greatly' reduced. A little, yes, but let's be honest the sound of the bow still reaches the animal almost three times faster than the arrow. No disrespect meant.

RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
 

I agree with dwd here Will, we have to remember that speeds are in feet per second and our arrows are never in the air a whole second so even 30 fps here or there has no significance on a deers reacation time.

I had a deer fully duck my arrow at 285, the deer was calm, head down feeding, leg forward 19 yards. They are amazing.

And I honestly think they hear the arrow more than the bow.

RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
 

dwd, I agree with that statement....but to my original point, today's bows are made so well that there just isn't much noise anyway.....Not that it's a moot point, it certainly isn't .....Deer hear very, very well, no question. But let's face it.....My new Vectrix is .......80% quieter than my ProLine Riptide.....

RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
 

You got that right, Mon Ami! You ever hear an arrow through the air....it....whistles....Those ACC's are awefully quiet though. Yes, I've heard them as compared to a less expensive carbon....The ACC was MUCH quieter in the air.....

RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
 

You are giving up forgiveness with those extreme speeds.

With your 33" bow,you might want to consider it.;)



I shoot 380 grainACC'sbut I am at 6.5 grain/lb. I always get passthroughs.I also shoot expandables.Rocket Steelheads but they are expandables.Maybe I need to quit shooting small deer.[:o]

RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
 

Whose talking aboutdeer Rob? I'm talking cape buffalo. They're fast, but not as fast as a whitetail. Again, I'm trying to give my arrow the best possibility of hitting exactly where I'm aiming and especially on those longer down range shots. I'll take those factions of a second whenever I can get them. I know my arrow will do the job when it hits the mark.

RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
 

Rob, I wouldn't blame the mechanicals. I use Hammerheads, 3 blades and a 2 " cut. Unless I hit the off side shoulder blade I get pass threws all the time. Now most of my shots have been 20 yds or less, so maybe that is something to consider. I shoot a 410 grain axis at around 285 fps. out of my switchback.

RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
 

No, I really don't think so. This isn't extreme enough to matter that much....If we were talking 320+ or 330, oh hell yeah, absolutely.. But then again, how are we ever gonna get any better if we don't push ourselves, right? ;)

RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
 

Tfox,

I think that depends on the individual.

RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
 

Rob, I'm surprised that you say your last several deer you haven't had a pass through. I don't remember the last time i didn't have one. With todays equipment I think more are pass throughs than are not.

RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
 

hey mobowhuntr

Come back in a couple years and tell me the same thing.[8D]

This goes in the experience thread.:)


Rob,you should be able to blow through deer with 80 ft/lb's energy,even with a 2" mechanical.regardless of the weight of the arrow.You must have an arrow that is underspined or not tuned exactly right or something.

I hate posting that becauseI know you are experienced and KNOW what you are doing but I know too many people using 2" cut at 80 ft/lb and blowing through everything.

UNLESS the snypers just don't penetrate well compared to Rockets,which might very well be the case.

RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
 

I agree David, I haven't thought about it until this thread but I haven't had a complete passthru in 5 bucks. Exit holes yes, arrow out of the deer, no...and I haven't shot a doe in those years.

Again, 381 grain arrow, 285 fps out of my Hoyt, 301 out of my Bowtech but again, the Bowtech buck was a spined animal.