Hey atlasman, your not alone in making the switch. I switched for other reasons and will probably never go back.
But I knew better than to try to post my thoughts about muzzies here because there are some die hard loyalist that love them, I used to be one of them. They have a large following for a reason- they're good broadheads. But if you find you don't care for them anymore, switch to something else and enjoy seeing what the new product can do for you. I have and now look foreward to my next SHORT bloodtrail !!

I am probably not as "technically sound" on this is some of the guys that have already posted to you, but I would guess that because your errant shots are not consistant in one direction or the other, it points even more to a less than perfect release or form. Don't get me wrong, I am not (and I don't think anyone else is either) putting you down in any way. I have always shot either Muzzy or Thunderhead, and I notice with myself that if I jerk the trigger or torque the bow even slightly while shooting my broadheads, the amount the shot will be off is double or triple that if I were shooting field tips. I don't know, tough situation to figure out. Have you marked the arrows when you get a flyer to see if it happens to be the same one or two arrows doing it? I had a similar problem last year and ended up taking a marker with me, and every time an arrow didn't group with the others (and I felt I had a good release) I would put a mark on the arrow. Might be worth a try.

--Sign In Chinese Pet Store: "Buy one dog, get one flea..."--

Let me see if I've got this straight..... Atlasman posts that he hit a rotten tree root with a Muzzy 4 blade and it didn't survive the hit very well. We then proceed to berate him about being a terrible bowhunter with a completely un-tuned bow. What am I missing here?

I'm amazed that we would rather believe that he is a bold-faced liar than believe that he might have had a defective broadhead. Whatever happened to comradery and respect for a fellow bowhunter?

Atasman, sorry you had a bad experience and I hope you get everything worked out.

Oh, by the way, my quiver is filled with nothing but Muzzy broadheads.

Turc

If you can't narrow the problems down to one arrow, one BH or one insert...AND you can shoot the arrows with consistency and precision for 20 shots on some days...then the answer to your question is YES, you must lose it and alter form.

If not, explain to me how a broadhead can perform well with 20 shots on one day and then produce errant shots the very next day?? The broadhead/arrow/insert combination didn't change, your bow set-up remained constant, nobody played with your target...

I guess that only leaves human error...

And yes, broadheads will show form error much moreso than fieldpoints. Changing your anchor point might make a fieldpoint miss the mark by 4"---that same miss might equal a foot with a broadhead.

And I'm also curious, what were your old heads, fixed or mechanical??

And a final question---if you were so unhappy with these BHs target shooting before the season started, then why did they accompany you to the woods for hunting purposes?

In a nutshell, are you positive you don't have any form flaws, and why would you take a chance with these heads if they performed so poorly prior to the season???

S&R

Atlasman,
have you tried a different rest? Just curious. Something is not right, or you should get consistent groups. I shoot 5" vanes with good helical and don't have any problems with either 3 or 4 blade 100 Gr. muzzys. It doesn't take much to be out of tune for broadheads. I shoot strictly broadheads, and find that the best method for overall accuracy is to group tune to 50 yards. If you've got a tuning problem it will become evident as you get to around 40 yards. Best of luck in resolving your problem. I've been there and it really shakes your confidence when you get flyers from nowhere. One of my bows was just doing that. I sent it back to my pro shop to get ready for and upcoming hunt and was advised that my sight was loose. Could have sworn I checked it, but it appears that I hadn't. Sometimes its the small things that cause the problem.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I would guess that because your errant shots are not consistant in one direction or the other, it points even more to a less than perfect release or form. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>


I don't agree. Errors in form tend to be repeated time and time again especially under pressure of a tough shot on a 3D course or on the buck of a lifetime......people are habitual, like a guy that slices on the golf course every time he tries to hit the ball a mile.

I just don't see how I could possibly throw darts arrow after arrow, day after day, month after month and all the sudden I have form so bad that some shots miss the entire target?? Maybe it is just me but I tend to look for what is different first as the most likely cause of the change in performance.......doesn't that seem more logical??? I changed something on my arrow setup and everything else remained the same......after the change, problems start......eliminate the change(put field tips back on) and problem goes away. It seems pretty straight forward to me.



<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I have always shot either Muzzy or Thunderhead, and I notice with myself that if I jerk the trigger or torque the bow even slightly while shooting my broadheads, the amount the shot will be off is double or triple that if I were shooting field tips. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>


And you are OK with that??? So if your groups are 3&quot; at 30 yards(pretty darn good in my book) and you have a micro flaw on release you may hit as much as 9&quot; from your point of aim??? That is not acceptable to me at all. 9&quot; could be the difference in a kill or miss or even worse a crippling wound. I demand more from my equipment then that.



<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Have you marked the arrows when you get a flyer to see if it happens to be the same one or two arrows doing it? I had a similar problem last year and ended up taking a marker with me, and every time an arrow didn't group with the others (and I felt I had a good release) I would put a mark on the arrow. Might be worth a try.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>



With all due respect Indy.......I really do think you are trying to help and have been very polite and I appreciate your input. Your above comment makes me think that you haven't read the thread before commenting.

I have done what you recommend above along with many other things as well to try and fix this situation.

Again, no disrespect intended. It is clear your comments had nothing but good intentions.

Just trying to save you some time <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

First off,don't take this personal.I am only trying to offer possible solutions to your problem.That being said,Form problems are more likely to show up with a broadhead than a fieldpoint.The wings on the broadhead(blades)will be more likely to steer an arrow off course on a bad shot.Especially with straight or slight offset fletching.What kind of bow are you shooting?A low brace height bow aggrivates this problem.I have also seen people have to tune their drop away rests by shortening or lenghtening the cord attached to the cable slide.If the rest is dropping to soon you may not be getting enough guidance to the arrow before the rest drops.This also would make form problems more accute.Weigh all of your finished arrows and broadheads.Find out how close they are.If there are enough differences in weight that could aggrivate the problem.Perhaps your drop away rest is not falling consistently.The cheapest possible solution maybe to try a different broadhead and see if the same problems still exist.I allways had good flight out of thunderheads.You might try those.If the problem still persists,either you have a mechanical problem that is intermittent(I would suspect the rest)or every now and then you are making a bad shot.I do it sometimes myself.Collapsing a little or torquing the bow at the shot.Good luck,these kind of things can drive you crazy.

Billy

WHACKEM N STACKEM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
If not, explain to me how a broadhead can perform well with 20 shots on one day and then produce errant shots the very next day?? The broadhead/arrow/insert combination didn't change, your bow set-up remained constant, nobody played with your target...

I guess that only leaves human error...<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>


If I could explain why we would not be here discussing this would we??

First of all like I said before the heads have NEVER given me groups as nice as field points. NEVER. However, I accepted the increased group size as part of the fixed head game and lowered my effective range accordingly. Increased group size is one thing.....random misses of up to 2 feet is a whole other ballgame.

All this plus a head that bent like a pretzel in dirt and a small tree root was just too much for me.......Man you act like I am lying or something.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>And yes, broadheads will show form error much moreso than fieldpoints. Changing your anchor point might make a fieldpoint miss the mark by 4&quot;---that same miss might equal a foot with a broadhead.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

I don't want anything in my quiver that has the potential to miss by a foot or more due to a slight change in form. I don't know about you but shooting from a treestand 20 feet up in wind and snow at an animal that just walked out of the last place you thought he would does not always leave you 10 minutes to make sure your in Olympic caliber form before the shot. If I miss my anchor point just slightly I don't expect to have disasterous results.......gross, major errors OK but tiny nit picking micro flaws......come on.


<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>And a final question---if you were so unhappy with these BHs target shooting before the season started, then why did they accompany you to the woods for hunting purposes?

In a nutshell, are you positive you don't have any form flaws, and why would you take a chance with these heads if they performed so poorly prior to the season???<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>




Because all I got was info like you're offering.......It must be you......fixed heads fly different......fix your bow tune......must be bad form......fixed heads magnify bad form blah, blah, blah, blah.

I think I actually became convinced that I was shooting as well as you could shoot a fixed head and I just had to hope I had PERFECT god-like form at the moment of truth. I was willing to accept that because I stubornly kept blaming myself while in the back of mind I always felt I was not to blame.........the damaged head was the kick in the butt I needed.......We will see what happens next.

I bought a pack of WASP mechanicals and some Thunderheads. I will soon know for sure what is the source of this situation.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I don't agree. Errors in form tend to be repeated time and time again especially under pressure of a tough shot on a 3D course or on the buck of a lifetime......people are habitual, like a guy that slices on the golf course every time he tries to hit the ball a mile.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Well you can't tune a golf club to the golfer. Everyone has some form errors but if they are reproducable like the ones that you are referring to then you can tune around the errors. For example if the way you grip the bow produces torque then you paper tune by hand not from a hooter shooter etc... because the hooter shooter doesn't take into to account how you grip the bow. So to make a long story short if a form error was a &quot;reproducable&quot; error then you would see similar characteristics to your flyers however if they were random form errors then you would have random flyers.

Protect your hunting rights, &quot;Spay or neuter a liberal.&quot;

Atlas,

I was going back through and reading some of what you had to say about what was happening and what others were suggesting.

I did think of something that might be affecting it. What about the spine of your shafts. I know I know, here me out for a second. You might be punching bullets when everthing is perfect which may happen 99% of the time, with the mechs and field points you may never see it. But with those muzzys or any other bigger head you just may. Its just a thought, something that might have been overlooked!