<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> I think I actually became convinced that I was shooting as well as you could shoot a fixed head and I just had to hope I had PERFECT god-like form at the moment of truth. I was willing to accept that because I stubornly kept blaming myself while in the back of mind I always felt I was not to blame.........the damaged head was the kick in the butt I needed.......We will see what happens next.

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Well really you were to blame. No one told you to keep shooting the Muzzy's once you realized you couldn't group with them. I don't shoot Muzzy's but I can guarantee you that I can screw some in and shoot good with them(shot some of my old ones the other day for giggles). I have shot T-heads, Montecs, and Muzzy's out of my bow this year and they all shot great. So either your bow wasn't tuned, your arrows weren't tuned, or you were having some form problems. Either way it was your fault. Every bow and arrow combination that I have ever seen is capable of shooting broadheads witout flyers of up to 2' feet and contrary to your belief it is your responsibility to either see that they do so or to not take them into the woods. I would never take a bow into the woods that I knew there was a possibilty of shooting up to 2' from where I aimed.

Protect your hunting rights, &quot;Spay or neuter a liberal.&quot;

Just a final comment, then I'm off this thread...

If you wanted help, then why do you get so damn temperamental when anyone suggests that your form may be erred??

Sorry, but with what you've stated, form inconsistency is the only answer that makes sense.

YOU eliminated arrow/BH/insert combinations yourself...sometimes the combination flies well, sometimes not.

YOU & YOUR PRO SHOP eliminated anything wrong with your bow.

That only leaves 2 things---your release and your form.

You shoot fieldpoints with no problems, so that eliminates your release.

To give you a personal example---I could shoot 2 inch groups at 20 yards, but was canting the bow to the left. It didn't produce any appreciable torque, but the string was smacking me square in the left forearm. With broadheads, my groups spread to 8 inches. A little self-diagnosis and I proceeded to fix the problem (which was my grip)---which eliminated the repeated form problem.

However, now if I revert back to that grip after shooting 40 arrows (which can happen due to lack of concentration), the same problem resurfaces, and is random.

Same thing can happen if you look up from your sight at the target JUST before you release--for me this always results in a low hit. For other guys, they may miss right/left etc., you get the idea. But it is still a random form problem, not mechanical.

As silentassasin stated, form problems don't have to be repeated, they can be random. Most are repeatable and easy to change---it is the random form problems that are hard to correct because it's hard to notice something that happens every 5th shot.

I'm not being a jerk, but god man go back over what you wrote and read it from an objective point of view.

I'm still wondering why & how your so convinced it's not form when you know the arrows can fly well for 20 shots and then something mysteriously &quot;bad&quot; happens to arrow flight.

Good luck,

Hope the new broadheads work. With that set-up you may want to try mechanicals, they fly more like fieldtips to begin with---email 5shot, he has some great info on mechanicals and their performance.

<font color=red>&quot;So your saying the most likely answer is that I have the skill and form to shoot tight groups out to 30 yards yet somehow randomly I just lose it completely and shoot with such bad form that a flyer that misses the mark by anywhere from 8&quot;--2' results?? Something that I can count on one hand that has happened with my field points in thousands of shots now occurs sometimes as often as 25%.&quot;</font id=red>

Seriously, yes...it happens. I used to shoot a LOT of upper-level paper tournaments. Shot a lot of 3D also. I've seen national champions, that could shoot 59 & 60-X 300 rounds routinely, put one off the five spot target and have no clue what just happened. I've seen top 3D pro shooters completely tank easy shots, and be left wondering how it happened.

It's the human part of archery. No one, no matter how good they are, will ever 100% eliminate the occasional flyer. The best of the best get to the point that they are all but non-existant...but it still happens. We're not shooting machines, we're people. As such we make mistakes. No shame in it at all.

BTW, about the broadheads. If you're not confident in them, you should switch to something else. Confidence in one's equipment is important, and if it's not there it's not there. I've had similar experiences with other heads, and I got rid of them. When you're sitting on stand, watching that deer come in, is no time to be wondering if your broadheads are up to the task.

JRW

atlasman, You don't happen to have a pic you can show us do you? Have you contacted Muzzy about this?

Bottom line - atlasman had a Muzzy head blow up on something it probably should not have blown up on. Why? Has Muzzy switched something this year on that model?

Let me copy and paste what &lt;b&gt;5 shot&lt;/b&gt; said about this.

&quot;Well, can a muzzy bend, you bet! can it bend on a tree root, yes it can. This can happen to any broadhead, but I suspect that you may have hit somthing a bit harder, and with those &quot;random flyers&quot; I would bet you have an arrow or two that is not setup perfectly, and it also sounds like you don't have enough fletching control. Are you using helical fletching of at least 4&quot; in length? I have bent and broken most every broadhead out there and I can tell you that Muzzys are some of the toughest made, as well as very accurate.&quot;

atlasman, I think people are hitting this from many angles. Some think this post is about poor Muzzy flight performance. Others question why you would go into the field with something you do not trust. Others think the main issue is something was defective with the head. I would like to hear what Muzzy says.

Now, my one nitpick...

You said &quot;I have NEVER been pleased with the flight consistency of these heads and they will be not be on my arrows any more.&quot;

Then why in tarnation were you using them in the field?

I'm glad you're switching heads and I would be curious as to what you decide to go with.

Good luck with the rest of your season.

Edited by - Merit on 11/04/2002 15:39:09

Hey atlasman, one more question.

Since you shoot your broadheads frequently, could this damage have occured before? Meaning, could you have stressed out this head and caused some unseen damage? Could this be a combination of factors and not just one tree root?

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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> In his original post, atlasman never asked for advice or help, he was simply sharing information about a hunting product that he thought might not be the best to use. This is something that a lot of us have done. Just because the product that he's talking about is very popular does not mean that we need to question his ability or credibility.

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I would question the credibility or ability of anyone that went into the woods with a setup that produced 8&quot; to 2' flyers 25% of the time. That's a 1 in 4 chance of wounding and loosing an animal and in my opinion that is unethical.

Protect your hunting rights, &quot;Spay or neuter a liberal.&quot;

DUDE!!!!IT AINT THE MUZZY!!!!! THATS ALL I SHOOT, LOOK FOR THAT ROCK!!!!!!

Tony Hericks

atlasman,

I shoot Muzzy's exclusively and haven't had a failure yet. Do you have a picture we could see? I'd like to see what part bent (honestly, I'm not questioning you!). Thanks.

Fact is, anything manufactured by man can produce a lemon once in a while.....even broadheads. Under the same scenario the hit may have bent any broadhead if the conditions were just right. I am not going to blast you Atlas, maybe the Muzzys aren't for you. That is why its so great to have so many choices, everyone of us is unique....nobody shoots the same.

I won't be changing, Muzzys perform for me. I get pinpoint accuracy right alongside my field points and the blood trail has been awesome within my experiences.