Drop away or fletching contact rests?
06-30-2006, 10:04 AM
#31
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Blissfield MI USA
Posts: 5,293
RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
I have used or set up virtually every type of rest out there at one point or another. I don't work at a shop, but have many friends that bring their bows to me to set up. And I like to tinker, I think have about 5 different rests in my tackle box right now.
I don't care for the WB, but it has nothing to do with how it functions, I just don't care for how it adjusts is all. I like rests with a bit more tuning capability and easier adjustments. Other than that the WB has to be the most simple rest on the market next to a flipper rest or shooting off the shelf. If I did spot and stalk type hunting I would seriously consider this rest.
I personally don't feel a drop a way is the purest form of releasing an arrow. Sure they do good job of getting an arrow off with no contact. Providing you have them set up correctly with the right fletchings. I have seen a ton of drop a ways that have fletching contact though because they were not set up correctly. The people just assumed that since they had a drop a way that problem was solved. Every bow I have put a drop a way on required me to adjust the knocking point and tweek the tune on the bow.
The other problem with drop a ways is there are too many myths surrounding them. Too many think they are more accurate and let you get a way with more things as far as form goes. This is simply not the case. Most are actually more critical of form because they add an overdraw to your bow. And they are still susceptable to torque issues because the arrow is going to go where it is pointed at full draw, regardless of what type of rest you have. A drop a way is not going to change that fact. Almost all shots that get messed up get messed BEFORE the shot, not during. You just don't know it. And if your drop a way is set up properly the arrow still rides on the rest while it is leaving, then the rest falls just in time for the fletchings to clear. Other wise your arrow would be dropping as it is launched. So the same chances to mess the shot up during the shot are still there, especially of you have a longer draw.
I have also never seen a drop increase speed, at least to a degree that a chrono is accurate. Same with a WB, I'm sure it slows the arrow down some, but not to and extent you would notice. Chronoes really are not accurate to 1 or 2 fps any way, so why worry about it. Now if you don't set them up correctly then they do cost you speed. Another thing I don't like about the WB is it is not very forgiving because it is a full cantainment rest. Not every one shoots the same, some need a slight high nocking point or slightly to the left of center rest adjustment, Maybe they slightly torque the bow at full draw? I actually prefere a high knock setting myself. If you don't shoot a WB right down the pipe you will have a hard time setting it up and will get a fair amount of friction and wear. It's a simply rest, but with simplicity comes draw backs I guess.
I personally like a good prong rest or blade type launchers. I currently have a bodoodle and love it. I also like the quicktune 3,000, and the better GFK rests like the 3-D rover and up. And they are even better with a blade on them. The best I have ever shot was with a cheap 20 dollar TM hunter prong rest. It was a pain to set up, but once they were set up they worked every time. The better prongs rests are just easier to fiddle with is all.
And with a properly set up prong rest or bodoodle type rest they work simular to a drop a way anyway. The force of the arrow leaving the bow pushes the prongs or blades down out of the way and comes back up when the arrow is gone. This is why spring tension is so important. Most have them set WAY too stiff. If you paper tune (I don't any more) and you have a tail high tear that you can't rid off no matter where your nock setting is chances are you spring is set too stiff (with a prong rest or simular). The arrow is pushing the rest down as it leaves, then it is bouncing back up and hitting the arrow again before it clears. This pushes the tail of the arrow up giving you the knock high tear even though you have a low knock setting. I have a seen a drop a way do it as well. The arrow was actually bouncing off the rest or shelf because the knocking point was so low or the rest was dropping too fast.
I will be honest though, I get some contact with my bodoodle, However I shoot feathers with a blade type rest so it doesn't effect my shot at all. I love this rest, it just plain works for me, and that is all that counts. I could cure the contact issue if I want to go to a smaller profile fletching, but I don't want to. In order to have one of the feathers clear my cables when I draw I get a slight amount of contact on one of the blades of my rest. A few years ago this would have drove me nuts, but the more I shoot the less I worry about stuff like this. As long as the arrow goes where I want it to I'm not really worried. I mean I know people shooting wooden arrows off the shelf with no sights and rest that are pretty darn accurate. I think some of compound guys worry a bit too much
. Archery is more mental than it is about the equipment.
This doesn't mean I don't like drop a ways, I do. I have a drop zone and a muzzy on my other bows. I like the muzzy the best. The drop zone is ok, I just don't care for the string on my cable is all.
It really just boils down to what you like in the end. What ever you feel most comfortable with is what you will shoot better with. If you shoot better when you switch rests, chances are it was either in your head, or you got this set up a bit better than the last one was. None of them are really any better than the others. They all do the same thing, just in a slightly different way is all.
And if you have trouble keeping the arrow on a rest, it isn't the rests fault. Your bow is either set up wrong, you are drawing too much weight, too much length, your form is wrong and/or you need to practice more. You should be able to draw your bow straight back smoothly without the arrow dropping off the rest. If you can't do that you have more problems than what rest you should use.
Just my opinions any way, and nothing more.
Paul
I don't care for the WB, but it has nothing to do with how it functions, I just don't care for how it adjusts is all. I like rests with a bit more tuning capability and easier adjustments. Other than that the WB has to be the most simple rest on the market next to a flipper rest or shooting off the shelf. If I did spot and stalk type hunting I would seriously consider this rest.
I personally don't feel a drop a way is the purest form of releasing an arrow. Sure they do good job of getting an arrow off with no contact. Providing you have them set up correctly with the right fletchings. I have seen a ton of drop a ways that have fletching contact though because they were not set up correctly. The people just assumed that since they had a drop a way that problem was solved. Every bow I have put a drop a way on required me to adjust the knocking point and tweek the tune on the bow.
The other problem with drop a ways is there are too many myths surrounding them. Too many think they are more accurate and let you get a way with more things as far as form goes. This is simply not the case. Most are actually more critical of form because they add an overdraw to your bow. And they are still susceptable to torque issues because the arrow is going to go where it is pointed at full draw, regardless of what type of rest you have. A drop a way is not going to change that fact. Almost all shots that get messed up get messed BEFORE the shot, not during. You just don't know it. And if your drop a way is set up properly the arrow still rides on the rest while it is leaving, then the rest falls just in time for the fletchings to clear. Other wise your arrow would be dropping as it is launched. So the same chances to mess the shot up during the shot are still there, especially of you have a longer draw.
I have also never seen a drop increase speed, at least to a degree that a chrono is accurate. Same with a WB, I'm sure it slows the arrow down some, but not to and extent you would notice. Chronoes really are not accurate to 1 or 2 fps any way, so why worry about it. Now if you don't set them up correctly then they do cost you speed. Another thing I don't like about the WB is it is not very forgiving because it is a full cantainment rest. Not every one shoots the same, some need a slight high nocking point or slightly to the left of center rest adjustment, Maybe they slightly torque the bow at full draw? I actually prefere a high knock setting myself. If you don't shoot a WB right down the pipe you will have a hard time setting it up and will get a fair amount of friction and wear. It's a simply rest, but with simplicity comes draw backs I guess.
I personally like a good prong rest or blade type launchers. I currently have a bodoodle and love it. I also like the quicktune 3,000, and the better GFK rests like the 3-D rover and up. And they are even better with a blade on them. The best I have ever shot was with a cheap 20 dollar TM hunter prong rest. It was a pain to set up, but once they were set up they worked every time. The better prongs rests are just easier to fiddle with is all.
And with a properly set up prong rest or bodoodle type rest they work simular to a drop a way anyway. The force of the arrow leaving the bow pushes the prongs or blades down out of the way and comes back up when the arrow is gone. This is why spring tension is so important. Most have them set WAY too stiff. If you paper tune (I don't any more) and you have a tail high tear that you can't rid off no matter where your nock setting is chances are you spring is set too stiff (with a prong rest or simular). The arrow is pushing the rest down as it leaves, then it is bouncing back up and hitting the arrow again before it clears. This pushes the tail of the arrow up giving you the knock high tear even though you have a low knock setting. I have a seen a drop a way do it as well. The arrow was actually bouncing off the rest or shelf because the knocking point was so low or the rest was dropping too fast.
I will be honest though, I get some contact with my bodoodle, However I shoot feathers with a blade type rest so it doesn't effect my shot at all. I love this rest, it just plain works for me, and that is all that counts. I could cure the contact issue if I want to go to a smaller profile fletching, but I don't want to. In order to have one of the feathers clear my cables when I draw I get a slight amount of contact on one of the blades of my rest. A few years ago this would have drove me nuts, but the more I shoot the less I worry about stuff like this. As long as the arrow goes where I want it to I'm not really worried. I mean I know people shooting wooden arrows off the shelf with no sights and rest that are pretty darn accurate. I think some of compound guys worry a bit too much
. Archery is more mental than it is about the equipment.This doesn't mean I don't like drop a ways, I do. I have a drop zone and a muzzy on my other bows. I like the muzzy the best. The drop zone is ok, I just don't care for the string on my cable is all.
It really just boils down to what you like in the end. What ever you feel most comfortable with is what you will shoot better with. If you shoot better when you switch rests, chances are it was either in your head, or you got this set up a bit better than the last one was. None of them are really any better than the others. They all do the same thing, just in a slightly different way is all.
And if you have trouble keeping the arrow on a rest, it isn't the rests fault. Your bow is either set up wrong, you are drawing too much weight, too much length, your form is wrong and/or you need to practice more. You should be able to draw your bow straight back smoothly without the arrow dropping off the rest. If you can't do that you have more problems than what rest you should use.
Just my opinions any way, and nothing more.
Paul
06-30-2006, 10:11 AM
#32
Typical Buck
Join Date: May 2005
Location: northern colorado
Posts: 749
RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
I am a novice, I have a lowly PSE typhoon and I use a trophy taker drop away. I kinda wish I had a WB due to the way it holds an arrow at any angle. I have never taken an animal with a bow but I can see that if you had to move around waiting for a shot you might lose the arrow from my drop away. I am elk hunting for the first time this year with a bow. We'll see. EJ
06-30-2006, 10:25 AM
#33
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: IOWA/25' UP
Posts: 7,145
RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
Don't worry about it. You will like the Trophy Taker for elk hunting as sometimes it requires long shots. My little kid here uses a Trophy Taker and he has no problems with arrows falling off.
HCH
HCH
06-30-2006, 11:04 AM
#34
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Almost Heaven. Boone Co. WV
Posts: 1,003
RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
I haveshot a W/B for about 4 years now and I would not consider another rest.
My goal for buying the W/B orginally was to eliminate any chance that the aarow would fall off while stalking or drawing. The W/B did exactly that. I had problems with it tearing up my fletchings last year for the first time since owning it. The problem was a tuning problem and cheap fletchings.
I would not consider a fall away rest simply because of too many moving parts that "could" fail. I will not use expandable Broadheads becasue of this too. I am just consertative or basic when it comes to my set up........... I think less is better.
My goal for buying the W/B orginally was to eliminate any chance that the aarow would fall off while stalking or drawing. The W/B did exactly that. I had problems with it tearing up my fletchings last year for the first time since owning it. The problem was a tuning problem and cheap fletchings.
I would not consider a fall away rest simply because of too many moving parts that "could" fail. I will not use expandable Broadheads becasue of this too. I am just consertative or basic when it comes to my set up........... I think less is better.
06-30-2006, 11:31 AM
#35
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,716
RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
Whisker Biscuit, like the TM, Dody, Bodoodle and other basic launchers, is largely maintenance-free, and that's why everyone likes it (not to mention the fact that it's a WHOLE LOT CHEAPER thana high-end dropaway.
My bow makes it to the proshop about once/year. I hate fooling with my bow, and I'd rather spend time scouting than waste it in the proshop. When I do shoot, it's in the yard or in the woods, and I like to make my adjustments at that time.
All my friends have dropaway rests, and for the most part they work ok, but on at least one occasion for each of them, their dropaways have failed or come out of adjustment due to external factors. Some of these rests have about a million hinges, knots, springs, screws, etc. Each one gets closer to failing with every shot. I've had quite a few offered to me for free, and I won't use them. If I can't adjust it easily at home, on my own time, I don't want it. I've seen those guys make WAY too many trips to the bow shop to fuss with their $120 dropaway rests, while my $45 springy prong-rest has gone 9 years maintenance-free.
The whisker biscuit is no-frills, bolt on, loctite into place and go. Trust me, the 1-2fps that you might lose because your vanes brush the whiskers, it's not gonna make any cognizable difference afield. I don't use a WB (doty rest), but I wouldn't be afraid to make the switch if I bought a new bow and wanted to try something new.
I guess if you hang around the proshop a lot, or don't mind fussing with things, a dropaway is the way to go. Personally, I think they're just another fad that will come and go (like overdraws, parallel limbs, punchcutters, non-wrapped carbon arrows, fiberglass arrows, crosshairsetc...)
Again, maybe I'm just old school. I've been at this for 13 years now, and it feels like 50. We keep continuouslygoing through the same hoops over and over again (fads, styles, the next big thing, etc.) but we always come back to the basics.
My bow makes it to the proshop about once/year. I hate fooling with my bow, and I'd rather spend time scouting than waste it in the proshop. When I do shoot, it's in the yard or in the woods, and I like to make my adjustments at that time.
All my friends have dropaway rests, and for the most part they work ok, but on at least one occasion for each of them, their dropaways have failed or come out of adjustment due to external factors. Some of these rests have about a million hinges, knots, springs, screws, etc. Each one gets closer to failing with every shot. I've had quite a few offered to me for free, and I won't use them. If I can't adjust it easily at home, on my own time, I don't want it. I've seen those guys make WAY too many trips to the bow shop to fuss with their $120 dropaway rests, while my $45 springy prong-rest has gone 9 years maintenance-free.
The whisker biscuit is no-frills, bolt on, loctite into place and go. Trust me, the 1-2fps that you might lose because your vanes brush the whiskers, it's not gonna make any cognizable difference afield. I don't use a WB (doty rest), but I wouldn't be afraid to make the switch if I bought a new bow and wanted to try something new.
I guess if you hang around the proshop a lot, or don't mind fussing with things, a dropaway is the way to go. Personally, I think they're just another fad that will come and go (like overdraws, parallel limbs, punchcutters, non-wrapped carbon arrows, fiberglass arrows, crosshairsetc...)
Again, maybe I'm just old school. I've been at this for 13 years now, and it feels like 50. We keep continuouslygoing through the same hoops over and over again (fads, styles, the next big thing, etc.) but we always come back to the basics.
06-30-2006, 12:31 PM
#36
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Blissfield MI USA
Posts: 5,293
RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
I have only had one drop a way have a problem and that was because I was constantly messing with it and I stripped out a few screws. ( I like to tinke and change my set up.) The company has since changed the design and the rest is built better.
The muzzy looks complicated, but it really isn't. There are only a few moving parts and they are big and rugged.
The drop zone, trophy taker and trap door rest are pretty simular to most prong rests as far as parts and design go. And the quicktunes are just prong rests on a hinge pretty much.
The WB is a bit better in that regard because is has no moving parts. However I don't know that it is any more rugged, because if you drop it it can still move or bend.
Paul
The muzzy looks complicated, but it really isn't. There are only a few moving parts and they are big and rugged.
The drop zone, trophy taker and trap door rest are pretty simular to most prong rests as far as parts and design go. And the quicktunes are just prong rests on a hinge pretty much.
The WB is a bit better in that regard because is has no moving parts. However I don't know that it is any more rugged, because if you drop it it can still move or bend.
Paul
06-30-2006, 04:52 PM
#39
Typical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Cedar Park, TX
Posts: 957
RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
Paul, I'm sure you have had those experiences with the WB but I have found it to be quite forgiving, almost to a fault where it can be out of tune and still shoot well. I would agree the basic model does not have enough adjustment for me but I have only used the deluxe model that has vertical and horizontal adjustment with mark lines. I have a Bodoodle pro which is a fine rest but hands down I prefer the WB as it is, at minimal, as accurate, contains the arrow, is quiet (at least using carbons), and is basically maintenance free once it is tuned.
06-30-2006, 06:36 PM
#40
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Blissfield MI USA
Posts: 5,293
RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
I didn't say it wouldn't shoot well. Just that if your arrow is not leaving perfectly straight thru the rest it will rub more is all. And if for some reason you were really knock high it might actually hit the ring.
I have never used one, just set a few up for others. I do like the newer version. And I will admit it is a great spot and stalk rest, but I wouldn't pick it for a target rest. I honestly have never had any problems with the arrow falling off when I shoot. So it would be a solution to a problem I don't have. And then I would probably go with a Muzzy and an arrow holder just as a personal preferance.
And all rests will shoot well when out of tune. Especially with field tips. A bow really doesn't need to be in tune to shoot well. That is purely a function of the archer and how well your form and release is. Having a better tune just makes it a bit more forgiving is all.
Paul
I have never used one, just set a few up for others. I do like the newer version. And I will admit it is a great spot and stalk rest, but I wouldn't pick it for a target rest. I honestly have never had any problems with the arrow falling off when I shoot. So it would be a solution to a problem I don't have. And then I would probably go with a Muzzy and an arrow holder just as a personal preferance.
And all rests will shoot well when out of tune. Especially with field tips. A bow really doesn't need to be in tune to shoot well. That is purely a function of the archer and how well your form and release is. Having a better tune just makes it a bit more forgiving is all.
Paul