JRW - Thats not what I am trying to say - about my experiences being the "golden rule" anymore. I am trying to say the opposite - where I once would have jumped on the 1-12 guy , or for using a not as challenging piece of equipment or defending the compounds as a tougher weapon to use. I DO however think trad equipment like longbows and recurves are tougher weapons to use just as flintlocks are to inlines and slug guns are to high powered rifles. Thats not even debateable as an overall general statment - obviously because of the sheer numbers of people using theit respected choices.


" If you ever want to really debate me on this, I'd be happy to."

I'd very much like to do that - you present your argument and I'll reply as to how and why I don't agree. Heck I'd pay for the phone call or the beers to talk it over even. Understanding the "other" view whatever it may be is important.

" Just like before, you ignore anyone else's experiences that contradict your assertions, but hail those which do. For example...Paul Brunner's experience, my experience, and all of the wounding threads on this forum by hunters using compounds. "

Maybe I wasn't clear, but I DO in fact pay attention. I've sent several emails to Paul questioning broadheads, etc and I am very impressed with Pat and his honesty as well as his composure on that grizzly hunt. If anything I TRY to do that (sometimes I fail too). Did you read the above link "Things I've learned after 8 months" - man thats about EXACTLY me and everyone else I talk to. I've said it before and will again - I think you must be a "natural" in a way to take to a stickbow like you have (like i have heard you have). The rest of us struggle, as that post and the replies to it indicate. My last inquiring post on the LW was of whether a COI head semi-sharp was a better/worse choice than a Thunderhead. Remember ? That was a question, one I don't think you ever gave an opinion on and I wish you would have.

Time to let this one die ?

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<font color=red>&quot;Are you then saying that crossbows are the reason Ohio has less of a season/less bag limits BECAUSE of crossbows ?&quot;</font id=red>

Nooooo...what I was saying what that it was hypocritical for you to use something as a litmus test, while I am deemend &quot;selfish&quot; for insinuating the same. We're back to the difference between &quot;debate&quot; and &quot;hypocricy&quot;.

<font color=red>&quot;I called the Ohio Division of Wildlife at (614) 644-3925 and asked if, since 1976 when crossbows were made legal if they could tell me if archery season had been shortened or bag limits changed for archery hunters and they said no and no.&quot;</font id=red>

Bag limits haven't been changed since 1976 for bowhunters?

Well, in that same period of time, IL went from one deer per year to unlimited doe harvest and a two buck limit (with the exception of the EC 5 county zone). Wisconsin also went from a one deer per year state to multiple harvest, which is virtually unlimited in most zones.

You point again was?


<font color=red>&quot;Success rates show the two states with crossbows actually having lower success rates.&quot;</font id=red>

The success rates figures (at least for IL) show the number of hunters versus the number of animals killed. I don't know how they compute them in OH or AR. A success rate of 33.7% is inflated in IL, since it doesn't take into account multiple harvest...which is unlimited in IL...but not in AR & OH.

For example, I am ONE hunter, but killed THREE deer in IL last year. Two of my buddies killed none. By that way of computing things, the three os us killed three animals, and therefore our sucess rate was 100%, when in reality it was only 33.33%.

I've seen the break-down from 1999 or 2000 (I forget which) that shows how many hunters took a given number of deer. You'd be surprised to see that the &quot;top killer&quot; in the state killed 14 deer that year, with hundreds upon hundreds of others following closely behind.

Comparing hunters versus dead deer in IL, which is unlimited harvest, with limited harvest states like OH & AR is apples & grapefruits.

JRW

By the stats I meant that the bag limits hadn't been changed because of crossbows. Because theres more deer and larger deer kills every year I am sure the limits have changed - but thats nothing to do with crossbows is it ? You did imply that crossbows have an affect on deer seasons though or did I misread that insinuation ?

&quot; Comparing hunters versus dead deer in IL, which is unlimited harvest, with limited harvest states like OH & AR is apples & grapefruits.&quot;

I'll take your word that thats how the calculations are done - before Thanksgiving I am about all GOOGLED out as far as searches.

One more question and I'll take the answer and not add nor dispute it in any way (I promise) - Do you think if Illinois opened archery season up to crossbows that it would directly lead to a shorter season or lesser bag limit ?
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