HuntingBry

Lilhunter, who said trad is supposed to be easy? I would love to take up traditional archery and bowhunting, but I am not good enough yet. I think most guys here would agree that traditional takes more practice and commitment to be effective and if they don't they haven't tried it.

Fredbearfan, you bring up some excellent points, but I there is something we need to consider. In the past when we bought a bow, set the draw weight, bought corresponding arrows and then went and shot all seemed to be good. However, as time has gone on and technology and knowledge both grew problems became evident. Those same problems I'm sure existed with those old set ups, but we weren't aware that they were there so we didn't address them. For example, I highly doubt we were able to get good arrow flight shooting an arrow off of a rubber rest that simply adhered to the riser of the bow, but since we didn't know that this would have an adverse effect on our shooting it wasn't a known problem. I do believe that some of the "problems" that arise with set ups are manufacturer created to get archers to buy a new product, but on the other hand, many of the issues are real and should be addressed by the conscientious hunter/archer.

I am coming back around to the simpler is better mentality when it comes to taking gear into the field to hunt with. However, I still am very meticulous as to how that gear is set up and want it working to maximize my potential. IMO that should be the goal of every bowhunter when setting up their gear.

One negative that has come of all of this is that it gives bowhunters a margin of error in their own skills. They feel that these technological gadgets should make up for their lack of tuning, practice, form flaws, etc. and if it doesn't the gear is no good. I think that is what c903 may have been getting at (at least that is how I took it). Bowhunters today aren't taking the time to maximize their abilities to effectively take game with their gear and are using the gear as a crutch. Then when THEY screw up it's always, "stupid broadheads, damn arrows, rest must have moved on me" and on and on. I have fallen into this myself. I made a poor shot on a deer this year and got horrible penetration with a mechanical and thought, "maybe I should switch to fixed blade heads." When I found the deer (which I was lucky to have done) I saw that the shot was off the mark which resulted in the poor penetration. I checked my gear and it was hitting the mark, so it was me that screwed up and I wanted to scapegoat my gear.

I don't see the advances in technology as a bad thing as long as we don't use it as an excuse to not practice, tune, and prepare for the hunt. If we use it properly it is an advantage, if we don't we have nobody to blame but ourselves.

GForce

c903 - It was a good read.

And it looks like a thought provoking topic. I usually find myself looking for ways to make things simpler, sometimes it works, sometimes not.

After 30 years, I now tend to not place as much importance on the gear but enjoy what time I have to be in the woods.



GForce

Shoot often - Hunt always

Lilhunter

Hntbry

"the Simplicity of trad archery"...should be more like, the mystic of trad archery, cuz there isnt any simplicity in it at all! Just getting set up CORRECTLY can be a lesson in disaster that spans many moons in which may end in complete frustration or melt down!

but saying all these add ons makes one more efficent? I can kill just as good with my trad gear! More effective? come on, the majority of game killed is under 20 yards with ALL bowhunting gear! There are many more comments made in this thread alone that are almost cysts to the bowhunting world with the comments made!

but your right, it takes the dedication and commitment to get there! That's the fun part!

Its All About Attitude!!!

HuntingBry

Lilhunter, I don't think the term "simple" when applying to trad gear was meant with any malicious intent. And when you think about it trad gear is simpler. A stick, a string, maybe a fur rest, a quiver and an arrow. No wheels, or cables, or springs, or sights, or stabilizers, or vibrations dampeners. And you are right that in the right hands it can be just as effective as a fully rigged compound and at times more effective depending on who is behind the bow. However, you must admit that the average person will have to spend less time practicing and preparing with a compound than they would with a stickbow. Compounds are more efficient. If not, then everyone would still be shooting recurves and fiberglass arrows. This should not become a compound vs. stickbow debate because both groups have many archers/bowhunters that are very dedicated to the sport. Unfortunately, there are some that are not as dedicated and those are the ones we should concern ourselves with no matter what they shoot.

Lilhunter

hehe, dont get me wrong...this is definatly not a stickbow vs wheels of any kind of debate! They are only tools.

its the "terms" that are so loosely spoken that erk me the wrong way! Naw I aint mad...very few times am I in this place. Its kinda hard to convey in writing with no emotions or exspressions behind it....one thing I need to work on as a writer in the near future eh!

The equipment is simple, a stick a string. "Compounds are more efficient. If not, then everyone would still be shooting recurves and fiberglass arrows". I am sorry but I really disagree with this statement! It is EASIER but no more efficent in the bowhunters hand of the killing of game! This is the reason many bowhunters of today have switched. Less time, greater accuracy at long distance, but more so..MORE CONFIDENCE in themselves! The equipment is very capable of anything any set of wheels can do my friend, that has been proven. Its the NEED TO KILL WITH MINIMAL WORK! The hype from the industries showing big racks if you shoot MY bow or my Bh! I am sure you see where I am going. Watch what you say and how you word it for it is here, where we can become seperated! And as you know, once that happens, its all over but the cryin! The choice of equipment is a personal decision in which my thoughts are only for me! It is how one holds themselves when they consider themselves bowhunters or archers, that I care about greatly!

Your last sentence is what I am getting at. The archery and more importantly BowHUNTING world has blind eye'd itself for much to long! It's finally seen that many are not going to stand for it....may the path being taken, be straight and true!

Edited by - Lilhunter on 11/01/2002 15:47:44

HuntingBry

Lilhunter, I think you and I are definitely on the same side of the line on this issue. I think you can agree with this statement that I had made.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>And you are right that in the right hands it (trad gear) can be just as effective as a fully rigged compound and at times more effective depending on who is behind the bow. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

This statement that you made is what I meant when I said compounds were more efficient just in different words.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>This is the reason many bowhunters of today have switched. Less time, greater accuracy at long distance, but more so..MORE CONFIDENCE in themselves! <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

I guess by efficiency, I meant efficiency in becoming familiar and accurate with your gear, not efficiency in taking game. It sounds to me like you and I both have a deep love for bowhunting and are very committed to it, but we have chosen different tools to use in our ventures. With that, the only thing left to be said to you is good luck the rest of this season and continue to spread the love of bowhunting, becasue we know it is contageous.

Iowa Monsterbuck

I'm new to bowhunting so I don't have the perspective that many of the veterans have. I've never shot anything but a compound bow (those plastic things in gym class don't count!)so I can't judge how much harder or easier traditional gear is to use and maintain.

I do know that one of the differences today is that people just don't have as much time as they did years ago to devote to becoming proficient with traditional gear. Hunters today, myself included, benefit from the advances in equipment that allows us to shoot once a week or every other week and still have the proficiency to hit a target the size of a deers vitals 90+% of the time at 30 or 35 yards. I've shot guns for years and it was a minimal amount of adjustment for me to go to the peep sight and sight pins on a modern compound. Many of the same principles I learned as a child concerning shooting form and technique with a gun carry over to my bow.

As far as &quot;state of the art&quot; I do agree that many of the latest and greatest innovations are not neccesary to take deer. My first bow was a Hoyt Raider that I bought in the early 90's. It had two wheels, no cams and I shot Easton aluminum arrows. Last year I bought a Hoyt Magnatech with a Redline cam and it shoots carbon arrows at blazing speed. I pulled my old Raider out just before the season to shoot it once more and had been thinking of selling it. I shot BETTER groups at 20 yards with it and the eastons than I do with my new bow.

That's not to say that I don't like my new bow. As the distances increase my new bow is more reliable and more forgiving of range estimation errors. Still, I doubt that I will ever sell my old bow, I will probably keep it as a permanent back-up bow. One day I will pull that old bow out of the closet and take it into the woods and it will send the arrow that harvests a deer and I will take a special pride in that moment.

I can understand the motives behind traditionalists and I admire and respect their choice, but in turn I deserve their respect in the way I have chosen to hunt. We are both bowhunters, just as much as the flyfisherman wielding a modern flyrod and the panfisherman holding a cane pole are both fishermen. What's in heart is what matters.

nmaineron

Things change,we change and adapt.We can sit here 20 years from now and discuss the very issue over again.If you played golf 20 years ago and were to compare the changed you would have the same results.

I believe that the new equipment has kept bowhunting alive.It has brought us to this age and compliments the complexities of modern life.

Hunting in its own right has changed,which will be the life blood of the industry.When it is no longer expedient to pack up and go hunting,which I feel is the bigger issue,the changes will reflect the times.

I hear it in every aspect of my life,Oh,The good ole days.The reality is that they are here for most of us and when we get old and fuzzy we will be able to reflect and say &quot;Remember when Mathews came out with the Legacy&quot;

Straightarrow

c903,

I agree with most of what you said. I started my bowhunting 32 years ago with a recurve. I killed many animals with it for 11 years, before I switched to a compound (the recurve broke). Killing animals never seemed very difficult with the recurve. Hit 'em in the lungs and they were dead. No fancy gadgets of any kind. Basically, a stick, a string and an arrow. I remember when I first put cat whiskers on the string. I thought that was high tech.

For me, killing big game hasn't gotten any easier over the years, but then I always approached hunting with the philosophy of, &quot;He who gets closest, wins.&quot; Being a good shot never even occurred to me as being necessary. My first six animals were shot within 10 yards and after that only one was shot past 15 yards and that was an elk at 17 yards. With a compound, my longest shot has been 23 yards. How much hight tech do you really need if you're able to get close to your quarry?

If hunting ever turns into, &quot;How far out can it be before I can't shoot?&quot;, then I'm likely to quit. That's the rifle game and I don't care for it. You see, for me the whole thrill is getting personal with the animal. I want to see it's breath, hear it's footsteps on wet leaves, and see it's nostrils move as it tests the wind. I'm most proud when I get a 3 or 4 yard shot. It means I did what I was supposed to do, which is become invisible to the deer. For me, the accuracy thing is only fun or necessary when I'm shooting at paper.

Maybe I could sum up my feelings this way. Given the choice between successfully making a 60 yard heart shot on a running deer or or getting a 3 yard broadside shot on a standing deer, I'll take the close shot every time. It's far more exciting for me to have the deer right next to me. Making a long distance shot gives me little thrill.