Looks like Kansas is taking a page out of the IL CWD Control Handbook. [X(]

http://www.joplinglobe.com/story.php...23086&c=87

That's not good one bit. Just another way for politics to liberalize the deer hunting. In the 2004 season Kansas did a lot of testing for CWD in basically every county with hundreds of deer. It seemed as if the western countries were of the most concern due to the check stations. This year they did away with a lot of the testing since they all came back negative. CWD will sure take a twist for Kansas deer Hunting.

This brings up a discussion. What will this do to tags allotted per region, or even state? What will it do in terms of banning baiting? How may this change the debate over NR tags? Or will it not have any effect at all.. I know it's too early to answer the questions, but they're all items which can and may be effected.

I don't see the problem. They need to test to see if it is wide spread or not. Taks care of the problem before is spreads east towards my hunting.

Greg, my comments were as much a spin off from other CWD discussions we have had, previous CWD situations as they were about your post specifically. I used you because your thoughts are similar to many others in the past, and you said it without the negativity we have seen...again, in the past.

As for usages...most of the pics you see in magazines, calenders and books are from enclosures. I know the animals, sometimes by farm names, from many of them. You already said you dont use natural lures or urine, but thats another. Most of the calls are developed by studying captive deer. I can name names here too. As for research, man, where do I even start? Leonard Lee Rue studied from Fred Space in NJ, and Joe Taylor in Pa. Dr. Bubenik had the captive herds at Guelph University in Ontario. Dr. John Ozoga uses the Cusino facility in Michigan. Theres Texas A&M, Georgia, and so many others. Much of what you read as research has been conducted in enclosures. Thats magazines as well as textbooks. Vocalizations, photoperiodism, reproduction cycles, antler growth, deer management, the list is almost endless.

Most videos you can buy nowadays, with some exceptions, of course, are filmed in large enclosures. Some dont care for it, I know, but its what it is.

The latest research in controlling blue tongue, EHD, is being done with captive herds. It was once believed that once deer showed the syptoms of EHD, that it was irreversible. We now know better. Theres a very large scale program going on now with many states rearing deer for research with assistance from specific universities for CWD being sent to Colorado. Its from private captive herds. I am not at liberty to name names here, but trust me its ongoing.

Poorly run enclosures will always be the industries blackeye. Folks only knowing a small bit of bad info is often just as bad. Those who depend on the deer industry are of course, like me, quick to defend it. But we who are responsible, and most of us are, would be as quick to pull the plug if it were truly wrong. Unfortunately, most dont believe that...

Here a good read on CWD! I would say good but.....

CWD's risk to humans might be greater than thought

Thanks Bill, that was informative and there are some uses from which I've bennifitted without knowing. You are right... all it takes is one bad apple to spoil the bunch. Its the careless operations that concern me. Somehow, these operations need some kind of policies and proceedures in place to eliminate the "bad apples"before any damages can't take place. Another thing that concerns me is all these hobby farms that I see when I drive around that have exotic species roaming the premises. You know, zebras, gazelles, camels, unicorns and others. What kinds of problems can these non-native species bring with them?

Greg, thanks for the opportunity to discuss this with you. I usually run into the "he-man" types that flat out hate every form of hunting theyre not familiar with. Some of what I type in these forums is fact, and much of it is simply my opinion. I hope youll find both worth reading.

In our deerfarming industry, we have governing bodies such as state game and fish dept. (which arent always so above board) and veterinary boards, as well as NADEFA, our own group. We are largely self regulating for obvious reasons, to protect the farm and the animals. You and I have both seen the footage of some half drugged exotic animal cowering under a vehicle while some out-of-place "hunter" tries to circle the vehicle to flush out his "game". Thats what a true canned hunt is by definition. The naysayers, of course, will aggressively counter that ANY hunt where the animal eventually runs into a fence is canned too. I remind them of Texas, Africa, their own pond, the place they place and shoot pheasants, etc etc. If its not for the guy, fine, lets move on. But for the sake of arguing, there ARE differences.

Most deerfarmers start out for the love of the animal. Most want to build a bigger buck, so to say, by studying genetics and lining out a particular trait. In the ideal situation, culls as well as successful big bucks are going to find an end usage. The big boys go to stud, like any other livestock venture. Semen is drawn, and they do live breeding too. But sooner or later they are replaced, and they along with culls, are sold to hunting operations. Bulls are sent to slaughter, cows are butchered, its how it goes with hoofstock. The big difference is that most of us get herky jerky when we see the propaganda.

I know of so many beautiful farms where theres big acreage, with everything as natural as youd want it. They breeding program improves the quality and size of the game much like a fish hatchery. When animals are needed to be brought in, theyre put into smaller enclosures to acclamate them to their surroundings, then re-released.

Now, with so many groups trying to shut down this industry, THEY are making the black eyes I mentioned earlier. Due to ignorance and jealousy, groups have pressured state agencies to control game farms. This control sometimes includes how a person can legally operate. That cause many to go "underground" so to speak, and operate outside of the law and healthy practices. They feel they have no other choice. Thats what sucks. We do it above board, with respect for the animal, yet we are judged by all based on those few.

Im not trying to justify what we do really, or make you guys enclosure hunters. But, based on its overwhelming demand its obviously widely accepted. Those who dont care for it get a mouthfull of the bad apple and speak against it. I cant change those minds.

Getting back to your last question, though...I have mixed feelings on the mixed species farms. Yes, if there werent any code of ethics (there is) or any controls (there are) with regards to importation and housing, there couldve been trouble. Almost all farms like these require veterinary inspection. Im way too lazy to type outall of what I have to do just for deer. TB monitoring, lots of veterinary work done by vets and me, and CWD monitoring. For example, could you imagine having a litter of puppies, and having the state tell you that you need to put down a certain percentage of the litter for testing? Remember, the CWD test is post-mortem. Thats how we have to operate if we dont have the means to physically immobilize every animal for year-end CWD monitoring, tag reading and animal IDing.

In many instances, exotic farms with non-native species have actually SAVED some threatened species. Dick Cabela can list instances where this has happened historically. Here in NY state where CWD was found due to taxidermy waste, they believe, testing has been ongoing. To date, since May theyve tested some 8,000 deer...with no positives.

In closing, those guys who argue over things like crossbows, or early seasons, or fences, or any other topic concerning different usages within the broad spectrum that is hunting are going to take exception to every word I say, even though I threw in my many disclaimers. The intelligent man recognizes for himself which types of usage he chooses to use, and either tolerates or ignores those he doesnt, all for the common interest. He smartly realizes that fighting within the ranks is the surest way to insure defeat.