Scent Control and Concealment.
 

Okay guys and gals, I want to tell a little story of my hunt this morning and raise a couple questions as well as some awareness. Seems in many threads concerning either camouflage or Scentloc/ScentBlocker clothing, Scent Elimination sprays, Gum o Flage or just basic human heigene we get those guys that say, I don't do anything and I can kill deer with my bow. Yes, that's prolly true but how many deer are they not seeing or blowing out of the area.

We all know we cannot eliminate human odors entirely from our bodies, we can however reduce them to an acceptable level. Also, IMO I feel open pattern camouflages like Predator, ASAT and the new Enigma are far more effective in breaking the human outline and hiding said person. Okay, on to my hunt.

I was set up in a oak near a bedding area, at the far end of the CRP field that contains my food plot seen here.



I didn't see any deer until 8:30 and I had deer around me until I decided to get down within eye sight of a maternal doe. Why, to test Enigma.

Anyhow, I had does and fawns circling the area most of the morning when I saw this mature doe move in behind me in the CRP field. She was coming straight at me, directly down wind. At 52 yards (rangefinder) she stops and proceeds to stare at the base of the tree I am in for exactly a half hour. She stood in one spot for an entire half an hour looking for me, trying to wind me. I couldn't believe it, I had my back to her and every now and again I'd turn to see her ears sticking up, swiveling, head up in the air, stretching her nose upward trying to wind me, staring a hole through the base of the tree I am in and standing there, just standing there all most completely still for over a half hour. Imagine.

Now, how could I get away with having a mature doe wind me yet not find me and not spook. It's easy, whitetails unless they live in an area void of humans will accept some level or human odor. If they didn't they'd be on the run all the time, literally especially in my area here. I know that I cannot eliminate my human odor although my wife tells me I always smell good, I'd bet that doe would disagree. I'm very fanatical about my scent when I go to my bow stands. My cloths are washed in hunters detergents, I am fanatic about my breath, teeth and mouth. I brush alot and use mouthwash and take extra care during the season. I shower before the hunt with hunters shampoo and soaps. I wear Scentloc Base Slayers with an overlay of ScentBlocker. My outter clothes are sprayed down with Scent Killer. I use unscented deoderants and I spray down again once I reach my stand. Why? Because of this doe. If I did very little I know she would have blown and took most of the deer in the area with her but she didn't, she stood there and was still there when I got down.

Yes, I got down. Enigma is a new pattern. All the research, field stories and users stories are all coming in positive and amazingly. When I purchased my suite I told the inventor that I will put it through the paces and report back. If it fails I will tell him, if I have success's I will tell him and so far, nothing but success. As it evolves I feel it's going to be one of the best. I digress,

I stood in the stand with this mature doe down wind of me, trying to find me, the source of what she thinks she smells. As I stood there I glassed her from time to time. I decided to tease her. As see stared at the base of my tree I decided to wave my arms like a bird. When I did this I was glassing her and watched as her eyes went from the base of my tree to me, okay she caught my movement. When I stopped moving she would again, look at the base of my tree wondering what is going on. It was obvious to me that when I stopped moving, I disappeared. I was glassing her and she'd look around and then look at the tree. I'd wave my arms again and she'd look up but when I stopped she'd either look down or look away. Now, that's all about an open pattern and I wonder if the store shelf patterns would work this well. I doubt it with the experience I've had in the past with those patterns. I'm convinced that open patterns like the Enigma camo that I was wearing as well as Predator and ASAT allow movements. Think about how nervous you get when a deer is in bow range and your afraid to stand or move or draw. When I was tired of messing with her I decided to get down. I lowered my bow, I lowered my back pack and dropped the rope. I turned expecting her to be gone, nope, stood there, same spot looking. I started climbing down, in doing so I had to circle the tree on her side, she stood there directly down wind. As my feet hit the ground she no longer could see me and as I snuck out I'm convinced she was still there, never spooking.

Moral of the story, I'm convinced after 25 years of bowhunting, wearing just about every conceivable pattern and maturing in scent elimination, that we make our own success's. Yes animals will be killed wearing anything and everything and yes they will be killed by people paying no mind to their scent but how many of you can honestly say that you could have a mature doe down wind, wave at her and climb down in her presence and never have her spook. She's not the first one for me, Last Saturday my friend Kurt and I sat side by side and had not one but 3 buck and 3 doe directly downwind without spooking and without being seen.

Just something to think about. You can kill deer but I wonder how many you don't see, spook or could have if you mind what you wear and do?

Okay, pick away.

RE: Scent Control and Concealment.
 

I have had similar things happen to me Rob, and I couldn't agree more with you. I do think taking the extra steps to control your scent and using an open pattern such as Enigma, ASAT or Predator will allow on to see more animals. Yes I'm sure we'll hear about those stories of how this guy just came from working on his car and had gas and oil on him and was only wearing blue jeans and a flannel shirt and short a 160 class buck all the while the buck was down wind of him. yes those things have happened, but I believe those are the exeption not the rule.

As far as effectiveness of an opencamo pattern, today I stalked within 15yards of a flock of turkeys today while wearing my Enigma Camo. helping to prove to me that this stuff works not only on deer but on turkeys too. The only reason the turkeys spooked off was that I stepped on a stick Or I believe I would have gotten much closer.[:@]

RE: Scent Control and Concealment.
 

Great post Rob. I also follow the hardcore scent control routine that you do. I have also had many experiences in my many, many years of bowhunting very similar to the one that you shared, and because of that, I am a die hard Predator camo hunter. I have used it for years, and so has my hunting buddy. Even after all these years, it still never ceases to amaze me they way it just blends into any terrain. I think that the best example was years ago when the viewfinders on video cameras were still black and white, we were in a tree with double stands filming our hunt. He was literally about 7 feet below me. When I was filming him ( as I said, he was in Predator, either Fall Brown or Fall Gray), I honestly could not see him in the view finder. The only way I could see him was when he would move. We have also watched the footage of us in hunting on a black and white TV, and again it was amazing how the Predator just disappears. Have someone wear Fall Brown and stand in a brown corn feild and see how hard it is to find them. I agree with you 100%, the open patterns such as Predator, ASAT, what I have seen of Enigma, etc are truly amazing. They definitely never blob up the way that the other brands do.
I will stick with my Predator, it has never failed me yet. I better, since I have enough stuff to open a Predator store!:D

RE: Scent Control and Concealment.
 

your clothing cost more than my bow!! if i had the cash for good gear id definently have it. i know its worth it and can make or break a hunt. could be the big one that catches your wind or crosses your trail etc. but till then i use what i got...and try to hunt the wind and keep my scent minimal. i dont think i can climb out of a tree and not get busted with a deer down wind...but didnt you say that deers eyes were swollen shut and pusy with infection and it had no nostrils?? ;) lol

good post rob. i know how many deer i dont see or bust me... they keep making a loud SHWOOOO noise..i think thats a deer?? i dont know i never seen a deer before...maybe one day. ill never kill a deer with a BDU jacket on and NON matching camo pants of a various pattern of whatever pair i pick that day lol. when i do dont worry...my goal is to fry the new server by telling a 50pg story full of 1001 pics. picks of the acorns it was eating..pics of the tree it was by. pics of each hair on the body..you guys will know..if its a buck its all over for sure...

RE: Scent Control and Concealment.
 

Thanks guys,

PA Hardwoods, you couldn't be more right and your stalk on the turkesy is similiar to mowbowhntrs, he walked up on turkeys to 15 yards wearing Enigma.

Proff, right on, good camo, good scent control.

mauser06, lol my young friend, it'll come together.

RE: Scent Control and Concealment.
 

I agree that there are so many more deer that we never see because of being sighted, smelled, and heard while going to our stands and after being in our stands and that scent control is the biggest factor in our success.

RE: Scent Control and Concealment.
 

I too am a fanatic about scent control. I cannot believe how some hunters go into the woods and think the deer will not bust them. They might get lucky once in a while. I went to a deer hunting banquet back in Sept. and I couldn't believe how many of the people there were smoking. These were supposed to be deer hunters. When I got home I took my clothes off in the garage. I wondered to myself how many deer they had spooked when they go hunting.

One of your points was about deer accepting some level of human odor. I totally agree. That is why even if scent lock doesn't completely eliminate odors it still has to help. If it only blocks 50% the deer will think I am twice as far away as I really am. For a bowhunter that can make a huge difference.

As far as the camo type, I have a few different patterns such as new mossy oak breakup, realtree hardwoods, skyline apparition and treetop. So far this year I have not been spotted by a deer. It seems sometimes you can get away with quite a bit and other times they see you if you aren't moving a muscle. I do like the more open patterns like Apparition andTreetoplater in the season, when the leaves are gone.

RE: Scent Control and Concealment.
 

Great post Rob,I also follow a strict scent control regiment, and consistantly see alot more deer than my buddies who are lax and only count on cover spray, hell I won't even dry off with a towel unless it is scent free and if I drive, I have scent free car clothing just for driving in, which is changed once I get out of my car. I agree with the open patterns being better also. I have used Natural gear quite a bit and had great success. I am very interested in Enigma, great looking pattern.

RE: Scent Control and Concealment.
 

You have to go the extra mile if you want to get the big bucks for your area. Scent control should be a top priority. I go as neutral as possible and just try and blend in with the outdoors. I think alot of cover scents will key a deer in on you, not because they smell human but because it is so strong and concentrated. As far as the Enigma and Robs test, it sure would seem that there is something to it. Having said that I have had deer within 5 feet of me on several occasions with inexpensive but scent free camo on.

RE: Scent Control and Concealment.
 

Marketers all over the country drool at statements like this. Paranoia will cause people to throw endless amounts of money at stuff trying to find a magic potion to solve all their problems.



What is "acceptable" Rob??.........and how can you ever know if you have obtained that? Is it the same for EVERY deer in EVERY situation??



Agreed..........I think we are definately seeing the future of camo evolving to open patterns.........or 3D.



I wouldn't be too thrilled if she nailed you from 52 yards away with your back to a tree between you two.........especially considering all the precautions you take.



Because you had a tree in between you and the deer. How do you know she "winded" you??...........Why would she be sniffing the air like crazy if she had already winded you?? Sounds like something else had her attention.


No way for you to know that.


Considering you were on the other side of the tree and all she could see was your arms.......if anything because the sun was in her face and you were in the shadows by the looks of your picture.......it's hard to say how much movement she could see.


Obviously there was something else going on here..........a mature doe that stands there while the noise and motion of a large man coming down a tree is going on 50 yards away can not be considered normal..........at least I hope not, because if it is then hunting will become a lot less fun. I like knowing I have to be careful with my movements......I like knowing I can't make a sound........I like knowing I have to be at my best to go undetected. If I can put on some suit and make all the noise and motion I want and still have deer walking around what is the challenge to that?? Just walk up and shoot 'em if that can't see you anymore.


Agreed..........I don't think camo, clothes, or sprays are what makes that success though. You are set up over a food plot with deer all around you because they are coming to eat your food...........I think you may be attributing your success to things that are actually minor contributions. I bet you would do just fine right where you are in GI-Joe camo and a bottle of scent eliminator spray.


Why is everyone so impressed with having deer downwind of them?? With basic scent precautions I have had deer up, down, sideways, and under me with the wind blowing in every direction. It's kind of a silly notion anyways because if you sit in your stand all day you will notice how many times the wind shifts or swirls throughout a hunt..........anyone who thinks the wind is a linear device is bonkers.


Paranoia...............without a doubt the absolute #1 driving force behind marketing deer hunting products. Preying on the lottery mentality of "What if"??

What do you say to someone who takes EVERY precaution that you take and has all the EXACT same stuff and doesn't see anymore deer or have anymore deer hang around downwind?? Does that prove your theories wrong??



Just playing devil's advocate for ya Rob............Trying to show there can be 10 different explanations to every situation. I have thought that I had it nailed many times myself........and then I get busted the next day in the same situation. I have just seen so much variability and dynamic behavior from deer to ever take one isolated case at anything more then face value. Enigma may be the greatest camo ever..........only time will tell. One story about one deer on one day is really meaningless to me. I have had deer standing in spitting distance from me when I was wearing a full blaze orange pumpkin suit and they never saw me...........does that mean it is the ideal camo??........of course not.


Thanks for the cool thread..........nice hunting area too ;) I am gonna check out Enigma after the Bills game.

RE: Scent Control and Concealment.
 

We'll never know what is "acceptable" but one thing we all do know if they get enough of a wiff, they blow and go. Acceptable level is the a level a deer can stand downwind and not turn tail and go. We'll only that level when we're in the situation. One thing is certain, if we do nothing, their will be no acceptable level. I can honestly say had I done nothing for my scent, she would have. I'm convinced of that from 25 years of previoius experiences.

Oh contrare, I am absolutley thrilled that my scent level was low enough that she didn't wind me prior to that. With her directly down wind, that's mightly close, had this been rifle season and the same circumstances, tag willing, dead deer. I know she hadn't spooked for other reasons, until I physically waved at her, she never once looked up towards me. You also assume the tree was between us, I never said that. The tree was on my left shoulder, she was directly behind me, not the tree.

Again, you assumed wrong. The tree again, off my left shoulder, (Or right shoulder when I faced her) I was totally exposed, skyline to the deer with slight branches sticking out behind me, shooting lanes cut.



If I slightly turned my head right in the picture, she would be there. Not behind the tree. She was obviously sniffing the wind because she did smell me, she did not see me up to that point.

25 years of bowhunting has taught me this, especially prior to any scent knowledge. I will especially say this prior to my Scentlok/Blocker purchases.

Again, your assumption, as you can see in the picture, my whole body was open to her minus a few leaves. Nothing of the trunk of the tree was hiding me. Sun would have been to her left, she was facing north towards me, no sun effect other than shadows within the tree limbs. But your right, with this camo it's hard to say how much movement she could see, that's what good camo is suppose to do for you.

Nothing else going on, simple, deer 50 yards away downwind, I got down. Mind you, the tree had branches but again, concealment is the key. I can't be certain obviously I can only wear one camo at a time but over the last 25 years I've worn prolly 15 brands of camo, at least 12 and it comes down to Predator, ASAT and Enigma so far until I have the opportunity to find something better. I'll take all the edge I can get, and I remember reading some of your equipment, you do too.

True that, I'm 200 yards from the food plot, it's an additive, so is the 400 acres of corn around the spot, the bedding area, the travel routes not to mention this is a natural funnel area. Those 25 years have put me in one of the 3 trees I have around this area. We make our own success, some of making mine is scent elimination and concealment.

I doubt it, but don't want to find out when my buck of a life time is downwind and in eyeshot.

When it comes to whitetails, especially mature animals, buck or doe I would suggest being paranoid. Anyone can kill button bucks and spikes and if that's all your after, ignore my entire thread. You don't need anything in here. Your quote above is an exception not the norm.

I knew I could count on you. ;)
This thread didn't come about from an isolated incident. It's been happening for quite a few years since I started wearing the open patterns. The scent control is actually the last 2 seasons since I purchased Scentlok and Scentblocker, work or not I've had more down wind stay since the purchase and I can't be certain but perhaps I'm a little more fantatical as well. Either way, success with deer down wind is increasing for me. If it were a single incident, I wouldn't have brought it up.

Thanks, I'm here to share as well as learn myself. And if the Bills winning or losing depending on your bet will get you into Enigma, go Bills or not. Rock on.

RE: Scent Control and Concealment.
 

[blockquote]quote:

Paranoia...............without a doubt the absolute #1 driving force behind marketing deer hunting products. Preying on the lottery mentality of "What if"??

What do you say to someone who takes EVERY precaution that you take and has all the EXACT same stuff and doesn't see anymore deer or have anymore deer hang around downwind?? Does that prove your theories wrong??[/blockquote]


When it comes to whitetails, especially mature animals, buck or doe I would suggest being paranoid. Anyone can kill button bucks and spikes and if that's all your after, ignore my entire thread. You don't need anything in here. Your quote above is an exception not the norm.


:D:DOh Snap! Sit down. ewww weeee.

RE: Scent Control and Concealment.
 

I ALSO TAKE EVERY SCENT FREE PRECAUTION. I HAVE ALSO PULLED OUT MY OLD WOODLAND PATTERN (MILITARY) CAMO AND SEEM TO GET SPOTTED LESS THAN WITH THE MOSSY OAK OR REALTREE PATTERNS. WOODLAND IS MORE OPEN THAN TODAYS POPULAR CAMO PATTERNS AND WORKS JUST AS WELL IF NOT BETTER (IT'S ALOT CHEAPER TOO). WOODLAND ISDARKER THAN THE ENIGMA AND ASAT PATTERNS WHICH IS WHY I'M ANXIOUS TO TRY THEM. THEY ARE PROBABLY THE NEXT REVOLUTION IN CAMO SINCE TREBARK SPARKED THE FIRST ONE.

RE: Scent Control and Concealment.
 

I never seen this "enigma"... im using andvatage, for the past 3 years now.. It works great this time of year, but when the leaves are all gone.I look like a huuuuuuge squerrels nest in the tree.. where couldI find this stuff.. info/pics, web site?I just looked threw my Bass Pro and Cabala's and musta passed it or its not there?

RE: Scent Control and Concealment.
 

http://www.enigmacamo.com/ or do a search here on HNI, there has been a lot of test photos and success stories as well as reviews. Some got lost with the new change however there should be some like this one here.
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1721183&mpage=1&key=Enigmaí¹’í¸˜

RE: Scent Control and Concealment.
 

Yeah, the first link worked... Iv over looked this camo. and i could see why. it looks so simple. thx rob

RE: Scent Control and Concealment.
 

I have never alerted a deer to my presence while in my stand, and I never will. I don't want any deer to know where me or my stand are.What does, fawns and bucks 2 1/2 and younger will often do is try to verify 2 senses. Whereas mature bucks only get just a touch of 1 sense and they're gone. The next time this doe comes past your stand she may avoid it and circle around it. That would be bad if a big boy was trailing her.[:-]

RE: Scent Control and Concealment.
 

Greg, I'm glad you brought that up and it's a very good point and I was in test mode regardless, I was in the same stand Saturday evening and I'm pretty sure it was the same doe, she came by at 20 yards, from the same area I left her in the am and never looked up, like I said, I never spooked her. One reason I say it's the same doe and I could be wrong they all look alike..lol but this doe had an unusual white patch behind her ears, brighter then most I remember. I still could be wrong but again, I never spooked her so she's not alert for the stand. I hope. ;) I'll try to get a picture of her when I see her again. It really caught my attention. I once had a "piebald" there, well I use that term loosely because it was a normal colored deer except the tail, snow white, up or down....

And your absolutely correct about mature bucks and one sense and they are gone so why do people not do everything they can to fool all their senses rather than concentrating on one and not the others. :eek:

RE: Scent Control and Concealment.
 

Good thread and it got me to thinking. I was out on opening day and had 3 mature does and two younger ones come to within 12 yards of my stand. They fed for about 10 mins. and then all of the sudden one of them raised her head up, sniffed the air and then shesnorted and stomped about 8 times and they never ran. I knew I was busted. I had taken all the scent control precautions I thought possible. But they never ran. She never saw me. I was wearing Mossy Oak new break up and only in a 12' stand. They stayed for about 5 more mins. Then they walked about 60 yards and turned around and came right back. This got me to thinking about camo, scents, movement and all. Yes I was busted by my scent, but not by my sight. So why did these deer never run? Every situation presents different possibilites. Had this been a 5 year old buck I would have probably never seen him. But we can only take all the precautions we deem necessary to have a successful hunt, which is different to everyone.

RE: Scent Control and Concealment.
 

In 25 years you never saw a deer when you weren't completely scent free? My dad started hunting 40+ years ago and the only time he has ever concealed his scent was when I sprayed him down the other day to help me hang a stand. He has killed more deer then I can count and seen 10 times more.

Really??.......I know you are just guessing, but since she watched you climb down and the noise or sight didn't spook her I would say your lack of odor isn't what kept her there.

Like Greg already said..........if a doe nailed you from 52 yards then those mature bucks you lust after will certainly do so much earlier then that.




You said she was behind you......and when you climbed down you had to "circle" the tree to her side. My assumptions are the result of your explanation ;)


I find it very interesting how people find what they are looking for. I am quite certain that in 25 years you have seen plenty of does closer to you then this one that didn't know you were there.........why is this one any more special or informative because now you wear a special suit?? Going by that logic anyone with a ssimilar story that was wearing nothing would prove you don't need any of this stuff then right??


You are 100% positive that nothing else could have possibly been going on??........no fawns she was keeping an eye on.....no foxes she could smell.....no other animals she was keeping an eye on........no other scents that possibly catching her nose.....food, animals, danger etc.



You would want a camo that makes you invisible and allows you to be lazy, loud and sloppy while hunting and still kill deer with ease?? Not me. I have my limits. If I put on a camo that allowed me to wave at deer as they walked by and they couldn't see me I would not only never wear it again I would petition my state officials to make it illegal. I want to kill a deer based on my skills as a hunter.........not store bought deception. You are right that I buy things to increase my chances of success........but if I don't do my part I am toast.........and that's the way I like it.


My only issue is I believe you put too much emphasis on the wrong ingredients. I think you are probably one heck of a hunter in a darn fine piece of land.........I bet you are better then you think and don't need as many gadgets to help you do better. Give yourself more credit.


Paranoia


Why?.......I think you should be confident in your skills instead of being paranoid. Do you have a ton of experience with being defeated by mature bucks face to face?? If not your paranoia is unfounded.


Pretty crappy statement coming from you Rob.........quite frankly I am VERY surprised to see it. I'll wait and give you a chance to clarify before I comment on it because I don't think it means what it reads like.......at least I hope not.


I don't gamble and the Bills sucked big time........at least the Sabres season started :) Losman is just never gonna be as good as they need a QB to be.

Steelers look good :eek:

RE: Scent Control and Concealment.
 

Interesting.........very interesting.

I'll preface my following comments by stating that I've already put in place the steps to purchase some of this camo. I want EVERY advantage available when I step into the whitetail woods. I think this pattern will work extremely well when the leaves are off our trees.

Rob...like you...I'm METICULOUS RE: scent control. I never go to stand without showering (same products you utilize).....I spray down.....try not to sweat...etc.../etc.../etc...

I posted the story when I shot my buck, last Saturday. I had TWENTY-PLUS deer inside 30 yds....DIRECTLY down wind of me........

I'm no matheme........well.....I'm not real good with numbers......but that's a LOT of ears, eyes and noses to bust your friendly neighborhood tree hanger. I had my release on my bowstring....and my boy stared a hole through me at 20 yds......for 40 seconds or more. Nice game of stare down....that's hard to play with you leg shaking uncontrollably.

I too wonder why ANYONE would not want to tke EVERY advantage they could to help in our quest to get close....close...closer to these magnificent animals. I'll say my control of my SCENT was my number one ally, last Saturday. No. 02 was the fact that the area had received NO PRESSURE for over a year or more. No. 03 would be me remaining motionless. No. 04 would be the fact that they came from DIRECTLY behind me.....and probably didn't see even the slightest of movements I'd surely made prior to their arrival. That many deer don't walk up, every day.......and for a reason. No. 05 would be my camo pattern (In my admittedly new state of being a bowhunter's opinion). I had on at LEAST (counting everything) SIX different patterns.

Doesn't mean I don't think this stuff works......this was just ONE experience of mine.

Jeff

RE: Scent Control and Concealment.
 

I do not believe a deer ever gets downwind from you Atlas, unless it has an arrow stuck or blown threw it!!! You have to let one walk by you for that to happen, LOL We all know you shoot everything!!

Good post rob, I had little 7 point in front of me 47 mins Friday night, he looked up a couple times(I had a squirrel in my tree also) and eye balled me. I wear realtree, and have had great success, but I may try an open pattern. I wish ScentLok would make a suit with an open pattern.

The buck finally walked away, he looked dazed and confused!!

RE: Scent Control and Concealment.
 

Considering the sensory organ that we're up against you're pissing away perfectly good money on all of that crap , the best you can hope for is that they think you're farther away than you really are , and that's probably just wishful thinking . Of the two I'd place camo and playing the wind miles ahead of any silly attempts to fool a whitetail's noise .

RE: Scent Control and Concealment.
 

Atlas - you have a way of not only ruining threads but making most of us sick to our stomachs! [:'(]

Rob - great story and I couldn't agree with you more.

RE: Scent Control and Concealment.
 

Mauser..I feel ya brotha..but don't feel your just limited to the high dollar camo. There are others who make very good openpatterns for those of us that can't throw a car-payment at hunting clothes. Check out Gods Country Camo http://www.godscountrycamouflage.com/

Works for me.. from head to toe for less than a pair of pants from some of the other guys. Plus the service and delivery is top notch.

RE: Scent Control and Concealment.
 

Your right, You(atlasman) could read into that too much, in that statement (you) was a generalization to anyone reading the thread, in the place of you, I've often used, "one" "someone" "anyone" so that a person doesn't think they are being singled out such as in this case. I especially can see it taken in the wrong context when followed by the quote from Motown.

This is how it should have read.

Anyone can kill button bucks and spikes and if that's all someone is after, ignore my entire thread. A person doesn't need anything in here to do so.

I hope that clearifies that.

As for the rest, we can dance with this all day, all season. I'll leave it for what it is, a suggestion.

RE: Scent Control and Concealment.
 

How do I "play" the wind, is it a game, do I need an instrument?

I will never understand the above statement.
Sunday Morning the wind was swirling like mad. I felt it out north, south, east, and west. It would blow out of the south for about 15 min, and then switch again. Like you I try tohunt with the wind in my face, but wind is unpredictable. Until they develop a transporter so I can beam myself to another location, I will continue to use and buy products I DEEM as useful

RE: Scent Control and Concealment.
 

I really liked your experiment but I believe your scent was partially masked not by your carbon suit but by your scent control rituals. I follow those same rituals and like you have never been winded. I've spooked them with sound but never have been scented. That I know of.

For those of you that think Atlasman ruins posts. I disagree. He is attempting to make you guys back your statements with fact. Generalizations and association are not scientifice proof. Anyone who thinks they can attribute success to one thing or product is out of their minds.

Tom

RE: Scent Control and Concealment.
 

Its all about wind. Dont matter how much you try to kill your sent, if the wind is wrong, you will get busted. Got to remember thermals. You can have deer right infront of you and under you with the wind at your back, if you have a thermal up draft, your scent is being carried over the deer, but it is still landing further down the line. You can not kill human odder, you can reduce it, but not to the point a deer can detect it.

RE: Scent Control and Concealment.
 

Stat.......I'll sign on to the list that this statement describes. ESPECIALLY that last part.....lol.

RE: Scent Control and Concealment.
 

Atlas has proved serveral things with his post[8D]

You are correct there is no magic product, but system we all develop that make us succesful. What works for me, may not work for you.

RE: Scent Control and Concealment.
 

Great post Rob, sorry I've been out of the looptesting the Enigmaany/everywhere I can.

Last night I sat on the groundat the edge of a wheatfield bordered by persimmon trees. I was sitting on my stool and a doe and a yearling came into the field. The deer were in the field for 30 minutes within 60 yards walking directly to me. My buddy put out some "Buck Jam" that actually worked against me, I had to sit on the otherside of this smal field due to wind direction. The doe got to 50 yards and turned away to go lick the buck jam. The yearling continued to walk directly me at me until she was at 20 yards. I was hoping that momma would follow the baby but it worked the opposite and I never had a shot.

RE: Scent Control and Concealment.
 

Picking apart every single sentence in a post does not make a scientific point either - it only shows someone childish nature. Rob has made several remarks about "25 years of observations." His comments also ONLY stated, "I believe" and not "it is a fact that..."

Anyone can argueagainst someone's point, it takes no talent. Few can put ideas in concise order to derive a unified thought, that talent speaks for itself.

RE: Scent Control and Concealment.
 

In some regards you have a point but I've read a lot of posts around here were people attribute their success so blindly to a product that completely contradicts proven science. I'm not just talking about carbon suits.

What we really need is a consumer reports dedicated solely to hunting!!!

Tom

RE: Scent Control and Concealment.
 

Great. let's start with the Whisker Biscuit!!

Jeff

RE: Scent Control and Concealment.
 

My consumer report is on my wall, any questions?

RE: Scent Control and Concealment.
 

Rob, I couldn't agree more. Obviously we spook deer that we don't even realize are there, but I think if we take all of the precautions we can it's at least limited. It took me years of aggravation, not seeing many deer, and certainly not killing any deer, to realize it must be something I am doing, or NOT doing.

Since then I've practiced solid scent control, use the wind to my advantage, and wear good camo, like Enigma. Isn't it interesting that "all of a sudden" I'm seeing MANY more deer than I ever have and I even manage to take one home with me once in a while. Certainly I'm running deer off that I never see, but my success rate has climbed 200%.

Speaking of Enigma, stalked another flock of turkey this past weekend. I was never offered a shot, but I snuck to within 20 yards of them in the woods. I know squirrels aren't the brightest bulbs on the tree, and they are pretty easy to fool, but there is something to this Enigma pattern. Ya'll know how squirrels do. They look at you, stare, and obviously see something out of place. Now, what I've noticed w/ Enigma is that they are briefly glancing in my direction, then right back to whatever they are doing. I'm not sure how to describe it, but they act differently to Enigma than other patterns I've worn. My confidence keeps building every time I wear it. There is something scientific going on w/ this pattern, I just can't put a finger on it. It truely works.

RE: Scent Control and Concealment.
 

Yeah, like how do you know you just didn't get lucky?

Tom

RE: Scent Control and Concealment.
 

I guess I got lucky twice last year, LOL

The other previous one's were all luck also, you got me LOL

RE: Scent Control and Concealment.
 

Folks have won the lottery twice!

I'm sure you're a great hunter, you're here aren't you, but I bet it has more to do with you skills and less to do with your equipment (no pun intended).

Tom