Question of ethics...."First light"
12-15-2005, 11:46 AM
#1
Dominant Buck
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Join Date: Oct 2005
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Question of ethics...."First light"
I know the right answer to this question.....but I'm going to ask, anyways.
I have a "Deer" that's coming into my set when it's.....let's just say.....not exactly "LIGHT" yet. It's not dark.....but the sun's definitely not up. I can make out the outline of the deer VERY well.....but I'm unable to make out antlers (or lack thereof). This deer has come in on me a few times....and it's a BIG deer. It always leaves within a few minutes.
Now....I can make out this deer's entire body.....just no antlers visible (I have a buck tag). Is it unethical....OR....unLAWful for me to take this deer?
I don't mind getting preached to.....because I haven't done aynting wrong. I'm simply asking what you guys would/might do?
Thanks
jeff
I have a "Deer" that's coming into my set when it's.....let's just say.....not exactly "LIGHT" yet. It's not dark.....but the sun's definitely not up. I can make out the outline of the deer VERY well.....but I'm unable to make out antlers (or lack thereof). This deer has come in on me a few times....and it's a BIG deer. It always leaves within a few minutes.
Now....I can make out this deer's entire body.....just no antlers visible (I have a buck tag). Is it unethical....OR....unLAWful for me to take this deer?
I don't mind getting preached to.....because I haven't done aynting wrong. I'm simply asking what you guys would/might do?
Thanks
jeff
12-15-2005, 11:53 AM
#2
Dominant Buck
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Join Date: Oct 2005
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RE: Question of ethics...."First light"
Let me also say this.....
If my set was on the edge of a field.....and the deer was in the field.....there's NO DOUBT it would be "first light". I hear shots (nearby)before I see this deer, every time. My set is back in the woods.....and it gets light later, there.
If this helps.....
Jeff
If my set was on the edge of a field.....and the deer was in the field.....there's NO DOUBT it would be "first light". I hear shots (nearby)before I see this deer, every time. My set is back in the woods.....and it gets light later, there.
If this helps.....
Jeff
12-15-2005, 12:10 PM
#3
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Blissfield MI USA
Posts: 5,293
RE: Question of ethics...."First light"
There are specified listed times for legal shooting in every state. If it is before legal shooting hours then it is illegal, period. As far ethics goes that really depends on who you are. If it is in legal hours of hunting and you can positively identify it as a deer and don't trophy hunt I don't see a problem with it. As long as you have tags for both kind of deer. Not everyone cares how big the rack is on a deer.
Now if you were looking for a quality deer to mount and only had a buck tag it wouldn't be a real great idea.
Paul
Now if you were looking for a quality deer to mount and only had a buck tag it wouldn't be a real great idea.
Paul
12-15-2005, 12:18 PM
#4
Dominant Buck
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Join Date: Oct 2005
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RE: Question of ethics...."First light"
Hey...I appreciate the reply.....and I'll ask this:
If posted "sunrise" is 7:15.....according to the laws on the books....I can take that deer @ 6:45.
Well....I've seen days that were overcast.....that I couldn't see my hand in front of my face at 30 minutes before sunrise. I've also seen times when you could hunt WAY before that set time.....due to the moon's phase.
I have NO DOUBTS that this is a deer. Period. Here...in NC...where I live....antlers don't get that big (mass). My ONLY question is....is this a BIG doe...or a BIG buck. That's all that's in question. If I have a tag for both.....I think I should be able to take this deer. I really wanted to hear what some of you would do. Let's say I'm within the time frame set forth by NC laws.......but I still can't make out antlers, or not.......am I "OK"?
Jeff
If posted "sunrise" is 7:15.....according to the laws on the books....I can take that deer @ 6:45.
Well....I've seen days that were overcast.....that I couldn't see my hand in front of my face at 30 minutes before sunrise. I've also seen times when you could hunt WAY before that set time.....due to the moon's phase.
I have NO DOUBTS that this is a deer. Period. Here...in NC...where I live....antlers don't get that big (mass). My ONLY question is....is this a BIG doe...or a BIG buck. That's all that's in question. If I have a tag for both.....I think I should be able to take this deer. I really wanted to hear what some of you would do. Let's say I'm within the time frame set forth by NC laws.......but I still can't make out antlers, or not.......am I "OK"?
Jeff
12-15-2005, 12:30 PM
#5
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Posts: 7
RE: Question of ethics...."First light"
Are there antler resitrictions in NY, ... if so i wouldn't even risk it....especially if you can't ID the antlers.
Thats all you need is to shoot a spike over 3 inches
I wouldn't shoot it
Just my .02
Thats all you need is to shoot a spike over 3 inches
I wouldn't shoot it
Just my .02
12-15-2005, 12:54 PM
#6
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: land of the Lilliputians, In the state of insanity
Posts: 26,274
RE: Question of ethics...."First light"
Well you know the answer. If it were me and I knew his/her pattern, I get out of the tree and set up else where or stalk the big guy. If you got his pattern down, he would be an easy stalk.
12-15-2005, 12:56 PM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,358
RE: Question of ethics...."First light"
Two things to consider:
1) If you have to decide the antler/no antler issue, and you can't, then it would be unethical to shoot, in my opinion. What are you going to do if it needs antlers and then doesn't?
2) ESPECIALLY with a bow, if its to dark to tell antlers, its probably to dark to see the pin against the deer to accurately aim. With that little available light, I doubt the fibre optics are glowing yet and add in reduced light when looking through the peep, I doubt you could aim. Now with a rifle, all this changes, if you have a decent scope, but with a bow.....
1) If you have to decide the antler/no antler issue, and you can't, then it would be unethical to shoot, in my opinion. What are you going to do if it needs antlers and then doesn't?
2) ESPECIALLY with a bow, if its to dark to tell antlers, its probably to dark to see the pin against the deer to accurately aim. With that little available light, I doubt the fibre optics are glowing yet and add in reduced light when looking through the peep, I doubt you could aim. Now with a rifle, all this changes, if you have a decent scope, but with a bow.....
12-15-2005, 01:04 PM
#8
Dominant Buck
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Join Date: Oct 2005
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RE: Question of ethics...."First light"
Well....I ONLY bow hunt. (And guys I sincerely appreciate the discussion)
My only problem is....as someone mentioned.....light through the peep. My fibre optics have a light.
There are no antler restirctions in NC.
Guys....believe me when I say this IS a DEER.....lol. I can make out its' outline....its' head''''its' legs......it's tail.....I just can't tell if it has antlers or not. I WILL be moving my stand closer than I've ever been, Saturday.....and this may solve all my problems. I would NOT shoot at the body of this (or any) animal without knowing I could sight where I wanted to.
Someone told me once.....that "ethics" meant doing the right thing.....when even the WRONG thing wasn't illegal. I try to always think of that. I DO know that this IS a deer, though.....and I have a tag for either sex......and a new freezer.
Again ....I appreciate the discussion.
Jeff
My only problem is....as someone mentioned.....light through the peep. My fibre optics have a light.
There are no antler restirctions in NC.
Guys....believe me when I say this IS a DEER.....lol. I can make out its' outline....its' head''''its' legs......it's tail.....I just can't tell if it has antlers or not. I WILL be moving my stand closer than I've ever been, Saturday.....and this may solve all my problems. I would NOT shoot at the body of this (or any) animal without knowing I could sight where I wanted to.
Someone told me once.....that "ethics" meant doing the right thing.....when even the WRONG thing wasn't illegal. I try to always think of that. I DO know that this IS a deer, though.....and I have a tag for either sex......and a new freezer.
Again ....I appreciate the discussion.
Jeff
12-15-2005, 01:27 PM
#9
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: North Lima Ohio & Clarion Pa
Posts: 6,453
RE: Question of ethics...."First light"
My opinion if it's too dark to distinquish Horns or not..it's too dark.
Last year (04)in Pa rifle season (In a 3 point on a side zone) I had a buck within 15 yards of me in an open field. It was legal shooting hours but the morning was overcast. It was a nice buck judging by the height and width of the rack. I could have assumed and been 95% confident that it was greater than a 6 point. I could have also easilymade the shot safely. In my humble opinion anything less than 100% when shooting (gun or bow) it's not worth it PERIOD.
Last year (04)in Pa rifle season (In a 3 point on a side zone) I had a buck within 15 yards of me in an open field. It was legal shooting hours but the morning was overcast. It was a nice buck judging by the height and width of the rack. I could have assumed and been 95% confident that it was greater than a 6 point. I could have also easilymade the shot safely. In my humble opinion anything less than 100% when shooting (gun or bow) it's not worth it PERIOD.
12-15-2005, 01:28 PM
#10
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Blissfield MI USA
Posts: 5,293
RE: Question of ethics...."First light"
If you have a tag for both and want meat in the freezer I say whack it. Providing you feel confident making the shot in that light.
Ethics are a personal thing, no one can impose thier ethics onto you, where as the law applies to everyone. If you feel comfortable doing it and it's legal do it. You are the one that has to live with your actions. Don't worry about what others think unless you are out to impress them.
Don't confuse ethics with political correctness or customs. Many people do drives and use buck shot. I personal don't like it. Those are my ethics, that doesn't mean those people are bad people or doing something wrong. It's just not something I would personally do for whatever reasons.
Paul
Ethics are a personal thing, no one can impose thier ethics onto you, where as the law applies to everyone. If you feel comfortable doing it and it's legal do it. You are the one that has to live with your actions. Don't worry about what others think unless you are out to impress them.
Don't confuse ethics with political correctness or customs. Many people do drives and use buck shot. I personal don't like it. Those are my ethics, that doesn't mean those people are bad people or doing something wrong. It's just not something I would personally do for whatever reasons.
Paul