I've read the let em grow thread for 14 pages and haven't found an answer to my question that I always have when listening to this debate. I'm on both sides of the coin on this one. Here's how I see it and maybe you can shed some light on my thoughts.

I am all for QDM and practice it now religously when I hunt. Here's the problem I have with it though and why I can see why people don't practice it. Here's 2 different scenarios that exist with me.

Parcel of land #1:
I've hunted this piece of land that is 200 - 300 acres since I started bowhunting 17 years ago. In my lifetime I have taken 1 what I considerbig rackeddeer out of there (meaning the biggest buck I've seen in the area through scouting and being in the woods in any given season). That was about a 130" buck which aint too shabby for my neck of the woods. Since then I've been fortunate enough tohave permission granted to hunt some pretty prime land where I usually get a chance or 2 a season at the same class deer (and higher)just about every season for the past 10 years.

Parcel of land #2:
The piece of land that I mentioned above that i focus a lot of my efforts on. The land is about 800 acres and has had QDM practice for a number of years before I even got there. A lot of good genetics and management going on there and all around that piece. If the program is stuck to will continue to produce big deer.

** The difference in #1 and #2 **
For me I love to hunt #1 because that's where I started and there is just something about that piece that I enjoy. The problem with #1 is there will hardly EVER be mature monster racked bucks roaming around due to the circumstances. 200 - 300 acres is hardly enough to effectively have a management program and sure is not going to happen on this land. This peice is surrounded by 4 other landowners and hunting groups and believe me QDM is the last thing on their minds. However I still go out there and still pass on several bucks throughout the season there because I enjoy going there and it's pretty much in my backyard so to speak. I like to take my kids there because they will always see deer. Sometimes i'll take a doe out of that piece.

At the same time I really love #2 because it produces some very nice bucks and I have a great chance to score big due to the management practices of our group AS WELL AS THE SURROUNDING PARTIES!! Little farther away to get to but well worth it.

My argument/queston:
How can some people on here come out and say if you're not a QDM/ "trophy" hunter you're not really a hunter? What if people only have the opportunity to hunt a piece of land like parcel #1 described above. Would you honestly like them to go sit in a tree for 20 years and watch buck after buck go by waiting for the 1 "trophy" per 2 decades to appease your personal agenda? To me that is ludicrous. It's plain and simple unless you have enough acreage to effectively manage the herd, it just aint gonna happen with every hunting group so let it be. So be it!! On the flipside if hunting parties did have the size land or bordering neighbors played by the same rules then I would suggest or question why they would'nt implement some kind of management practice to grow some bigger racks. Maybe not even then though.
Again I practice QDM and encourage it to everyone, but the reality is there are a lot of hunters that plain and simply don't have the chance to for a variety of reasons. I wish the whole hunting world would implement a program then we'd have 200" bucks roaming the woods everywhere[:-], but it aint gonna happen in anyones lifetime. Too many different parties involved and too many small chunks of land to make it happen. But for Gods sake let people enjoy hunting for their own reasons. If a basket rack 6 pointer brings you joy then shoot it and congrats to you. If nothing short of a 150" deer does it for ya.... so be it good luck to you too. If a tender doe and meat in the freezer is what you're out there for then that's great too. If just sitting in a tree taking in nature is what you're after....... that's wonderful. Too each their own and everyone enjoy hunting for whatever your personal reasons may be.

The only thing I will say is that there is a great deal of difference between a "trophy" deer and a "mature" deer. Trophies aren't everywhere for the reason you described. Mature deer on the other hand are a possibility anywhere deer are located. Mature deer are mature deer, regardless of genetics, supplemental feeding, etc. I would never suggest that a hunter only hunt for "trophy" deer, all I would like to see is hunters actually "hunting" (ie. spend some time looking) for mature deer.

By the time a buck has reached 3 1/2 - 4 1/2 years its overall antler characteristics aren't going to change much. At this point the hunter can make an educated decision as to the deers potential or lack of potential.

I dont care. All the time spent typing this ,you could of filed the freezer with venison

Well I am with you. Opening morning will find me on a small peice of land with a couple of buddies. neither of which worries about the size of the deer. There are also some "kids" that hunt the property next door. Again they are not concerned with QDM. On that land while bow hunting I will shoot deer, any legal deer for the freezer. The same goes for some national forest land I hunt. Now I have another peice of property that is a little differnt and I am more selective as to what I would shoot there, but again the points you made above apply to that property in that it gets little pressure and the potential is better for a deer to survive if I let him go.

i have practiced good managemene on all my properties . this doesnt mean i only shoot giant bucks. but i do shoot only mature does. i am serounded by ppl here who will not shoot a doe but will shoot every buck that walks. when i question them on shooting an 18 month old 3 point they say you cant eat the horns. my point being do the best you can ginen your situation . keep trying to educate the others especialy the kids management. i try not to kill any yearlings but in my neck of EAST TEXAS a 4 year old is a rare thing indeed. so i do kill some 3 year olds because they are the mature ones. so i say do the best you can and good luck to you.

Ok sounds good to me, do what ya want NY.

I agree with you a 100%.Like I said in that post when I posted in it.It is really up to the hunter as well as the situation of the property.If the buck is a good buck for that area then by all means shoot it.If you know there are some bigger bucks there and that is what you ae after then wait for one.It is up to each indivual hunter and there wants.WE cant expect to have every hunter out there only waiting on the monsters it will never happen.So shoot what you are comfortable shooting and what is realistically a good buck in your area.

The science and biology behind QDM works. Often people confuse QDM and trophy management, because they kind of sound like the same thing, but they are not. QDM is about managing for a BALANCED deer population. This means a balanced buck to doe ratio, a herd with proper age structure (in bucks and does), and a population which is in balance with the carrying capacity of the land. Now, this will produce more bucks with bigger racks, simply because more of the bucks are allowed to grow up, and doe numbers are kept in check, allowing more forage. QDM produces a healthy herd, larger antlers are a side benefit of older age structure. TROPHY management is often carried out at levels well under the carrying capacity of the land, which increases the amount of nutrition available for growing antlers. Trophy management is all about growing the largest antlers possible. Trophy management harvests bucks at 5.5+ years of age where QDM is often more in the 3.5 to 4.5 range depending on the goals of the manager.

For most folks none of this matters because they hunt small tracts where the neighbors don't practice QDM, or they hunt public land, or some other situation where QDM won't work. I like having bigger deer, won't make any bones about it. One of the places I hunt we are lucky and have neighboring landowners who feel the same way, and though we don't have official rules we are working to the same goals. Another place I hunt (or can, I don't go there much anymore) just breaks my heart. Used to have monster deer. Landowner doesn't care, and has it way overleased, hunters will kill anything with horns. The mature bucks have gone nocturnal and died of old age (they damn sure didn't kill them), younger age classes have been wiped out so there is nothing to replace the old monsters, and in 5 years the chance of killing a 140-150 or better has gone from possible to nonesistent. Yeah, I'm a proponent of QDM...

I also feel you should be able to hunt the way you want. Those guys who paid their money for the lease, they bought that right. I get to hunt it for free, so I don't say anything. Still breaks my heart though.