kgkoon

The big buck management is all fine and good, but there are a lot of us who could care less about big bucks. I am out to have fun, enjoy the woods, and kill deer. I don't care if it is 12 point or a spike. Where I hunt, we can only kill bucks with 3 points on one side. I killed a 5 point yesterday and have no regrets. So you can "educate" me on your opinion, but that is all it boils down to: an opinion. Some people care about big bucks, others don't.

BOWFANATIC

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<font color=red>BOWFANATIC...he can still have fun and not shoot little bucks can't he?</font id=red>


Apparently not , read his post again!

<font color=red>What was my ignorant belittling post anyway?</font id=red>

&quot;they
come in so easy to calls that sometimes I think if I wanted to call one in I could actually whistle to it and say &quot;come here boy, come on, come to daddy, fetch the stick boy, go on, get the stick boy&quot;.

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>


Education -vs- emotion huh? Your education is based on trophy buck management and nothing else! Your a trophy hunter period! Their are alot of us &quot;regular ole plain vanilla brown it's down kinda guys&quot;. In laymans terms , we're hunters!

<font color=red>Some people don't agree with Quality Deer Management but every time a hunter decides to shoot or not shoot a deer it is a management decision which affects the given herd. Is shooting an immature buck a prudent management decision...not in my opinion and not according to many more qualified biologists opinions either.</font id=red>

Wrong! Your confusing QDM with TBM! BOWDACIOUS did his QDM part by harvesting three doe this year. QDM is indeed an important management tool , but there is a big difference between QDM and trophy buck management. QDM is a tool to improve the overall health quality of the heard that was taken further by big $$$ outfitters to create more big $$$ trophy bucks. Wisconsin DNR and alot of other states have been practicing QDM with their aggressive doe harvest plans. At least the outfitters around here call it what it is , Trophy Buck Management.

As far as the guys who have seen pics of monster bucks ,and say they'd probably crap their pants if they saw one<img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle> I bet if you had your way and everyone everywhere practiced TBM , then nobody would crap their pants when the big one walked in , it would be just another big buck , ho hum. Some hunters are perfectly happy harvesting mediocre bucks while hoping some day that huge trophy buck (you know , that rare mystical creature , the one you cant see everytime you go out , due to TBM) will come by.


<---Doug---<<<

kgkoon

Bowfanatic, you are exactly right. For years the Arkansas Game and Fish managed the herd for QUANTITY, that is, to try and produce as many deer as possible. Back in the 90s they switched to a QUALITY deer management system to even the buck-doe ratios and reduce the herd. Now, since 98, we are under a Commission imposed TROPHY management system. No buck can be killed unless it has 3 points on one side. A lot of people like this rule, however, I have talked to a lot that don't. There are several ways to manage deer, and some come down to a matter of taste. You can have quality (that is healthy) deer management without using a trophy management system.

JRW

You know, we have a lot of public hunting grounds in IL that have point restrictions. Last season was the first time that I'd ever hunted in one. Right at the check-in booth, there was a big sign with the regulations spelled out regarding what you can and can't kill there.

The title of the sign was something to the effect of &quot;this is a TROPHY MANAGEMENT area&quot;. At least they were honest about it.

JRW

wolfen68

Quality Deer Management=Trophy Bucks so in essence, one could say that quality deer management is trophy deer management...one could certainly NOT say that non-QDM=TDM. Also, I would say that a lot of areas I hunt are in good health, buck to doe ratios are reasonable and most bucks are likely to reach at least 3.5 years of age and I guarantee you that when a PY or better buck nears my stand I get pumped beyond description...there aren't monster bucks walking by your treestand every 5 minutes 20 yards broadside begging you to shoot them...what a horrible and ignorant misconception. Old bucks=smart bucks...young bucks=dumb bucks. Have a nice evening.

skeeter 7MM

Not to choose sides or get into a debate here but i think what Wolfen is saying is: &quot;If you want to up your chances at harvesting a HOLY CRAP deer&quot; you need to hold off on the immature bucks. Shooting the first thing with horns is fine a dandy, but in the same breath you can't say I never see deer like that &quot;HOLY CRAP&quot;. Pretty hard to raise the level of the deer heard if they are always stunted to 2-3 year old bucks. Impossible to harvest a trophy with your treestand in the garage, bow in its case and your tag on a 4 pointer. I think that is what he is trying to say, call it what ever type of management that you want. He views this an opportunity to enlighten you on his opinion, standards goals, reasons...he just like Bow did.

I have stated i have no problems with &quot;meat hunters&quot;, what ever floats your canoe...however it seems many &quot;meat hunters&quot; have a real problem with &quot;trophy hunters&quot;. While are standards & goals may be different our reasons and love of this sport are not....we are all hunters, opinions aside. It isn't fair for me to preach to you about Trophy Hunting, like wise it isn't fair for you to preach to me about &quot;meat hunting&quot;. Sure we need to share and enlighter each other on the aspects, perspectives, why we do what we do, etc but that shouldn't be from the top of a soap box or horse with an iron hand. Yeap, I'll admit it goes both ways...but it is opinion and to share is free speach, to preach is well...you get the picture!

My observation of hunter these days, we are far more educated on the effects of managing a herd...wether meat or trophy. To me that points to only better deer herds & quality for all. When I started it was taboo to shoot a doe and a kong to shot any buck...that has changed and I can bet all of you can relate to the positives this a=has produced (wether increased sighting, bag limits, more meat or bigger animals -horn and body weight). This education incompass both QDM and TBM in way or form.

happy hunting and that is my 2 pennies worth.

CAJUNBOWHNTR

I read a really good article several years ago about the stages we go through as hunters.In the begining we just want to kill a deer period.Any deer.Then as we become proficient at killing deer we want to fill all our tags or kill our limit as we would say down south.Then we want to kill nice bucks or trophys.After you kill a few nice deer then how you kill them becomes the challnge.Bowhunting or muzzle loading etc.Some of us never get out of the filling our limit stages or the trophy stage.I think thats why you see so many different opinions. Many of us are at different stages in hunting and in life.I know from my personal experience I used to kill everything I could,we killed alot of young bucks and very few mature deer.MS went to a 4 point or better(total) to protect 1 1/2 old bucks.We also aggresively shoot does.We have been killing some nice mature deer,some trophys some not.We now only shoot bucks with a 17 inch beam length(not spread).For us this is a 3 1/2 old deer.Now that we let young bucks walk and shoot alot of does we have a more defined rut and a more balanced sex ratio.I can kill 5 does legally so I don't feel the need to shoot a small buck.Now there are some places that are so hard hunted and pressured that you would be wasting your time to practice a mangement plan while your neighbors blast everthing that walks.We have about 15000 acres around us in QDM.It has made a big difference in our herd.I would however never impose my beliefs on anyone else or belittle anyone for killing any deer that is legal.That being said I do believe that QDM can produce a more balanced deer herd.It is not trophy management.Some people make it that.It is only intended to allow a more balanced age structure.Not every deer that gets to 4 years will be a &quot;trophy&quot; or BC deer.Not where I hunt.But if you are killing a mature 3-4 year old buck in my hard hunted neck of the woods then you've done something regardless of the size of his rack.

Billy

WHACKEM N STACKEM

TxCowboy

Wolfen, I want to tell you that I have read alot of your posts and I disagree with you alot of the time. <u>However,</u> I think you are 100% correct this time. I'm not putting down guys who are tickled to death with a 4pt or 6pt. I'm putting down the guys who shoot a 6pt so he can say he killed a buck. He will cut the rack off the buck and it will end up in a box in his garage or storage room. If he was really proud of it, he'd have a shoulder mount if he could afford it. If not he'd at least have it mounted on a board and proudly display if for all to see.

I know that alot of guys say that horns don't mean one thing to them but I honestly don't believe a word of it. It might be true of some guys but a small minority. That being said, everyone wants to kill a monster and only a few are willing to sacrifice and let them grow. I'm not trying to belittle anyone for shooting small bucks, it is a free world. I just see a little bit of hipocracy(sp) in this debate.

Here is where the difference lies and I'm willing to admit it. Some people are competitive and want to achieve the most possible. Those attributes normally follow a person into their chosen sport or hobby. On the other hand some people just enjoy the sport because it is relaxing and don't ever set any goals. Only the guys who are sold out and willing to make huge sacrifices, go to the pros in football or baseball. They are willing to do anything neccessary to play in the Super Bowl. On the other hand alot of guys are happy playing football in the backyard or watching it on the couch. It takes all kinds and hunting is no different. To each his own.

Just my opinion.



--------------------------------------------
Hunting the Piney Woods of Deep East Texas.

OnlyBow

I pass on Button Bucks, Spikes, and yearlings. Besides that I shoot, unles they are over 30 yds away. I hunt for the meat, if i get a trophy...all the better!!!

RICHIE3

As far as whether to &quot;push&quot; or &quot;force&quot; anothers ideas on someone else, this is not a correct way to view the arguements of others.
Bowdacious is far from being a stupid person, and far from being an inexperienced hunter, and he knew exactly the responses, debates, and arguemnets he was going to recieve when he posted this thread. So, take the good with the bad.

As far as the name calling, this is the kind of thing we can do without.


<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Answer this question for me; Do you all keep small 1/2 lb. bass?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Those that say that they just want meat, go ahead and shoot the does.

It seems to be the only excuse that small buck hunters use when they shoot a small buck. But they have no answers when you suggest that they should only take does.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

I still have seen no legitimate answers or arguements to these questions I posted earlier. Shooting does would give the same exact feeling or sense of excitment as shooting small bucks. So, why shoot the smaller bucks? What is your advantage or gain in it?? Is it the point of not going &quot;buckless&quot; for the year?? There is no reason for it.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> Some hunters are perfectly happy harvesting mediocre bucks while hoping some day that huge trophy buck (you know , that rare mystical creature , the one you cant see everytime you go out , due to TBM) will come by.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

I do not understand this quote. Why not improve your chances at that &quot;mystical creature&quot; by letting small bucks pass??? You yourself have just said that those that shoot mediocre buck for the most part, still hope for that super size wallhanger. So, why don't you impove the odds a little???


As far as point restrictions being wrong in certain states. That is a bunch a bull. A &quot;3 pointer on one side&quot; is far from a trophy buck, and is still at least 3 years from it. Take it from the states that are now in serious trouble of seeing a spike buck, let alone a buck at all. Point restrictions help. No one can argue the fact that even when the small bucks are extrememly rare, that something (like point restrictions) should be done to correct the situation.
And the arguement--&quot;Go ahead, you are not shooting my deer.&quot; Well, tell that to the neighbor that borders your property, when you see no more bucks at all. If the experienced hunters resort to shooting small bucks, this scenario is not far off.


One of the definitions of the word &quot;trophy&quot; is--
an animal skin, head, ect. displayed to show one's hunting prowess

Now, answer this question; Do those of you who are experienced hunters that have shot a small basket rack buck last year, this year, ect., go out the following year thinking, &quot;Boy, I hope I shoot a smaller buck than last year, next season!!&quot;

I doubt it.

Each year you wish or want for that buck that is larger than the last.
If you don't or don't care, give me a real, legitimate argument for not letting that small buck pass and taking only does.
Yes, it is true, we are all hunters. Part time hunters at best. So, if you do not care about the antlers, why not help out and look out for the neighbor who may want to take only bigger bucks? Why not improve relations with everyone around you?? We are all in this thing together, aren't we??