Question of ethics...."First light"
12-16-2005, 11:29 AM
#42
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,469
RE: Question of ethics...."First light"
If you have a tag for both, and you are positive that you can make an accurate and clean shot on the animal, by all means, shoot. Just make sure you post the pictures. Good luck.
12-16-2005, 12:28 PM
#43
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 262
RE: Question of ethics...."First light"
After reading your descriptions of the situation it seems obvious that it isNOT ethical to take this shot. It's not a question of legality since you have tags for both sexes. The problem is with making a clean shot and quick recovery. If it is too dark to tell if it has antlers within 20 yards then it is too dark toshoot. Like TeeJay said, how are you going to see exactly where your arrow hits if you can't even see if it has antlers? How will you know which direction it ran after the shot? Many times a deer does not bleed a lot right away and that last visual sighting can be an extremely important part of the recovery. You said that hitting a twig is not an issue but people hit twigs all the timeeven in broad daylight. No one thinks they are going to hit a twig yet it does happen. Those of us who hold the highest level of ethics do absolutely everything in our powers to make the quickest kill and recovery as possible.
You mentioned that you are a new bowhunter and I think that is another reason to wait until you have better light. Shooting an arrow at a live animal can be difficult especially until yougain some experience. To make the most accurate shot possible we need to focus on a small area or "pick a spot" as many people say. Sounds to me like you can barely make out the outline of the deer which again is not helping to make the most humane shot.
Many times I climb down from my treestand 5 to 10 minutes before legal shooting time ends because it is just too dark to make an ethical shot. This year with a full moon in early November I actually felt comfortable sitting until legal shooting time ends more times than normal. I have a hunch that if you are seeing deer that often right before daylight then it should not be that hard to get within range of one after daylight with some strategy and patience.
You mentioned that you are a new bowhunter and I think that is another reason to wait until you have better light. Shooting an arrow at a live animal can be difficult especially until yougain some experience. To make the most accurate shot possible we need to focus on a small area or "pick a spot" as many people say. Sounds to me like you can barely make out the outline of the deer which again is not helping to make the most humane shot.
Many times I climb down from my treestand 5 to 10 minutes before legal shooting time ends because it is just too dark to make an ethical shot. This year with a full moon in early November I actually felt comfortable sitting until legal shooting time ends more times than normal. I have a hunch that if you are seeing deer that often right before daylight then it should not be that hard to get within range of one after daylight with some strategy and patience.
12-16-2005, 01:46 PM
#44
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Blissfield MI USA
Posts: 5,293
RE: Question of ethics...."First light"
How does the level of light effect whether he will cripple and lose the deer? I have seen many do that in bright sunlight? You don't need to see every detail of an animal in order to put the arrow in a lethal spot. The kill zone is pretty large. I have shot 3-D targets in the dark with no problems putting the arrow where it needs to be.
I have never seen this guy shoot and niether have you. Don't just assume that because you can't shoot in low light others can't. If you can see the pin and the target you should be able to hit. Hell if your good enough you don't even need to see the pin that well. Then again I have practiced shooting in low light.
It's almost like you hope this guy messes up just so you will be right. What I nice notion.
Paul
I have never seen this guy shoot and niether have you. Don't just assume that because you can't shoot in low light others can't. If you can see the pin and the target you should be able to hit. Hell if your good enough you don't even need to see the pin that well. Then again I have practiced shooting in low light.
It's almost like you hope this guy messes up just so you will be right. What I nice notion.
Paul
12-16-2005, 02:04 PM
#45
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Wadena, MN
Posts: 4,701
RE: Question of ethics...."First light"
ORIGINAL: Blodg
After reading your descriptions of the situation it seems obvious that it isNOT ethical to take this shot. It's not a question of legality since you have tags for both sexes. The problem is with making a clean shot and quick recovery. If it is too dark to tell if it has antlers within 20 yards then it is too dark toshoot. Like TeeJay said, how are you going to see exactly where your arrow hits if you can't even see if it has antlers? How will you know which direction it ran after the shot? Many times a deer does not bleed a lot right away and that last visual sighting can be an extremely important part of the recovery. You said that hitting a twig is not an issue but people hit twigs all the timeeven in broad daylight. No one thinks they are going to hit a twig yet it does happen. Those of us who hold the highest level of ethics do absolutely everything in our powers to make the quickest kill and recovery as possible.
You mentioned that you are a new bowhunter and I think that is another reason to wait until you have better light. Shooting an arrow at a live animal can be difficult especially until yougain some experience. To make the most accurate shot possible we need to focus on a small area or "pick a spot" as many people say. Sounds to me like you can barely make out the outline of the deer which again is not helping to make the most humane shot.
Many times I climb down from my treestand 5 to 10 minutes before legal shooting time ends because it is just too dark to make an ethical shot. This year with a full moon in early November I actually felt comfortable sitting until legal shooting time ends more times than normal. I have a hunch that if you are seeing deer that often right before daylight then it should not be that hard to get within range of one after daylight with some strategy and patience.
After reading your descriptions of the situation it seems obvious that it isNOT ethical to take this shot. It's not a question of legality since you have tags for both sexes. The problem is with making a clean shot and quick recovery. If it is too dark to tell if it has antlers within 20 yards then it is too dark toshoot. Like TeeJay said, how are you going to see exactly where your arrow hits if you can't even see if it has antlers? How will you know which direction it ran after the shot? Many times a deer does not bleed a lot right away and that last visual sighting can be an extremely important part of the recovery. You said that hitting a twig is not an issue but people hit twigs all the timeeven in broad daylight. No one thinks they are going to hit a twig yet it does happen. Those of us who hold the highest level of ethics do absolutely everything in our powers to make the quickest kill and recovery as possible.
You mentioned that you are a new bowhunter and I think that is another reason to wait until you have better light. Shooting an arrow at a live animal can be difficult especially until yougain some experience. To make the most accurate shot possible we need to focus on a small area or "pick a spot" as many people say. Sounds to me like you can barely make out the outline of the deer which again is not helping to make the most humane shot.
Many times I climb down from my treestand 5 to 10 minutes before legal shooting time ends because it is just too dark to make an ethical shot. This year with a full moon in early November I actually felt comfortable sitting until legal shooting time ends more times than normal. I have a hunch that if you are seeing deer that often right before daylight then it should not be that hard to get within range of one after daylight with some strategy and patience.
Amen brother!!!!!!!!!!! Enough said!!!!!!!!!!
12-16-2005, 02:27 PM
#46
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location:
Posts: 1,927
RE: Question of ethics...."First light"
I had a situation like this where a deer kept moving under my stand before legal shooting light. Drove me crazy. In my situation I couldn't even see him but I could hear him. It was in a swampy area with a lot of tall cane-break (bamboo looking plant about 3-4" tall). I kept hoping he'd hang around long enough one morning to get a good look at him. I couldn't move further back because of property lines.
In your case I think it boils down to can you make a good shot. I know I shoot BETTER in low light. I instinctive shoot and when I practice in low/no light I have to concentrate even harder and tend to dovery well. Beingable to confirm where you hit is an issue though and I've started to adjust my thinking as far as taking a low light shot with bow because, even though I know I can hit him accurately Ihave no way of visually confirming my hit. I think you hit on the answer by saying youmay move your stand back a little farther. (Hey, how about a trail cam?) I think you thought the sex may be an issue but I think you've decided either way it's a nice big-bodied deer you wouldn't mind taking.
Hope to see pics.
In your case I think it boils down to can you make a good shot. I know I shoot BETTER in low light. I instinctive shoot and when I practice in low/no light I have to concentrate even harder and tend to dovery well. Beingable to confirm where you hit is an issue though and I've started to adjust my thinking as far as taking a low light shot with bow because, even though I know I can hit him accurately Ihave no way of visually confirming my hit. I think you hit on the answer by saying youmay move your stand back a little farther. (Hey, how about a trail cam?) I think you thought the sex may be an issue but I think you've decided either way it's a nice big-bodied deer you wouldn't mind taking.
Hope to see pics.
12-16-2005, 03:43 PM
#48
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Blossvale, New York
Posts: 21,199
RE: Question of ethics...."First light"
If I can't see,... I don't shoot. If I can't see my pins I don't shoot. IF I can see to make a shot and identify my target(all aspects like $ex, size etc) I'll shoot. I don't care what time it is. But, since I'm a woods hunter(detest fields) it's always legal shooting time by the time you can see. I practice at VERY last light every year in the back yard. I've found that something with the lighting, shaded peep from the riser or something always shifts late hour shots a tad to the side. I just hate a bad hit and long night time tracks. I usually get down while I can still see to walk out without a light, or at least get to the ground and packed up by dark. I used to hang in the tree until it was too dark to see the ground. A couple long night time tracking jobs cured me of that. Too many deer and they're to easy to kill to push the envelope.
