|
RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
ORIGINAL: SaskBushMan I think everyone needs to go and re-read the original post. No where does atlasman say anything against people who use these gadgets What I get out of it is look around the board there are so many post about fenced hunts and things like that when the same person who is complaining is the same guy who starts a thread about baiting or what to plant in their food plot(not that there is anything wrong with that if its legal hav at it who cares what others believe) but how is that considered fair chase when having a food plot or a feeder is almost better than a fence because you no exactly where the deer will be and know they will be there. As far as what atlasman says about gear my take on it is that having a fast bow is a big advantage over say a traditional bow for example IMO anyone could pick up a compound and be able to take a deer within a few days(same with high powered rifle) ask any traditional shooter if that is possible with a recurve or long bow I bet I know what they would tell you(not saying that your not a real hunter unless you use as primative tool there is because that is just not true). As far as trail cams, how is that fair are they once again you know exactly what is there and when it is going to be there. No where does atlasman condem(sp?) anyone for using them as he has stated everytime he has defended his post. Maybe I am reading his post wrong but this is what I get out of it. Good luck and stay safe this hunting season. Give that man a cigar!!!! WOW...........what a refreshing breeze of logic and reasoning from someone who actually took the time to read the thread and think about what it said. |
RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
I have it.
Fair Chase=bare handed OR give your game a warning shot![8D] |
RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
All:
He is right - there is no fair chase. We are humans with a higher intelligence and they are "dumb" animals (in comparison to us). This is not fair. If youuse a weapon and the deer does not - this is not fair. If you drive to get to the area where you hunt, it is not fair. If you use your knowledge of the rut to see more deer, it is not fair. If you use your knowledge regarding where and when deer are more prone to be on the move, it is not fair. Every new item we buy to improve our chances makes it a little more unfair. Man against man and deer against deer is the only fair chase (each having the same access to their own God-granted capability set). He is in the same boat that we are in, although I believe he feels the degree to whichis different. Joking aside from above, I do believe I understand his point. It does appear that with advanced technology, things may get out of control - very quickly. Let all agree not to mention "fair chase" - it is a stupid term (see above)and get back to calling it hunting. |
RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
ORIGINAL: atlasman ORIGINAL: Diesel77 Hope you have a great season Atlas hunting the way you like doing it bud. I hunt the same as you do. Glad to hear you hunt like me.I would think most honest ethicalhunters do as well, according my own personal view of course. |
RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
ORIGINAL: Fat Naked Guy I would think most honest ethicalhunters do as well |
RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
WOW!!!!!
|
RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
the way some deer are grown and killed today harvest actually fits better |
RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
I agree that "fair chase" is in the eye of the bow holder.......
But.... If they legalize duct-taping poison-tipped arrows to the front of your ATV and letting you chase them down through baited fields......I won't sneer at you for doing so. (And I hope I catch you on my game cam) jeff |
RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
I hunt 100% legal and 100%fair chase. Its not my fault if they come out to the 7 acres of corn I planted to feed my beef.
|
RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
I'm hunting with the pearly whites this year. I'll send you the dental bill Atlasman!
Tom |
RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
Atlas, fairchase started long before a lot of folks on here started shooting bows. It's been a term used to describe a precieved honorable, ethical killing.[8D] I don't know if Pope and Young did it, but they used it.
|
RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
Atlas I read your post for a laugh, but you just seem mad about something. Who really cares how others hunt or what they call it.I'm not mad at all..........just think it is a stupid rallying cry. Well good I feel the same way about some threads[8D] If you have an issue with fair chase call Boone & Crockett Why? Have you been scounting those button bucks this year? I could go on a rant on how shooting fawns is not hunting, but I could careless what you shoot. Besides those little burgers are tasty!! |
RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
Boy O' Boy--what's to come next?
Guess we'll also have to change the sport from HUNTING--to KILLING. This is a sure way to shoot ourselves in our foot--not that individual opinions aren't worthwhile, but they can sometimes turn us in the wrong direction. It seems to me that Atlas knows what "FAIR" chaseISN'T--yet has doubts at to what fair chase IS. Nevertheless--for the record--the word FAIR is given as---just, equitable, in accordance with the rules. CHASE --is hurry in pursuit, run after, pursue, also identifies an UNENCLOSED HUNTING-LAND. |
RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
For the first time in 5 yrs we agree:D:D
The Corn and the Pictures and the corn and the pictures and the corn..............................LOL............ |
RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
ATLASquote..... I'm not accusing anyone of anything............I have no problem with the way anyone hunts.......you know that. I hunt the same way.......I just don't think I would go around advertising it as "fair chase" just because there is no chain link fence in view. Atlas, for what it is worth, you make sense to me in some of the points you make. I just wish you would have begun with the above quote from yourself... to maybe ease into this subject without making some other hunters feel under attack. I have respect forall ethical hunters who share this sport I love. For example, did you ever try to explain a hunting scenario to a non hunter and feel like that person just could not understand your own thrill, or excitement.... just because they have never experienced it? We all have a common trhead running through us that makes us hunters. Although I agree with some of what you originally wrote, I just wish it would not have felt like such an attack to some of the others who partake in the more advanced technology items. Myself, I hunt public land, no rangefinder, no food plot or corn on the ground, and no trail cam. Just my bow & climber. To each their own. Good luck to you all. DW |
RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
As far as trail cams, how is that fair are they once again you know exactly what is there and when it is going to be there. |
RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
ORIGINAL: James Vee As far as trail cams, how is that fair are they once again you know exactly what is there and when it is going to be there. |
RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
Time for my 2 cents. I love technology just as much as the next guy, maybe more. However, I don't own a trail cam, feeder, range finder, or binoculars (besides the ones that came free w/ a Tasco scope once[8D]). I do own abow that is capableof shooting over 300 FPS and also a climbing treestand. Irrevalant to your point, I understand.
I do agree with you about the "fair chase" as we like to call it. Its never really been fair for a deer or any other animal if you think about. We have always outwitted (attempted to at least) animals since the beginning of time. I hunt because my father introduced me to the sport (and yes, its a sport) and because I enjoy to do so. Hunting will never be fair chase and I don't believe it ever has been.:) Ducky out... |
RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
Atlas... man... I gotta hand it to ya, nobody starts a barn-burner like you do.... I thought I was never gonna reach the end of this one.....
If you really want to take this down to it's roots (man vs. beast w/ no tools), is it fair of a lioness to use her claws and jaws to take down a wildebeast? or cheetah to run down it's prey with it's 60mph speeds? Every beast on earth uses it's God-given tools for it's survival and it's hunting(for predators). We have no sharp teeth(accept those guys on TV with the grinded down fangs... ) no claws(accept the women with the 3 inch long fingernails), and when compared to animals we have no speed.Our intellect is the only significant tool we have to be on anywhere near a level playing field with these critters. Our ability to learn, pattern, and track these animals is no different from our abibility to apply our intellect to tools to kill these animals. Short answer, as long as I'm getting skunked while hunting over a feeder, I see no reason to accept it as not being fair-chase. All that said I understand that our methods are not the subject of arguement, but the terms used to describe them... How bout this, call it what ever you want. Fair or unfair, the deer still taste delicious, and I will continue to eat them. Just like any other predator. |
RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
I agree that the term Fair Chase is used very loosely. Many of the tactics and gadgets we use add to the already unfair advantage we have. I am just glad the deer can't carry and fire a weapon [:-].
I think it is laughable when hunters use all of this that and the other and kill a big ole buck and suddenly they are the king of the woods:eek:. The great white hunter huh? Then they use what they have killed (x number of P/Y Bucks for example) tovalidate there arguments and knowledgearguments all over this website. Hunting is not fair for the deer. The deer have no idea what fair is. All they know is eat, breed, fight sleep, and survive. All of the gadgets we buy and use are designed to make it easier to KILL a deer. It's almost impossible to guage how "skilled" a hunter actually is anymore. Fair Chase hunting is really an oxymoron when you think about it. |
RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
Nope.............just the endless parade of trail cam photos brought the thought into my head. Second point if we have such a great advantage why is the success rate 30%(on average) for bowhunters? Looks like the deer win most of the time. No matter how many gadets we have we can not predict what a whitetail is going to do. |
RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
WHEW! What a read!
After ten pages I think most finally caught what you were trying to say. I agree with you and others, it's all just a little "unfair", but that's that way it has to be. Unless we do what rybohunter said and "chasem down and snap their necks". Wait! That's not fair for us, because the deer can run faster than us and they can smell us a whole lot better than we can smell them. I'll do my best not to use the term "fair chase" ever again. Let's all go out and HUNT and KILL legally. Most of all let's all have fun. Good luck to all!!!! |
RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
Blah Blah Blah! You guys are beating a dead horse. All you are doing is fueling anti's arsenal by arguing with each other about who is wrong or right. I understand the original point that Fair Chase is used in a way that you don't agree with, but who cares?
Stop painting negative images of legal, ethical hunters. If you don't think it is fair...fine, don't use those tactics. But don't go on and on in a silly debate simply to debate. These type of threads give people bad impressions of legal, ethical hunters. Let me guess, now you'll want to debate ethical. Simply go out and stay legal and take the animal down as quickly and humanly as you can. Stop stirring the pot, you make us all look bad. |
RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
WOW, here's a can of beans I missed.. What we should resort to a club like the cavemen?? Than we'd be unethical and inhumane.
Should we hunt with only a camera..But then a telephoto lens would be cheating?? I get the drift yes..even bowhunting is moving ahead with technology, so for your own piece of mindgo traditional and don't use the new state of the art stuff and accessories. I know you're not bashing current methods so to speak. But i'll echo what others have said. If your game laws are followed then by rule it is fair chase. Fair as defined by, : conforming with the established rules : ALLOWED |
RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
After thinking about this topic overnight - I've come to the realization that Atlas - and some others (myself included)- are concentrating on the word "Fair" but that is not the issue. The term is "Fair Chase." One word in this term cannot be removed from the other and mean anything near the intent of the term.
Obviously it isn't "Fair" for the deer - they die in the end. We have imposed laws to keep it from "Unfair Chase," for example no hunting at night with spotlights. But further, we self impose morals and ethics to make ourselves feel better about the hunt, whether that be feeling more individually rewarded or otherwise. And since by definition a self imposition is indivual, it can not be generalized. What Atlas, or anyone else, sees as fair chase is correct as long as it lies within the confines of law and personal ethics/morals. Just don't confuse FAIR for Fair Chase - these are 2 very different concepts. |
RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
My gosh!
Where did atlas state even once, anything about any type of hunting any of us do? Everyone on here keeps rambling about this and that. You guys are the ones trying to flame. Atlas simply stated that the term "fair chase" is often misinterpreted and misused. He didnt state and conditions or terms that define fair chase, nor did he pick out any individual person to accuse of non fair chase hunting. Some people need to pay more attention when they read. I read the original post and whatI got from it was that the term is misused and should be done away with. What is fair chase?, everyone will have a different answer and I say if it's legal, it's hunting. Fair chase or not. I don't know you atlas, but I'm 100% behind you on this and anyone who flamed you needs to grow up. Just my .02 cents. |
RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
ORIGINAL: HAZCON7 After thinking about this topic overnight - I've come to the realization that Atlas - and some others (myself included)- are concentrating on the word "Fair" but that is not the issue. The term is "Fair Chase." One word in this term cannot be removed from the other and mean anything near the intent of the term. Obviously it isn't "Fair" for the deer - they die in the end. We have imposed laws to keep it from "Unfair Chase," for example no hunting at night with spotlights. But further, we self impose morals and ethics to make ourselves feel better about the hunt, whether that be feeling more individually rewarded or otherwise. And since by definition a self imposition is indivual, it can not be generalized. What Atlas, or anyone else, sees as fair chase is correct as long as it lies within the confines of law and personal ethics/morals. Just don't confuse FAIR for Fair Chase - these are 2 very different concepts. Anthony T. While I agree with you and Atlas, but having read most of his threads Atlas tend to like to preach to the rest of us(IMO). Tends to rub folks the wrong way. Atlas and I agree on a lot of things, but Atlas comes across the wrong way to me. I truly believe Atlas thinks his way of hunting is the only way. Because I own a farm andpractice QDM I am not"true Hunter" nor do I understand hunting true nature is his view. Atlas made a great point, but who cares? Is Atlas waking up every night when a Game Camera goes off here in the USA? I think not, does he nearly faint when he thinks of me hunting by my food plot? I think not, Atlas just needs to make his points with out all the babble. I can tell if Atlas has been in a thread just by scrolling thru it. Look for a thread with 6 and some one disputing what was just said. I also love to read his threads because I also love a good debate. Atlas is very good at picking apart a thread. He keeps me on my Toe's. If you want a good read go thru some of Atlas threads, you will learn a lot. |
RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
Atlasman,
You COULD argue that "fair" is only when we hunt bare handed and naked. This way the deer would be as they are in nature and we would be as we were therby givingneither a technological advantage. Each hunter applies the term "fair" differently. It may not mean the same from one hunter to the other. As far as how a hunter applies it and as long as it's within the laws set up within that state that is certainly up to each individual hunter to decide what they consider fair. There is no perfect answer to what is "fair chase" because it is not a term that has a technical definition in the hunting world. It is a term however used by hunters to describe a particular type of hunt that in their opinion is fair. And that's all it is. An opinion |
RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
Atlas loves to shoot those button bucks so how much does he really care about fair chase. Routinely shooting the dumbest animal in the woods speaks for itself. I had a button buck follow me through the woods in bow season like a little lost puppy would.
Baaa..Baaaaaa.....are you my mommy? Just another troll thread. |
RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
Atlas loves to shoot those button bucks so how much does he really care about fair chase. Routinely shooting the dumbest animal in the woods speaks for itself. I had a button buck follow me through the woods in bow season like a little lost puppy would. Baaa..Baaaaaa.....are you my mommy? Just another troll thread. |
RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
ORIGINAL: HuntinGUS Atlas loves to shoot those button bucks so how much does he really care about fair chase. Routinely shooting the dumbest animal in the woods speaks for itself. I had a button buck follow me through the woods in bow season like a little lost puppy would. Baaa..Baaaaaa.....are you my mommy? Just another troll thread. They never stop moving, and fast. You can yell at them and they ignore you. A button buck will look at you while you aim, watch the arrow leave your bow, watch it coming in and see it smack them in the chest and still not know what is happening. And now for the cooking section: Herbed Button Buck Roast 4 lb Venison shoulder roast; floured & seasoned with salt & pepper to taste 3 tb Cooking oil 1 Onion, sliced 1/2 Green pepper, chopped 2 cl Garlic, minced 16 oz Can tomatos 1/2 c Port (wine) 1/2 ts Fresh chopped parsley 1/2 ts Thyme 2 Whole cloves 10 Peppercorns 1 Bay leaf Brown floured roast in oil in dutch oven over medium-high heat. When brown,remove meat from pan, set aside. Fry onions, peppers and garlic for 5 minutes, stirring often. Add tomatos,port, herbs and spices. When mixture comes to a boil, add the roast and baste with sauce. Cover and place in a pre-heated oven at 350 degrees and cook for about 2 1/2 hours or until tender. Baste several times with pan juices during roasting. Slice thin and serve with pan juices. Serves 4-6. |
RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
Damn livbucks, you had to pick the day I skipped lunch to post that....
*droooolllllllllll* Think it'll be some chicken-fried-backstrap for dinner this evening..... |
RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
I like to use a dribble of Olive oil on them backstraps. Adds just the right nuance.
|
RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
Ever try to arrow one? They never stop moving, and fast. You can yell at them and they ignore you. A button buck will look at you while you aim, watch the arrow leave your bow, watch it coming in and see it smack them in the chest and still not know what is happening. That is simply a young deer that is inexperienced which is different from being dumb. A rutting buck ignores the danger signs that they are all to aware of while chasing does. Thanks for the recipe. |
RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
If you need an example of "Fair Chase" versus "High Fence" look at what Jack Brittingham kills with a bow every-year. Now, compare his results to some of the best "Fair Chase" land owners, Kisky's, Drury's, and Lakosky's for example. Are they killing a booner every-year with a bow? Nope.... If you don't see a difference than you don't know SQUAT about bow hunting for mature whitetails......
|
RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
Thanks for the recipe. That is simply a young deer that is inexperienced which is different from being dumb. I have a game camera...hardly ever get anything but does and fawns on it. I use it to get me and my Dad and brothers a little excited and looking forward to bow season. I can't bait them if the camera is set up anywhere near my stand sites, that would be illegal in PA. I have only ever seen one buck during season that I got a pic of preseason. I'd like to take a dump on this thread. Atlas should write for PETA. |
RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
ORIGINAL: ghemry Have you been scounting those button bucks this year? I could go on a rant on how shooting fawns is not hunting, but I could careless what you shoot. Besides those little burgers are tasty!! Amazing. I have not questioned anyone's hunting methods even one time. You obviously have not read anything you say you did or you wouldn't be so off target. |
RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
Hi Atlas,
How's it goin'? Dem buttons sure are tender. |
RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
ORIGINAL: Davoh If you really want to take this down to it's roots (man vs. beast w/ no tools), is it fair of a lioness to use her claws and jaws to take down a wildebeast? or cheetah to run down it's prey with it's 60mph speeds? Every beast on earth uses it's God-given tools for it's survival and it's hunting(for predators). Agreed...........I just wonder how many of those beasts sit around and tell each other how "fair chase" it was when the 4 tiger tag team took turns running after a gazelle until he got too tired. |
RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
ORIGINAL: Rack-attack For the first time in 5 yrs we agree:D:D The Corn and the Pictures and the corn and the pictures and the corn..............................LOL............  |
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:56 AM. |
Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.