RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
 

I'll be more than happy to let you shed a tear in my beer when you see my before and after pictures this year. :D

RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
 

I shoot my bow plenty. Don't plant food plots........or hunt on a lease......or use game cameras. WOW, you REALLY missed a lot of reading. You should read what was written and then you will understand that the thread has nothing to do with any of the stuff you mentioned.


24 hour surveillance from the comfort of your couch is a "fair" one on one challenge? Really? Do you think the deer would agree?



Then why do they use them?...........and what do "big bucks" have anything to do with the topic?

RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
 

How's that?

Maybe you should read the replies because I am not complaining about anything.

RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
 

Don't know..............I do know that it doesn't fit where a lot of people apply it.


I don't think we need to do anything..............I just don't think we need to be running around crying when things cross the line (whatever that is) that it is violating the holy grail of "fair chase"

Honestly, tell me that you could sit down a person that doesn't know much about hunting and make them believe that the arsenal we carry into the woods to kill a deer is really "fair chase".............Do you really think they would not burst out laughing?

Don't misunderstand and think I have a problem with the hunting methods because you know very well that I don't.............but "fair chase"??? It just sounds so stupid.

RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
 

Speaking for myself, I use a trail camera because it's fun. It's another scouting tool that may or may not aid me in harvesting an animal. I've had pictures of bucks that I have never seen and I have pictures of bucks that I've recognized immediately. It's great to have close up pictures of buck, fawns, does in the area that you would never get that close for a picture. At times, I honestly think trail cameras can be a hinderance because they can scare animals, nothing unfair about taking a deers picture is there?

I enjoy them, that is why I use them.

RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
 

The only unfair gagget on the market today that makes deer hunting completely unfair chase is that stinken ole Whisker Biscuit. When you get buck fever when that spiker comes in and that arrow would go flying off if it wern't for that WB, than by golly thats just not fair.

RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
 

I'm not accusing anyone of anything............I have no problem with the way anyone hunts.......you know that. I hunt the same way.......I just don't think I would go around advertising it as "fair chase" just because there is no chain link fence in view.



Same here..............like I said, I don't have any problem with any of that.........but calling it "fair chase"??? Just sounds stupid and if I think it sounds stupid I can only imagine what an outsider who sees 30 guys in orange putting on non stop drives every fall must think. I just see it as a stupid label that people use for what reason I don't know.

Why can't we just call it hunting?


How much different is that from the situation I described? Definately not the same........I agree........but VAST difference????......Hmmmm.




I wasn't pointing out anyone specific.




Perhaps you should re-read that...........I said how can so many people be FURIOUS over the WHA and use the term "fair chase" as justification........and then go out and hunt in a manner that many would consider not "fair chase"............That is why I don't care for the term at all.

I don't think it is a good fit.............anywhere. I certainly wouldn't use it to justify my choice of hunting over someone elses.



Why would you be offended by my opinion that the term "fair chase" is stupid?

RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
 

Most deer hunting is just plain and simple ambushing unsuspecting deer. Fair? who knows! I guess the only time it can be true fair chase is if you could tell the deer when you will be out there and what weapon you will be using. Although atlasman has some good points, I will still be out there on opening day.

RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
 

Oh no I think the fat lady is singing. I'm in agreement with Atlas. Fair chase is only in the mind of the beholder.

RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
 

RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
 

Okay A'man....the term "fair chase" is stupid...it's a coined phrase that people seem to over use...however...what is it that you deem "fair chase"?

Actually I misspoke...let's not use the term "fair chase" because that is what we are debating is stupid...there's no such thing as "fair chase" unless we go out there naked and take an old wily buck down bare handed....

let's just keep things legal..as sportsmen and women, we shouldn't do less.

RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
 

You don't think the pictures you see posted here are the only pictures of those deer do you??



I have thought that myself for years now.............I just never had the heart to say it [:o]

Game cams are just one of things I mentioned David.........try to see the big picture.

RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
 

Rack size has nothing to do with the topic.




Cmon man...........todays compounds are not hard to shoot. It isn't rocket science. Will you win Vegas???.........no..........can you kill a deer with not a ton of practice? Yes. I practice my nads off...........but do I think that I could leave my bow in the case until a few days before the season and still be lethal??......yes.

Ooooops..........the deer was 27 yards, not 20. 320 fps bow and the deer is just as dead. 220 fps and it's a miss low.

BIG difference.

RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
 

I'll be the first to congratulate you.............I just won't use a dumb term like "fair chase" to do it.

RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
 

Too much focus on game cams..............you guys are losing grasp of the point.............Oh, and I see nothing wrong with anything you said. I still don't see how the term "fair chase" fits in though.

RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
 

RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
 

Me too!!!

RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
 

The terrorists on 9/11 used their love for their god to destroy our country

Barry Bonds uses steroids to hit homeruns

My boss uses his inherrited wealth to buy what he wants and boss people around

My wife uses her looks and sweet talk to get me to do things I normally wouldn't

Life is about using advantage...if I want to use a camera and 7 dollars worth of corn to shoot a deer for the freezer I will.

RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
 

I don't even know if it fits hunting at all...............does it???

Why can't we just call it hunting??


I have a hard time posting a line of shooters at a bottleneck of the woods and then walking through with 20 other guys to cover every square inch of real estate and spook up every critter in sight and send them to the gauntlet where the only chance of survival is minimal at best.............and then telling someone it was a "fair chase" hunt because there was no fence. (DISCLAIMER: I just used a drive as one example. I could have used 20 other situations that would have fit just as nice. I gun hunt, always have and always will........NO OFFENSE meant to anyone.......just an example.......create your own if you wish)



Pretty much...........that is why I think the term is so dumb and it sounds so silly when I hear hunters preaching it.

AMEN.

RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
 

I would support you every step of the way..................I just wouldn't describe it as "fair chase"

RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
 

Well atlas you must be board

Here is my only statement to you.

I have zero game cameras’, but who cares if guys use them.

I am glad you appointed yourself the fairchase police.

Where does the line get Drawn? Good question.

I believe we have had great advancement in hunting, and each advancement has made shooting whitetails easier. You have decided hunting with a compound bow, tree stand and high tec camo is faircahse. Some might say your cheating, I really do not care, if it is legal have at it.

If you are whining about what others use, to be a true hunter I suggest you pick up a rock and go get 'em. Make sure to wear only a loin cloth, because this is how true hunters hunt.

I do not know what ticks you off about how others hunt, they are not bother you, so please do not bother them. It is real easy to look down on others from your high horse. Please your babble is just noise.

Those hunting camera are made by AMERICAN companies. Give American's Jobs!!!

I can tell you this, where I see a deer in August and September. Is not where I see themn come hunting season, and I think we both know that!!!

RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
 

I think Rob summed it up rather well. As long as you don't have a pen where you hunt your game at, I don't see a problem with all the high tech gadgets. I agree most use range finders to make sure they get a clean kill. Here in Indiana it is legal to use feeders before and after the season, and there aren't any laws against food plots. I use feeders and supplements( BUCK GRUB) in which I make it a point NOT to hunt anywhere near the feeding sites. I think you could honestly say that to get completly fair chase we would need to widdle our own bows and arrows like the Indians or use spears.IMO Good luck hunting this year to all.

RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
 

I am made of wood?


Not me.

I didn't.

I agree..........if it is legal and safe then have a ball...........but why do we have to use the label "fair chase".........it doesn't fit. What is wrong with calling it hunting? It's not "fair"..........look at any state with huge numbers of hunters.........the deer are lucky to live 2-3 years........very lucky.



Never said anything like that..........maybe you should re-read the thread.


Nothing...........maybe you should re-read the thread.


I agree.............maybe you should re-read the thread.

What does that have to do with the subject?? Forget re-reading it. Just read it once rather then commenting based on assumptions. I didn't say any of the things you posted about.

RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
 

How are so many people missing the point???.......No one cares about gadgets..........it's not about the gadgets. That is part of the equation but not the focus.

So what you are saying is that as long as there is no pen where you hunt........that makes it "fair chase"?

RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
 

"FAIR CHASE, as defined by the Boone and Crockett Club, is the ethical, sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging wild, native North American big game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such animals."

I do believe that it was B&C who "coined" the phrase fellas. And I do believe that just about all 50 states specify this same definition in their game laws.

So, basically Atlasman's whole argument needs to be boiled down to: What is an "improper" advantage defined as?

RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
 

imo strictly you are correct...but we all live in self tailored versions of reality. aparently from some other entries people get mad when you mess with theirs;) hunting is not about 'fair' it is about doing it a certain way that makes you yourself feel good about it

RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
 

WEll He!! boy, you mean we've gone through 7 or 8 pages of replies over symmantics. You don't like it, don't use it. I detest the use of the word Harvest. It's killing, not harvesting. I won't use it. If someone does I tell them it's killing. So that brings us back to Fair Chase. OK, let's just calltag or something. I'll send you a dictionary and you can pick one of your own chosing.

RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
 

[quote]ORIGINAL: atlasman

Actually in my post Atlas, I was talking about farmers planting soy andcorn to make a living, not planting soy or corn to bait deer. Although, maybe you did understand and still feel hunting around such areas is not fair chase. Either way, Im gonna try and KILL (like that Davemil ;))a big un for you and have a toast with James V!! Hope you have a great season Atlas hunting the way you like doing it bud.

RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
 

Ok you got me on the board thing, hey I was all urked about something else.

Good one.

Atlas I read your post for a laugh, but you just seem mad about something. Who really cares how others hunt or what they call it. If they are obey the games laws for their state and are having fun let them have at it.

If you have an issue with fair chase call Boone & Crockett.

The last line was for no matter how many gadets we have, come hunting season it really does not matter. The deer go nocturnel, etc, etc. You could have 100 pictures of a buck in one spot, Come October he is gone!!!

RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
 

I think everyone needs to go and re-read the original post. No where does atlasman say anything against people who use these gadgets What I get out of it is look around the board there are so many post about fenced hunts and things like that when the same person who is complaining is the same guy who starts a thread about baiting or what to plant in their food plot(not that there is anything wrong with that if its legal hav at it who cares what others believe) but how is that considered fair chase when having a food plot or a feeder is almost better than a fence because you no exactly where the deer will be and know they will be there. As far as what atlasman says about gear my take on it is that having a fast bow is a big advantage over say a traditional bow for example IMO anyone could pick up a compound and be able to take a deer within a few days(same with high powered rifle) ask any traditional shooter if that is possible with a recurve or long bow I bet I know what they would tell you(not saying that your not a real hunter unless you use as primative tool there is because that is just not true). As far as trail cams, how is that fair are they once again you know exactly what is there and when it is going to be there. No where does atlasman condem(sp?) anyone for using them as he has stated everytime he has defended his post. Maybe I am reading his post wrong but this is what I get out of it. Good luck and stay safe this hunting season.

RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
 

gawd I wish I'd have gotten in on this sooner !

fair chase is in your own mind - I agree. But Hunting and what hunting is can be defined I believe.

in life, nothing is worth anything unless you put something into it, and the more you put into it, the more you get out of it.

People going into the fenced enclosures are getting nothing out of it.

People shooting high tech equipment and using the latest and greatest stuffs, gadgets etc are cheating what hunting is - instead of taking the road less traveled, instead of putting a LOT into it, they are instead taking shortcuts and putting LESS into it.

and in return they get less

RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
 

The use of high tech equipment does not make the hunt any less worthwhile, any less memorable, or any less enjoyable.

How is it that those of us who take these "shortcuts" as you call them, are getting less out of it?

I put in the same amount of work scouting the land, hanging stands, practicing with my equipment, and everything else that goes into a hunt as anyone else. How is it that this amount of work somehow yields less than someone using primative equipment?

RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
 

Why do people shoot compounds instead of recurve ?

Honeslty answer that question, because the answer is it increases your chances of killing an animal, with less effort and work. You don't have to wait for that 20 yar shot, you can take a 30 yard shot. No need for daily practice, one a week or two is good. No need to learn to shoot finger - you got a release. No need to learn to pick a spot - put the pin where you want the arrow to go. No need to train your muscles and hand/eye coordination - you got 80% letoff.

See ?

If you work all summer and earn enough to buy a new rifle, do you appreciate it ? Yes you will, and you'll treat it with respect, because you earned it.

If I go out the same evening you buy your rifle, and I steal one just like it after laying around all summer, can you say that I'll appreciate mine the same ? Or if my rich Daddy buys me one ..... ?

You know the answer.

You built your compound, like a primitive hunter cut his osage and made his bow ? You walk everywhere instead of using an ATV ? You've learned to master the art of stalking game instead of using tree stands ? You don't use scent lock etc, but rather you've learned the art of using the wind ? You don't use trail cameras and feeders etc, but rather you've learned to read the signs in the woods on how and where deer travel ?

See ?

RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
 

tell me this - what was the last piece of archery equipment or hunting equipment you bought and why ?

meaning ........ was the item meant to make the filling of your tag easier ? Was it a piece of equipment to help eliminate a certain part of the sport ?

Like a game camera - they eliminate part of scouting
Like mechanical heads - they eliminate the critical parts of tuning your bow
Like a release for your bow - eliminates the need to learn to shoot fingers well


Me ? I bought a unch of Wensel Woodsman broadheads. Why ? I wanted a 3 blade head, and a bigger one that what I've used before. I could have went with Phantoms, or Sonics, or Stingers (I like those BTW) but instead I chose WW's for a variety of reasons. one of those is that I have to LEARN how to sharpen them. I literally spent hours already working on getting them sharp.

A small aspect of my hunts, sure, but if I kill this fall, I can say I was the one sho sharpened that head to a razor edge.

At some point I'd like to go primitive and knap my own, but its a progression I've found. Every time I make my hunt HARDER, it becomes more rewarding.

Every time I put more effort into what I'm doing, the more reward I get from it.

RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
 

Don't generalize so much.

I may shoot a compound, but I practice with it every day. My muscles still need to be trained, as I shoot with 65% let off. I still have to pick a spot, that pin has to be in the right place for a quick, clean kill.

Stealing rifles? What? No one is stealing game animals. I worked for the bow I own, so what was your point here?

No, I didn't build my compound, but that doesn't mean a thing. Yes, I walk everywhere because I find that using an ATV makes the hunt less of a challenge. I don't own a lick of clothing made for blocking scent, I hunt the wind. I don't own a trail cam nor do I own a feeder. Likewise I don't throw out piles of corn. I hunt the trails. Yes, I can read the sign.

Please don't generalize.

RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
 

Why not, its easy to do and often I'm right on the frickin money.


Who are you trying to kid ? You shoot a compound because you don't want to put the effort into learning a recurve. You want the speed, the power, the sights, the release, the letoff ......... you want it easier.

And no, you do not pick a spot. Thats a HUGE misnomer in the bowhunting world of compounds. You pick a spot and then ....... cover it up ? How can you focus on the spot when its covered up with your pin ?

You can't. And the further the target, the more area the pin covers up.

I know ........ I hunted with compounds for 12-13 years and shot more arrows than most guys in their lifetimes.


You totally missed it. My point was that things that are earned are respected and cherished and they MEAN something.

A better scenario is you hunting public lands and shooting a 150" buck, and me paying for an EBAY hunt and shooting a 150" - which of our bucks mean more ? You know the answer ........ yours does. Why ?


Oh good gawd. When you search the woods, cut the tree, spend hours and hours making the stave into a bow, tillering it, taking the rings down, breaking a few and then having one come out that shoots and killing something with it ......... you cannot see how much the greater reward would be ? Even the bow itsself has a great value - much more personal and intimate than the compound you bought from Cabela's


ATV users will hate you for saying that you know ?


People who use scentlok will hate you for saying that.

Then you kinda get what I'm saying, don't you ? The above things you don't do ........ why ?

I'm very good at it. You see the things I see Washington Hunterwhen we look at others. Where you're lacking is when I look at you, and you cannot see what I see.

Your compound bow is a shortcut, its the easy route, it takes away from your hunt just like ATV's, cameras and piles of corn.

And honesly, I can look at myself and see that my laminated longbow I use takes away from my hunt when a man who builds primitve equipment looks at me. And I know this

RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
 

I can see your points, you're correct.

Funny thing you mention recurves, considering thats what I started with. I was proficient with it up to 70 yards -- I was putting 5 arrows in a paper plate at 70 yards, instinctively. I was9 at the time it was purchased for me.

I'm not bragging, I'm simply letting you know that I've been down both roads. I have never hunted with my recurve, but I plan to eventually.

You're getting off track though, hunting with recurves or compounds, one isnt any more fair chase than the other. One may be more diffcult to master, but a skilled archer with either piece of equipment can kill an animal.

The harder you hunt, the more rewarding the experience, correct. However, I don't feel that the equipment I use interferes with the outcome of my experience.

RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
 

The word harvest is used soften a meaning...........not change it..........and the way some deer are grown and killed today harvest actually fits better..........because if it resembles farming more then hunting then harvest is a better fit.

I still don't see where "fair chase" fits..............anywhere.

RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
 

I hunt the same as you do.

RE: I think it's time to stop the "fair chase" charade
 

I'm not mad at all..........just think it is a stupid rallying cry.



Why?


I disagree.