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ORIGINAL: HAZCON7

I think you guys hit the heart of this subject, which is that a consistently successful hunter will utilize the tools, techniques, and experiences he or she has available to their full potential. For some, that consistent success could equal a freezer full of meat, and for others, a room full of wall hangers.

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ORIGINAL: HAZCON7

Atlas - you have a way of not only ruining threads but making most of us sick to our stomachs! [:'(]

Rob - great story and I couldn't agree with you more.

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ORIGINAL: Rob/PA Bowyer

Your right, You(atlasman) could read into that too much, in that statement (you) was a generalization to anyone reading the thread, in the place of you, I've often used, "one" "someone" "anyone" so that a person doesn't think they are being singled out such as in this case. I especially can see it taken in the wrong context when followed by the quote from Motown.

This is how it should have read.

Anyone can kill button bucks and spikes and if that's all someone is after, ignore my entire thread. A person doesn't need anything in here to do so.

I hope that clearifies that.

As for the rest, we can dance with this all day, all season. I'll leave it for what it is, a suggestion.

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ORIGINAL: statjunk

For those of you that think Atlasman ruins posts. I disagree. He is attempting to make you guys back your statements with fact. Generalizations and association are not scientifice proof. Anyone who thinks they can attribute success to one thing or product is out of their minds.

Tom

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ORIGINAL: HAZCON7

Picking apart

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ORIGINAL: ghemry

Now I am only 5'8'' 180, now Motown is 6'2'' 230, if you two meet up I think you are going to find out what a ghetto beating is, but you are safe firing away behind your computer screen.

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ORIGINAL: atlasman

WOW.........Nice to see someone else out there actually put some intelligent thought into what is being said. BRAVO.

A lot of people around here don't like facts.........because they don't tell the story they want to hear. They don't want to hear about the 9,999 times the bottle of "Hot Doe" didn't work.......they fixate on the 1 time someine says it "brought him in on a string." They don't want to hear about the science of carbon.........they just want to read the label with the picture of a huge buck on it and believe their household dryer can defy the laws of physics. They don't want to believe that the secret to killing deer can't bought in a store. They don't want to hear that being perfectly still and quiet are more important then the tag on your jacket. They could hear 10,000 stories talking about deer walking right up to people and not seeing, smelling, or hearing them and they won't be interested AT ALL.........UNLESS it involves a magic product that they can buy to make themselves invisible too!! They don't want to accept the fact that the wind does not blow in a linear fashion all day every day and forget temperature changes and how scent will rise with warming air etc.......and why is it that everyone assumes that your scent travels DOWN from 20 feet up a tree??.......the safest place to NOT be winded by a deer is probably right under your stand since the wind will surely be carrying your scent in some direction other then straight down 20 feet of tree bark.........I mean who ever heard of the wind blowing down??.......yet people marvel at deer right under their stand Last year everyone raved about ASAT........this year it's ENIGMA............stay here long enough and you will realize that the flavors of the month rarely last very long around here. After all, this is the place that had an overwhelming amount of guys touting the Liberty, Justice, Icon, and LX as the greatest bows on the planet.............3 months later if you mentioned those bows all you heard was crickets.

I love hearing all the stuff too............I just keep them in proper perspective.

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ORIGINAL: statjunk

I'm not backing one person or another but this was just moronic!

Oh btw, I'm 5'9" 215lbs just incase you wanted to send me some of your extra hunting gear. Grow up!

Atlas you too.

Tom

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ORIGINAL: HAZCON7

Atlas, you are trying to provoke me into another one of your endless arguments - I'm not taking the bait.

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ORIGINAL: ghemry

Now I am only 5'8'' 180, now Motown is 6'2'' 230, if you two meet up I think you are going to find out what a ghetto beating is, but you are safe firing away behind your computer screen.

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ORIGINAL: GR8atta2d

Geez the guy made a post about scent control..How do we get to verbal abuse and than childish threats, of beatings??

I don't get those that come on here looking for an argument for arguments sake. Opinions and other views are always welcome and refreshing but for someone to bash anotherguy 1 on 1 and threaten him.. :eek:

You guys can't take Atlas's view and he owns you..he gets you right where he wants you.You bragthat you know your quarry and how he lives,eats and breathes, so does Atlas...and you my friend havehis tag in your ear!

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As far as Motown goes...........I wouldn't be too concerned with the comments of guy named honkey who uses ghetto slang in a hunting forum........hard to take anyone like that seriously.

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Wrong again........I think your inability to understand what is being written is clouding your judgement. Makes me wonder if you even read the thread.

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ORIGINAL: HAZCON7

You keep insinuating a lack of intelligence on my part (as well as others)and it is very offensive. That is the part that gets people so angry with you.

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You keep whining about facts but provide NONE - you only insult and belittle. You're comments are off topic and you keep recycling the same old arguments about "doe pee" and "bows" which were not even mentioned in the original thread.

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Currently I'm at work where I make lasers by personally manipulating atoms in specific perfect crystal lattices to alter the electronic relationships between layers in order to achieve aprecisely tuned wavelength of amplified light. One of my colleagues won a Nobel Prize for inventing the LED and with his latest invention I made the worlds first LET, a light emitting transistor.

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So maybe you should watch who you imply is unintelligent.

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Now go back to illegally feeding the button bucks and does in your back yard and wait for the nice man with the badge to come collect you.

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Now, how could I get away with having a mature doe wind me yet not find me and not spook. It's easy, whitetails unless they live in an area void of humans will accept some level or human odor.

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Then you aren't reading the threads like you say.........all I give are the facts.........just because people (you) don't like what those facts say is not my problem

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob/PA Bowyer

Yes, that's prolly true but how many deer are they not seeing or blowing out of the area.


Marketers all over the country drool at statements like this. Non Fact Paranoia will cause people to throw endless amounts of money at stuff trying to find a magic potion to solve all their problems. Non Fact - opinion



quote:

We all know we cannot eliminate human odors entirely from our bodies, we can however reduce them to an acceptable level.


What is "acceptable" Rob??.........and how can you ever know if you have obtained that? Is it the same for EVERY deer in EVERY situation?? Non Fact - questions




quote:

Also, IMO I feel open pattern camouflages like Predator, ASAT and the new Enigma are far more effective in breaking the human outline and hiding said person. Okay, on to my hunt.


Agreed..........I think we are definately seeing the future of camo evolving to open patterns.........or 3D. Non Fact - opinion



quote:

She was coming straight at me, directly down wind. At 52 yards (rangefinder) she stops and proceeds to stare at the base of the tree I am in for exactly a half hour. She stood in one spot for an entire half an hour looking for me, trying to wind me. I couldn't believe it, I had my back to her and every now and again I'd turn to see her ears sticking up, swiveling, head up in the air, stretching her nose upward trying to wind me, staring a hole through the base of the tree I am in and standing there, just standing there all most completely still for over a half hour. Imagine.



I wouldn't be too thrilled if she nailed you from 52 yards away with your back to a tree between you two.........especially considering all the precautions you take. Non Fact - opinion




quote:

Now, how could I get away with having a mature doe wind me yet not find me and not spook.


Because you had a tree in between you and the deer. How do you know she "winded" you??...........Why would she be sniffing the air like crazy if she had already winded you?? Sounds like something else had her attention. Non Fact - opinion



quote:

If I did very little I know she would have blown and took most of the deer in the area with her


No way for you to know that. Fact



quote:

I decided to tease her. As see stared at the base of my tree I decided to wave my arms like a bird. When I did this I was glassing her and watched as her eyes went from the base of my tree to me, okay she caught my movement. When I stopped moving she would again, look at the base of my tree wondering what is going on. It was obvious to me that when I stopped moving, I disappeared. I was glassing her and she'd look around and then look at the tree. I'd wave my arms again and she'd look up but when I stopped she'd either look down or look away. Now, that's all about an open pattern and I wonder if the store shelf patterns would work this well. I doubt it with the experience I've had in the past with those patterns. I'm convinced that open patterns like the Enigma camo that I was wearing as well as Predator and ASAT allow movements.


Considering you were on the other side of the tree and all she could see was your arms.......if anything because the sun was in her face and you were in the shadows by the looks of your picture.......it's hard to say how much movement she could see. Non Fact - conjecture



quote:

When I was tired of messing with her I decided to get down. I lowered my bow, I lowered my back pack and dropped the rope. I turned expecting her to be gone, nope, stood there, same spot looking. I started climbing down, in doing so I had to circle the tree on her side, she stood there directly down wind. As my feet hit the ground she no longer could see me and as I snuck out I'm convinced she was still there, never spooking.


Obviously there was something else going on here..........a mature doe that stands there while the noise and motion of a large man coming down a tree is going on 50 yards away can not be considered normal..........at least I hope not, because if it is then hunting will become a lot less fun. I like knowing I have to be careful with my movements......I like knowing I can't make a sound........I like knowing I have to be at my best to go undetected. If I can put on some suit and make all the noise and motion I want and still have deer walking around what is the challenge to that?? Just walk up and shoot 'em if that can't see you anymore. Non Fact



quote:

Moral of the story, I'm convinced after 25 years of bowhunting, wearing just about every conceivable pattern and maturing in scent elimination, that we make our own success's.


Agreed..........I don't think camo, clothes, or sprays are what makes that success though. Non Fact - opinion
You are set up over a food plot with deer all around you because they are coming to eat your food...........I think you may be attributing your success to things that are actually minor contributions.Non Fact - opinion
I bet you would do just fine right where you are in GI-Joe camo and a bottle of scent eliminator spray. Non Fact - opinion



quote:

Yes animals will be killed wearing anything and everything and yes they will be killed by people paying no mind to their scent but how many of you can honestly say that you could have a mature doe down wind, wave at her and climb down in her presence and never have her spook. She's not the first one for me, Last Saturday my friend Kurt and I sat side by side and had not one but 3 buck and 3 doe directly downwind without spooking and without being seen.


Why is everyone so impressed with having deer downwind of them?? With basic scent precautions I have had deer up, down, sideways, and under me with the wind blowing in every direction. buttons ;)
It's kind of a silly notion anyways because if you sit in your stand all day you will notice how many times the wind shifts or swirls throughout a hunt..........anyone who thinks the wind is a linear device is bonkers.


quote:

Just something to think about. You can kill deer but I wonder how many you don't see, spook or could have if you mind what you wear and do?


Paranoia...............without a doubt the absolute #1 driving force behind marketing deer hunting products. Preying on the lottery mentality of "What if"?? Non Fact - opinion


What do you say to someone who takes EVERY precaution that you take and has all the EXACT same stuff and doesn't see anymore deer or have anymore deer hang around downwind?? Does that prove your theories wrong?? Non Fact



quote:

Okay, pick away.



Just playing devil's advocate for ya Rob............Trying to show there can be 10 different explanations to every situation. I have thought that I had it nailed many times myself........and then I get busted the next day in the same situation. I have just seen so much variability and dynamic behavior from deer to ever take one isolated case at anything more then face value. Enigma may be the greatest camo ever..........only time will tell. One story about one deer on one day is really meaningless to me. I have had deer standing in spitting distance from me when I was wearing a full blaze orange pumpkin suit and they never saw me...........does that mean it is the ideal camo??........of course not.


Thanks for the cool thread..........nice hunting area too I am gonna check out Enigma after the Bills game.

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Just going by what I see

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if you are still not bright enough to figure it out then ask someone else to help - nobody is forcing you to post here

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