Talked trash and paid for it
11-04-2002 | 07:40 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 22
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From: west terre haute In USA
Talked trash and paid for it
well after talking trash to you mech guys about not losing deer on a "good" hit i did just that today.
Its along story but I ll try to keep it short . First of all I spotted this doe about to bed down about 10:30 this morning
And Made a sucessful stalk to within 20 yards of her in her bed. But I could not see her body just her neck and head . so I waited and waited
and waited. I watched her from 20 yards for approx 45 min. Then I could tell from her body Language that she was about to get up so I drew,
and to my surprise I was right , as I anchored she began to stand but was severely quartered away leaving me about a 4 in window at her vitals between her hind quarter and front shoulder. she also was not completely to her feet when i released, she was still on her front knees but was up on her rear legs. My plan was to enter her low and just in front of her hind quarter. with the severe quartering shot and her being on her knees in the front the arrow should've exited about mid ship through the opposite shoulder. the arrow entered as planned and buried to the knock. I assume since i did not acheive total pass through that the broadhead either hit many ribs and or the shoulder blade almost length ways . the path the arrow took should ve gave me a hit to the intestines , liver , and at least one lung , I really thought i should' ve got the back of the first lung and center of the second. She ran off and I gave her 30 min. I had to walk the direction she ran for about 50 yds to get back to my vehicle. I did not plan on going after her yet because even though i was pretty shure the hit was a good one , I wasnt going to take any chances with the severe quartering shot. But after getting on her blood trail I decided she had to be dead because it was a simply amazing blood trail, you know one of them that looks like someone had been dumping it from a bucket. Blood was everywhere from both sides of her tracks. It was enough to completly convince me she had not gone far and died running. So I continued on. About 60 yds from where I shot her I saw her fawn take off. At that point i knew she was dead and where she was and it was time to claim my backstap dinner. Her blood was leading up this little knoll and there were a couple more just like beyond it. I followed the trail up the knoll. When I reached the top , to my surprise , she layed on the next one still alive and about 12 yds from me. calmly and casually i knocked another arrow and drew. but before i could shoot she was up and over the knoll and out of sight heading down a big hill. so i decided it was time to go back to plan A. I went back to the truck called my dad for help. and ate lunch. I figured by the time he got there it woul give her about 2 hours to die. and with all the blood she was losing i figured that was more than plenty. once he got there we set out to collect her. I figured she might of went 200 yds tops before she bedded again. well we kicked her up about 100 yds from where i almost shot her again 2hrs ago. she was still bleeding good up to that point at least as good as an average broodside double lung hit. but from the point we kicked her up on she averaged one quarter sized drop every three feet. which is not bad and is easy to track . we talked about leaving her till tomorrow and decided against it since we both had to work and the earliest i could get back to her would be about 4 pm tomorrow. so we pressed on she continued to bleed as i described. we never kicked her up again and never found where she had bedded up but followed the blood for over a mile maybe a mile and a half bleeding the same the whole way. up until the last 2 or 3 hundred yards it then tapered off to nothing . we did a search pattern covering about 40 or 50 acres thoroughly with no luck.
well after all this i am stumped. from the angle of the arrow unless it did something weird after it entered i cant see any way that i got less than intestines liver stomach and one lung. But I shouldve found her with that much tissue damage so i obviously did something less.
but what I am getting at is with my setup i should have a ton of ke. 70 lb draw 30 in 2315 125 grain head with radical solo cam bow (pse thunder bolt). next year I think i am going to set it up with carbons and 145 grain 3 blade Rothaar Snuffers. the only complaint i have ever had with the 2 blade coi head is the 1 1/8 cut path with only 2 blades. that particular snuffer i believe has a 1 1/2 cut with three blades. I think if i can get that setup to fly it 'll give me an extra cutting surface and 3/8" more diameter. couldnt hurt on an good hit and would definatly help on a marginal hit like the one i had to day.
I am going to have to do some research and make sure i get it set up with enough ke for that big head. I think with carbons i will lose some weight but hopefully gain some of it back with the 145 grain head. We'll see though but for now i think thats where I am headed for next season. It'll be tough though since ive been shootin 2 blades for so long. But I think the change will be for the better. I just thought you ought to know that, after i talked up magnus heads so much that id be switching and why. I still cant complain about , how good they fly and how well the penetrate. but I think I can spare some ke to gain more damage.
Its along story but I ll try to keep it short . First of all I spotted this doe about to bed down about 10:30 this morning
And Made a sucessful stalk to within 20 yards of her in her bed. But I could not see her body just her neck and head . so I waited and waited
and waited. I watched her from 20 yards for approx 45 min. Then I could tell from her body Language that she was about to get up so I drew,
and to my surprise I was right , as I anchored she began to stand but was severely quartered away leaving me about a 4 in window at her vitals between her hind quarter and front shoulder. she also was not completely to her feet when i released, she was still on her front knees but was up on her rear legs. My plan was to enter her low and just in front of her hind quarter. with the severe quartering shot and her being on her knees in the front the arrow should've exited about mid ship through the opposite shoulder. the arrow entered as planned and buried to the knock. I assume since i did not acheive total pass through that the broadhead either hit many ribs and or the shoulder blade almost length ways . the path the arrow took should ve gave me a hit to the intestines , liver , and at least one lung , I really thought i should' ve got the back of the first lung and center of the second. She ran off and I gave her 30 min. I had to walk the direction she ran for about 50 yds to get back to my vehicle. I did not plan on going after her yet because even though i was pretty shure the hit was a good one , I wasnt going to take any chances with the severe quartering shot. But after getting on her blood trail I decided she had to be dead because it was a simply amazing blood trail, you know one of them that looks like someone had been dumping it from a bucket. Blood was everywhere from both sides of her tracks. It was enough to completly convince me she had not gone far and died running. So I continued on. About 60 yds from where I shot her I saw her fawn take off. At that point i knew she was dead and where she was and it was time to claim my backstap dinner. Her blood was leading up this little knoll and there were a couple more just like beyond it. I followed the trail up the knoll. When I reached the top , to my surprise , she layed on the next one still alive and about 12 yds from me. calmly and casually i knocked another arrow and drew. but before i could shoot she was up and over the knoll and out of sight heading down a big hill. so i decided it was time to go back to plan A. I went back to the truck called my dad for help. and ate lunch. I figured by the time he got there it woul give her about 2 hours to die. and with all the blood she was losing i figured that was more than plenty. once he got there we set out to collect her. I figured she might of went 200 yds tops before she bedded again. well we kicked her up about 100 yds from where i almost shot her again 2hrs ago. she was still bleeding good up to that point at least as good as an average broodside double lung hit. but from the point we kicked her up on she averaged one quarter sized drop every three feet. which is not bad and is easy to track . we talked about leaving her till tomorrow and decided against it since we both had to work and the earliest i could get back to her would be about 4 pm tomorrow. so we pressed on she continued to bleed as i described. we never kicked her up again and never found where she had bedded up but followed the blood for over a mile maybe a mile and a half bleeding the same the whole way. up until the last 2 or 3 hundred yards it then tapered off to nothing . we did a search pattern covering about 40 or 50 acres thoroughly with no luck.
well after all this i am stumped. from the angle of the arrow unless it did something weird after it entered i cant see any way that i got less than intestines liver stomach and one lung. But I shouldve found her with that much tissue damage so i obviously did something less.
but what I am getting at is with my setup i should have a ton of ke. 70 lb draw 30 in 2315 125 grain head with radical solo cam bow (pse thunder bolt). next year I think i am going to set it up with carbons and 145 grain 3 blade Rothaar Snuffers. the only complaint i have ever had with the 2 blade coi head is the 1 1/8 cut path with only 2 blades. that particular snuffer i believe has a 1 1/2 cut with three blades. I think if i can get that setup to fly it 'll give me an extra cutting surface and 3/8" more diameter. couldnt hurt on an good hit and would definatly help on a marginal hit like the one i had to day.
I am going to have to do some research and make sure i get it set up with enough ke for that big head. I think with carbons i will lose some weight but hopefully gain some of it back with the 145 grain head. We'll see though but for now i think thats where I am headed for next season. It'll be tough though since ive been shootin 2 blades for so long. But I think the change will be for the better. I just thought you ought to know that, after i talked up magnus heads so much that id be switching and why. I still cant complain about , how good they fly and how well the penetrate. but I think I can spare some ke to gain more damage.
11-04-2002 | 10:59 PM
#2
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 443
Likes: 0
From: Walker LA USA
RE: Talked trash and paid for it
I don't care what broadhead you use,if you take a low percentage shot,this can happen.I'm not gonna sit here and second guess your shot selection because I've done the same.From what you say with her being lower in front you could have hit a litle high and missed the lung entirely,maybe even the liver too.That would leave you with a gut shot ending up high in the front shoulder.If she ran that far it's hard to see how you could have hit either a lung or the liver.She should have bled out.If you put that snuffer on a light carbon you're gonna need a good helical to get it to fly well.A drop away rest might be worth the investment.With the amount of KE you should have with that set up a good mechanical should'nt be a problem with penetration.You would get alot more tissue damage and not have to worry about getting that big fixed blade to fly straight.I think that's called having your cake and eating it too
My setup probaly has less Ke than yours and penetration has not been an issue with a rocket expandable.Check out the pics of the doe frank shot with a hammerhead.Awesome.I've had similar results.Sorry you lost the deer.
Good hunting,
Billy
WHACKEM N STACKEM
My setup probaly has less Ke than yours and penetration has not been an issue with a rocket expandable.Check out the pics of the doe frank shot with a hammerhead.Awesome.I've had similar results.Sorry you lost the deer.Good hunting,
Billy
WHACKEM N STACKEM
11-04-2002 | 11:09 PM
#3
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,994
Likes: 0
From: egypt
RE: Talked trash and paid for it
I would bet if he took the same shot the penetration would have been less but quite possible a blade just might have hit something.
The snuffers are however quite big in cutting diameter yet vented and fly very very well!
As for your deer.
First you should have backed off, I bet you just kept pushing her until she died!!! Its hard to sit here and judge your shot placement without a picture as many of my compadres both here and in the lower 48 have had those "perfect" shots become liver or guts liver shots. A couple hours might have just been enough
Also to effectivly cover 40-50 acres with two guys looking for blood/deer, would take hours at best! Dont give up as I am sure she isnt far from the last blood, a common occurance is the blood trailing dissappearing right before they expire! Go SLOOOOWLY, look at the terrain and terrain features, Ie cover and concealment you would use if you were wounded and was hiding from a traling enemy! Deer are not that different, they do however do wild and crazy things, albeit for reasons we may never understand! Dont give up, you'll find her!
The snuffers are however quite big in cutting diameter yet vented and fly very very well!
As for your deer.
First you should have backed off, I bet you just kept pushing her until she died!!! Its hard to sit here and judge your shot placement without a picture as many of my compadres both here and in the lower 48 have had those "perfect" shots become liver or guts liver shots. A couple hours might have just been enough
Also to effectivly cover 40-50 acres with two guys looking for blood/deer, would take hours at best! Dont give up as I am sure she isnt far from the last blood, a common occurance is the blood trailing dissappearing right before they expire! Go SLOOOOWLY, look at the terrain and terrain features, Ie cover and concealment you would use if you were wounded and was hiding from a traling enemy! Deer are not that different, they do however do wild and crazy things, albeit for reasons we may never understand! Dont give up, you'll find her!
11-05-2002 | 05:33 AM
#4
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
From: Dewitt, NY
RE: Talked trash and paid for it
Just this past weekend I had a deer travel more than 3 miles with a hole in one lung, a nick in the liver and a bruise on the heart. If we hadn't had snow, I never would have found her. She bled the whole way, but backtracked on her own blood trail three different times. They can travel a long ways on one lung. Eventually they will die. Sorry to hear about your deer.
11-05-2002 | 06:29 AM
#5
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,157
Likes: 0
From: Lehigh County PA USA
RE: Talked trash and paid for it
I am sorry to hear that you did not find the deer but I wouldn't give up just yet. If she bled that much then I would be inclined to believe what Lilhunter mentioned about her being close to expiring.
A severe quartering away shot is a difficult one to call as you can never be sure exactly what organs were damaged and which ones weren't.
I wish you luck in finding it.
A severe quartering away shot is a difficult one to call as you can never be sure exactly what organs were damaged and which ones weren't.
I wish you luck in finding it.
11-05-2002 | 06:47 AM
#6
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
From: MO USA
RE: Talked trash and paid for it
I won't second-guess your actions, either, so please don't take this the wrong way. I can only try and put myself in that same situation, and think about what I might have done. I don't think I would have taken the shot, because it sounds like a very severe angle. I won't take a shot quarterly so severely that I have to push the arrow through the guts.
I don't think a mech head would have entered the deer as far as your fixed head, although I agree with an earlier statement that a large cutting diamter mech may have taken out more "vital" stuff.
Either way, I'll bet that the deer is dead. It sounds like a lot of blood was lost, and the deer is probably dead out there somewhere. You may have pushed it too far.
MOCraig
I don't think a mech head would have entered the deer as far as your fixed head, although I agree with an earlier statement that a large cutting diamter mech may have taken out more "vital" stuff.
Either way, I'll bet that the deer is dead. It sounds like a lot of blood was lost, and the deer is probably dead out there somewhere. You may have pushed it too far.
MOCraig
11-05-2002 | 07:01 PM
#7
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 22
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From: west terre haute In USA
RE: Talked trash and paid for it
Yeah in hindsight i definatly saw the mistakes i made. first of all i was pretty convinced before making the shot it would be a good one. I was wrong. but ive been on the insides of many deer and still cant see how i missed the lungs. I am sure how the arrow hit the deer and entered where i meant for it to. when i snuck up on her after my first shot i could see the entry wound, it was exactly where i planned the shot.
If i would have left her after making the shot she probably wouldve died right there, and that was my intentions. but after seeing the amount of blood loss it really convinced me she was dead. I am serious i have seen a lot of blood trails and this was the second best ever, for the first hundred yards. the first being a buck shot through both juggler veins. I have shot several through the heart and have never seen any of them bleed that good. but again it was a mistake to assume anything on a wounded animal.
well I have never taken a shot at that angle before. I thought it would be good and was wrong. But wont make that mistake again.
I did go back after work today and search. The area we lost her in was a narrow stretch (100 yards wide) between a river and monster of a hill side ( barely climbable ). so i think she must be in it somewhere. but its about 5 miles long and has some really thick areas. she couldve swam the river or climbed the hill but i doubt it. any way I never found her. I truly hate losing an animal, I know its part of it but I shoot year around just so things like this wont happen and yet they still do. It is surely not the first time ever and probably wont be the last.
I think I may also invest the time and money and get a good hound and teach it to blood trail. I know a good hound wouldve found her. Do any of you guys have any recomendations as to what makes the best trail dog, I would think a kerr or a walker but a buddy of mine in florida uses beagles and loves them.
If i would have left her after making the shot she probably wouldve died right there, and that was my intentions. but after seeing the amount of blood loss it really convinced me she was dead. I am serious i have seen a lot of blood trails and this was the second best ever, for the first hundred yards. the first being a buck shot through both juggler veins. I have shot several through the heart and have never seen any of them bleed that good. but again it was a mistake to assume anything on a wounded animal.
well I have never taken a shot at that angle before. I thought it would be good and was wrong. But wont make that mistake again.
I did go back after work today and search. The area we lost her in was a narrow stretch (100 yards wide) between a river and monster of a hill side ( barely climbable ). so i think she must be in it somewhere. but its about 5 miles long and has some really thick areas. she couldve swam the river or climbed the hill but i doubt it. any way I never found her. I truly hate losing an animal, I know its part of it but I shoot year around just so things like this wont happen and yet they still do. It is surely not the first time ever and probably wont be the last.
I think I may also invest the time and money and get a good hound and teach it to blood trail. I know a good hound wouldve found her. Do any of you guys have any recomendations as to what makes the best trail dog, I would think a kerr or a walker but a buddy of mine in florida uses beagles and loves them.
