Drop away or fletching contact rests?
06-29-2006, 04:06 AM
#12
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 7,876
RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
I'm sure cost is an issue as well as tuning. Biscuts are easy to put on and marketed well. Those that shoot them just love them and have taken many deer with them. I don't care for them, but what would the world be like with out them? I enjoy reading the on going debates over them.
Their perfect in every way according to some and then there's the hundreds of post where guy's have problems. Just amazing!
Their perfect in every way according to some and then there's the hundreds of post where guy's have problems. Just amazing!
06-29-2006, 05:11 AM
#13
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Posts: 2,981
RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
i use a drop away on my hunting bow, but not 3d or spot. if drop-aways were the end all be all for accuracy, arrow flight and reliability then the pro's would compete with them. the thing is - they aren't. what they are isthe latest fad. there are several reasons i'm considering bagging my drop away for this hunting season. one of them is creeping at full draw from an elevated position - unlikely i'll do it when staring down a deer - but possible. another is there is more going on than with a fixed position rest - and finally - like i said up top - they aren't more accurate, or more reliable, and they don't offer better arrow flight. they do get out of the way soexecution errors on the shot may be minimized. if you think your rest is more accurate than a tt spring steel - pick one up with the proper blade thickness and give it a test.
06-29-2006, 06:10 AM
#14
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: IOWA/25' UP
Posts: 7,145
RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
ORIGINAL: gibblet
i use a drop away on my hunting bow, but not 3d or spot. if drop-aways were the end all be all for accuracy, arrow flight and reliability then the pro's would compete with them. the thing is - they aren't. what they are isthe latest fad. there are several reasons i'm considering bagging my drop away for this hunting season. one of them is creeping at full draw from an elevated position - unlikely i'll do it when staring down a deer - but possible. another is there is more going on than with a fixed position rest - and finally - like i said up top - they aren't more accurate, or more reliable, and they don't offer better arrow flight. they do get out of the way soexecution errors on the shot may be minimized. if you think your rest is more accurate than a tt spring steel - pick one up with the proper blade thickness and give it a test.
i use a drop away on my hunting bow, but not 3d or spot. if drop-aways were the end all be all for accuracy, arrow flight and reliability then the pro's would compete with them. the thing is - they aren't. what they are isthe latest fad. there are several reasons i'm considering bagging my drop away for this hunting season. one of them is creeping at full draw from an elevated position - unlikely i'll do it when staring down a deer - but possible. another is there is more going on than with a fixed position rest - and finally - like i said up top - they aren't more accurate, or more reliable, and they don't offer better arrow flight. they do get out of the way soexecution errors on the shot may be minimized. if you think your rest is more accurate than a tt spring steel - pick one up with the proper blade thickness and give it a test.
HCH[/align]
06-29-2006, 07:52 AM
#15
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Posts: 2,981
RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
you know, if you're tired or freezing and have to hold the bow for a long time at full draw - and you creep forward a little bit - you're changing the way the drop times - and possibly its height depending on the bow you shoot. some bows need that drop away up at the last minute - and any creep can lower the rest a little.
most accurate, i don't know - probably a spring steel, gkf infinity, nap 3000 w/ lizard tongue - something like that.
then the issue of having something pulling on either your cable or your cable guard is something i forgot to mention. i think the muzzy takes care of this - and a couple other inertia launcher systems also.
i like drop aways, don't get me wrong - but i don't believe they are any better than most fixed position rests.
we got my employee a bow w/ a nap 360 on it. now that's a quiet, dependable rest w/ great accuracy. i may be looking into that for hunting. can't believe that rest. there is no sound, absolutely none from that rest.
most accurate, i don't know - probably a spring steel, gkf infinity, nap 3000 w/ lizard tongue - something like that.
then the issue of having something pulling on either your cable or your cable guard is something i forgot to mention. i think the muzzy takes care of this - and a couple other inertia launcher systems also.
i like drop aways, don't get me wrong - but i don't believe they are any better than most fixed position rests.
we got my employee a bow w/ a nap 360 on it. now that's a quiet, dependable rest w/ great accuracy. i may be looking into that for hunting. can't believe that rest. there is no sound, absolutely none from that rest.
06-29-2006, 09:21 AM
#17
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 4,679
RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
I may be using the whisker biscuit this year as well for my hunting rest. I like the muzzy zero effect NG, but honestly it is more money and I don't see myself getting anything out of it that a biscuit won't offer me for less money and with less moving parts. I don't care who you are, they are accurate enough for anyones hunting duties unless you are shooting at animals further than 50 yards, and the only reason I would use something else for target purposes is because of the slight amount of forgiveness I feel a spring steel blade offers over it. Using blazers through the whisker biscuit prevent fletching damage or wrinkling as well. I don't think any dropaway offers anything over a whisker biscuit other than coolness factor. When it comes to form and function, IMHO they will produce the same results, with more moving parts and more price on the dropaway. I recommend a biscuit on all hunting specific bows I sell as well, trust me I would love to sell everyone a higher dollar drop away and we do keep them in stock for guys that prefer them but when they ask me, I tell them for a hunting specific bow the biscuit works well.
This target was shot at the shop I work at (at our old location) by Jim Despart using a whisker biscuit. This target here would qualify a shooter to shoot in the finals at the vegas world championships every single year, and would probably be amongst the highest X counts as well. Jim did actually bring and shoot a biscuit equipped bow to Vegas on at least one occasion as well. Does this show you what this rest is capable of? People with average form, and average shooting scores would see no difference IMHO between any fallaway rest and a properly setup whisker biscuit.
Now on to what arrow rest is ultimately the most accurate and forgiving? I would agree also that a spring steel type rest is the most forgiving when used with a blade of the proper thickness. All of mycompetition bows have spring steel blades on them. I have a TT spring steel one hole rest on my Apex that I shoot indoors for 3 and 5 spot, as well as for 90 meter FITA competition. I have a GKF TKO Target with a fixed spring steel blade for my 3D bow. I shoot these because I feel that a spring steel type fixed blade of proper thickness at the proper blade angle absorbs a lot of the arrows oscillations upon release and dampens a lot of the energy that is suddenly transferred to an arrow upon release. They are so forgiving that Dave Cousins (probably the most dominant competitive archer ever) will actually tell you that fletching contact should not be a major concern and in seminars will actually put an arrow on a rest cock vane down to make direct contact with a spring steel rest to show you that this only affects point of impact at 90 meters by around 6-7". 99.99999999 percent of archers don't have the shot execution or limited range of movementto see a difference of 6-7" of group change at 90 meters.
So...............this year I will probably be using a biscuit for hunting, and I will continue to use spring steel type rests for competition. If you look on the bows of the majority of indoor spots shooters, field shooters, and FITA shooters where consistency is most critical you will see fixed position full contact spring steel type rests. You do see a lot more fall aways in the 3D crowd, however I don't see any benefit to a fallaway over a spring steel for competitive archery.
This target was shot at the shop I work at (at our old location) by Jim Despart using a whisker biscuit. This target here would qualify a shooter to shoot in the finals at the vegas world championships every single year, and would probably be amongst the highest X counts as well. Jim did actually bring and shoot a biscuit equipped bow to Vegas on at least one occasion as well. Does this show you what this rest is capable of? People with average form, and average shooting scores would see no difference IMHO between any fallaway rest and a properly setup whisker biscuit.
Now on to what arrow rest is ultimately the most accurate and forgiving? I would agree also that a spring steel type rest is the most forgiving when used with a blade of the proper thickness. All of mycompetition bows have spring steel blades on them. I have a TT spring steel one hole rest on my Apex that I shoot indoors for 3 and 5 spot, as well as for 90 meter FITA competition. I have a GKF TKO Target with a fixed spring steel blade for my 3D bow. I shoot these because I feel that a spring steel type fixed blade of proper thickness at the proper blade angle absorbs a lot of the arrows oscillations upon release and dampens a lot of the energy that is suddenly transferred to an arrow upon release. They are so forgiving that Dave Cousins (probably the most dominant competitive archer ever) will actually tell you that fletching contact should not be a major concern and in seminars will actually put an arrow on a rest cock vane down to make direct contact with a spring steel rest to show you that this only affects point of impact at 90 meters by around 6-7". 99.99999999 percent of archers don't have the shot execution or limited range of movementto see a difference of 6-7" of group change at 90 meters.
So...............this year I will probably be using a biscuit for hunting, and I will continue to use spring steel type rests for competition. If you look on the bows of the majority of indoor spots shooters, field shooters, and FITA shooters where consistency is most critical you will see fixed position full contact spring steel type rests. You do see a lot more fall aways in the 3D crowd, however I don't see any benefit to a fallaway over a spring steel for competitive archery.
06-29-2006, 09:29 AM
#19
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Central Minnesota
Posts: 676
RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
Rick James, good information. I just got the WB and spent a few nights experimenting to make sure everything was right on in terms of tuning, etc. and love it. But what I liked most about your post was that you don't pressure guys in to buying the fanciest/most expensive pieces of equipmentor pitch them as necessarily being the best because of it. The reason I shop at my local archery shop and the reason I will continue to, is the manager is helpful, has taught me many things, and shows me what I NEED to have to be successful and then offers what OPTIONS I have. Never ever pressures me and in the end, earns him more business because I keep going back time and time again.
06-29-2006, 09:30 AM
#20
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Cenral Illinois
Posts: 3,180
RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
I just went to the NAP Quicktune 2100 and really like it. Before that, I had used a Cobra Diamondback on my old bow. The Cobra was my first fall-away, and I don't think I'll be going back to fixed position. I am very happy with the fall away. I think you guys could argue about just about anything, as long as everyone agrees that whatever YOU have is the best. My wife shoots a biscuit and it shoots very good. Before the fall away, I had a golden key fixed position and it was good as well. Debating what is the most accurate rest possible is pretty much a dead-end.