no peep
06-10-2002, 03:50 PM
#11
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,862
RE: no peep
Straightarrow:
When you stated: "The no-peep is not essential to accuracy," I was somewhat confused. If the device eliminates the string peep-sight and calibrates eye to sight-pin alignment via anchor point and bow grip, how can the device not be essential to accuracy?
If the device does not provide an eye to sight-pin alignment, what does? Granted, one can shoot fairly accurate using only a consistent anchor point and grip. However, if your head position is not consistent and locked, neither will your eye alignment to sight-pin be consistent. Therefore, your groups will not be as tight.
According to the information given about the "No Peep," the device (is) designed to be used for eye alignment in place of a peep sight or other eye aligning system.
Regardless, when something is working for you, you stay with it in spiute of opposing arguments.
Bees:
In my 44 years of bow shooting I have learned: 1) consistency is never a guarantee, and 2) it is often more than one condition that is affecting accuracy or consistent accuracy.
Invariably, by the time you identify what initially caused the original problem, you probably have made other adjustments to your form, your release, -and (maybe) to your gear, while trying to correct the actual problem. Catch 22. LOL
As for the "2 kisser button" system I use in place of a peep sight, first know: 1) I shoot off the side of my face using a release, and 2) regardless of my position (sitting, kneeling, or standing) in relation to the target (deer), my head remains level and static. All my rotation and bending is done at my waist and legs.
I use the large kisser buttons to compensate for when I am wearing a face-cover, and to avoid an unconscious plunging of my head to string to meet the buttons.
When my anchor is set where it is suppose to be, and my head is level, I set the first button so that the corner of my mouth (just) touches the button. Many shooters like to kiss the button nearer the front of their lips. In my opinion, if you shoot off the side of your face, making contact with the button towards the front of your lips causes you to lean too much into the string or turn your head too much.
Once I have established the position of the lip button, I tie it in securely.
I set the second button so that it firmly touches beneath the nostril of my (string side) nose. I make sure that the height of the nose button is positioned as to force me to keep my head level.
Using this system eliminates the need for a peep sight and consistently positions my head and eye. I shoot with both eyes open. Doing so increases the accuracy of alignment to pin.
You may hear some arguments about speed reduction due to added weight on string. You might lose 1 to 3 fps. But consider, for the sake of an exaggerated argument. Let's say your bow is only shooting 200 fps after your string is setup (most likely 230 to 240 fps). That is 200 feet in 1 second. Let's say you take a long shot of 30 to 40 yards. That is 90 to 120 feet. Break out your calculator. How fast would a standing or walking deer have to move to avoid getting hit?
Here is a once-in-a-lifetime example of how too much emphasis is put on excessive speed and radical power.
Using one of my bows: a 43 inch, 1992 vintage, standard wheel bow (Martin Firecat), 65 lb peak weight, Dacron string (Fast-Flite is too hard on limbs) attached to a teardrop cable, 2 kisser buttons securely tied in, a metal release loop and a metal nock aligner, a 31 inch 2314 shaft armed with a 125 grn head; I hit a side-running buck at 21 yards (63 feet) that was running full blower. I led the deer at the front of his shoulder. The arrow took him in the kill zone, took a rib, his heart, one lung, and broke his right shoulder. He went down within 50 yards from where he was hit.
I only consider shaft speed to be energy to calculate flatness of trajectory out to 30-35 yards using one pin.
When you stated: "The no-peep is not essential to accuracy," I was somewhat confused. If the device eliminates the string peep-sight and calibrates eye to sight-pin alignment via anchor point and bow grip, how can the device not be essential to accuracy?
If the device does not provide an eye to sight-pin alignment, what does? Granted, one can shoot fairly accurate using only a consistent anchor point and grip. However, if your head position is not consistent and locked, neither will your eye alignment to sight-pin be consistent. Therefore, your groups will not be as tight.
According to the information given about the "No Peep," the device (is) designed to be used for eye alignment in place of a peep sight or other eye aligning system.
Regardless, when something is working for you, you stay with it in spiute of opposing arguments.
Bees:
In my 44 years of bow shooting I have learned: 1) consistency is never a guarantee, and 2) it is often more than one condition that is affecting accuracy or consistent accuracy.
Invariably, by the time you identify what initially caused the original problem, you probably have made other adjustments to your form, your release, -and (maybe) to your gear, while trying to correct the actual problem. Catch 22. LOL
As for the "2 kisser button" system I use in place of a peep sight, first know: 1) I shoot off the side of my face using a release, and 2) regardless of my position (sitting, kneeling, or standing) in relation to the target (deer), my head remains level and static. All my rotation and bending is done at my waist and legs.
I use the large kisser buttons to compensate for when I am wearing a face-cover, and to avoid an unconscious plunging of my head to string to meet the buttons.
When my anchor is set where it is suppose to be, and my head is level, I set the first button so that the corner of my mouth (just) touches the button. Many shooters like to kiss the button nearer the front of their lips. In my opinion, if you shoot off the side of your face, making contact with the button towards the front of your lips causes you to lean too much into the string or turn your head too much.
Once I have established the position of the lip button, I tie it in securely.
I set the second button so that it firmly touches beneath the nostril of my (string side) nose. I make sure that the height of the nose button is positioned as to force me to keep my head level.
Using this system eliminates the need for a peep sight and consistently positions my head and eye. I shoot with both eyes open. Doing so increases the accuracy of alignment to pin.
You may hear some arguments about speed reduction due to added weight on string. You might lose 1 to 3 fps. But consider, for the sake of an exaggerated argument. Let's say your bow is only shooting 200 fps after your string is setup (most likely 230 to 240 fps). That is 200 feet in 1 second. Let's say you take a long shot of 30 to 40 yards. That is 90 to 120 feet. Break out your calculator. How fast would a standing or walking deer have to move to avoid getting hit?
Here is a once-in-a-lifetime example of how too much emphasis is put on excessive speed and radical power.
Using one of my bows: a 43 inch, 1992 vintage, standard wheel bow (Martin Firecat), 65 lb peak weight, Dacron string (Fast-Flite is too hard on limbs) attached to a teardrop cable, 2 kisser buttons securely tied in, a metal release loop and a metal nock aligner, a 31 inch 2314 shaft armed with a 125 grn head; I hit a side-running buck at 21 yards (63 feet) that was running full blower. I led the deer at the front of his shoulder. The arrow took him in the kill zone, took a rib, his heart, one lung, and broke his right shoulder. He went down within 50 yards from where he was hit.
I only consider shaft speed to be energy to calculate flatness of trajectory out to 30-35 yards using one pin.
06-10-2002, 05:18 PM
#12
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,413
RE: no peep
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
When you stated: "The no-peep is not essential to accuracy," I was somewhat confused. If the device eliminates the string peep-sight and calibrates eye to sight-pin alignment via anchor point and bow grip, how can the device not be essential to accuracy?
If the device does not provide an eye to sight-pin alignment, what does? Granted, one can shoot fairly accurate using only a consistent anchor point and grip. However, if your head position is not consistent and locked, neither will your eye alignment to sight-pin be consistent. Therefore, your groups will not be as tight.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
I hope I can explain this properly. The no-peep has nothing to do with the sight pins. It's a device that will indicate when everything is in the correct position. Even the slightest movement of the head, anchor or grip will show up on the no-peep. However, shooting your bow does not require that you look at it or use it during the shot. If you are confident that your head position, anchor and grip are where they should be, then there is no reason to look at the no-peep and it can be kept to the periphery of your field of view. Once you make the exact correct grip and anchor a thousand or so times, it becomes much easier to draw to the correct spot with the same grip, even when not using the no-peep. This is why I say it's not essential to accuaracy - at least not on any given single shot. Hope that makes some sense.
When you stated: "The no-peep is not essential to accuracy," I was somewhat confused. If the device eliminates the string peep-sight and calibrates eye to sight-pin alignment via anchor point and bow grip, how can the device not be essential to accuracy?
If the device does not provide an eye to sight-pin alignment, what does? Granted, one can shoot fairly accurate using only a consistent anchor point and grip. However, if your head position is not consistent and locked, neither will your eye alignment to sight-pin be consistent. Therefore, your groups will not be as tight.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
I hope I can explain this properly. The no-peep has nothing to do with the sight pins. It's a device that will indicate when everything is in the correct position. Even the slightest movement of the head, anchor or grip will show up on the no-peep. However, shooting your bow does not require that you look at it or use it during the shot. If you are confident that your head position, anchor and grip are where they should be, then there is no reason to look at the no-peep and it can be kept to the periphery of your field of view. Once you make the exact correct grip and anchor a thousand or so times, it becomes much easier to draw to the correct spot with the same grip, even when not using the no-peep. This is why I say it's not essential to accuaracy - at least not on any given single shot. Hope that makes some sense.
06-12-2002, 12:26 PM
#16
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,862
RE: no peep
Bees:
Just like when your vehicle will not start. First, check to see if all your plugs are firing. Check the basics before changing anything major.
If you sight with one eye, have you ever checked to see if your dominant eye is reverse of the eye you sight with? I know of shooters, bow and firearms, that shot for years before discovering their dominant eye was reverse.
One factor often responsible for problems of consistent anchor and sighting, is the draw length of the bow is too long for the shooter's form. The draw length of a compound bow should never be based on the draw length of your arrow. It is better that draw lengths be shorter than longer. I can pull an arrow draw length of 31-1/2". My compound bows are set for 30" draw length. You do not want a bow to "stack" on you, but neither should you be able to pull your string and scratch the back of your head at the same time.
Another common problem is that many bow shooters strive to match their shaft to a certain peak weight of their preference. Some shooters will spend great time and effort, and much money, and make many gear changes and gear adjustments trying to get that shaft to fly right. Pick a shaft that has a range of peak weights you will settle for. Now dial in your bow and gear settings until the shaft is flying true. Now check your peak weight. It might be less or greater than you wanted.
Using the same shaft; I have one bow that ended up with a peak weight of 6 pounds less than the shaft is suppose to handle. Another bow ended up with a peak weight of 3 pounds less than the shaft is suppose to handle. Both bows are very accurate.
Before all the radical designs were introduced into bows and equipment, one knew that the shooter caused 95 percent of the shooting problems. Not any more. Many bows and bow gear of today are so radical, they will never shoot with much accuracy or consistent accuracy. Additionally, such bows and gear will not last long before breaking down; and often the breakdown will be catastrophic.
I could spend days pointing out the MAJOR disadvantages of short bows, extremely light bows, radical cams, overdraws, full-split limbs, wrap-around string systems vs. teardrop systems, low brace heights. etc.
Something that bow shooters will have to accept, these days, is he or she may have a bow they will never be able to achieve accuracy or consistent accuracy. Sometimes the bow can be brought under control by removal or changing of some components i.e. grip, overdraw, lowering of peak weight, etc.
Just for giggles, you should start a new thread in the "Technical" forum regarding the problems your having. Start by describing your complete bow system.
Just like when your vehicle will not start. First, check to see if all your plugs are firing. Check the basics before changing anything major.
If you sight with one eye, have you ever checked to see if your dominant eye is reverse of the eye you sight with? I know of shooters, bow and firearms, that shot for years before discovering their dominant eye was reverse.
One factor often responsible for problems of consistent anchor and sighting, is the draw length of the bow is too long for the shooter's form. The draw length of a compound bow should never be based on the draw length of your arrow. It is better that draw lengths be shorter than longer. I can pull an arrow draw length of 31-1/2". My compound bows are set for 30" draw length. You do not want a bow to "stack" on you, but neither should you be able to pull your string and scratch the back of your head at the same time.
Another common problem is that many bow shooters strive to match their shaft to a certain peak weight of their preference. Some shooters will spend great time and effort, and much money, and make many gear changes and gear adjustments trying to get that shaft to fly right. Pick a shaft that has a range of peak weights you will settle for. Now dial in your bow and gear settings until the shaft is flying true. Now check your peak weight. It might be less or greater than you wanted.
Using the same shaft; I have one bow that ended up with a peak weight of 6 pounds less than the shaft is suppose to handle. Another bow ended up with a peak weight of 3 pounds less than the shaft is suppose to handle. Both bows are very accurate.
Before all the radical designs were introduced into bows and equipment, one knew that the shooter caused 95 percent of the shooting problems. Not any more. Many bows and bow gear of today are so radical, they will never shoot with much accuracy or consistent accuracy. Additionally, such bows and gear will not last long before breaking down; and often the breakdown will be catastrophic.
I could spend days pointing out the MAJOR disadvantages of short bows, extremely light bows, radical cams, overdraws, full-split limbs, wrap-around string systems vs. teardrop systems, low brace heights. etc.
Something that bow shooters will have to accept, these days, is he or she may have a bow they will never be able to achieve accuracy or consistent accuracy. Sometimes the bow can be brought under control by removal or changing of some components i.e. grip, overdraw, lowering of peak weight, etc.
Just for giggles, you should start a new thread in the "Technical" forum regarding the problems your having. Start by describing your complete bow system.
