HMMMMM!!! sounds kinda funny because I used to shoot rifled slugs through a full choke in my mossberg 500 was my first gun and only gun at the time and that was how i deer hunted for my first 3 seasons before i got a rifle.

Can you specify what milling process they use exactly?? I highly doubt green mountian and T/C are using a new barrel making technique. I guarentee they are using one of the few standards of rifle barrel manufacturing most likely button rifling.

The standards for rifle barrel manufacturing is cut rifling which I guarentee no ML company uses because the process takes about an hour to punch out one barrel.

The next is button rifling which is how more then likely most ML companys make their barrels.

The next is hammer forging which is the way BPI makes there barrels though they dont say it that way, its the standard for europes barrel making process, you call BPI products junk but remington,sako, tikka, H&K,steyr, and sauer all use hammer forged barrels and i'd hardly call any of those rifles junk!!!

I have a couple questions where are all these BPI muzzle loaders that are supposedly blowing up all the time and all over the place??? that I have never seen or heard of??? as far as I can tell all your quote facts are merely just speculation, if you can show some good hard solid evidence that BPI muzzle loaders are so horridly dangerous other then just a proofing mark on the barrel then maybe I'll take you seriously.

Are you through talking to yourself?

Yes, I'm Randy Wakeman. Who are you?

No, CVA / BPI barrels are not made in the same factory as A & H.

Why would you be aware of any of these cases?

Your assumption that BPI guns are hammer-forged is incorrect.

Your assumption (or guarantee) that no muzzleloading barrels have cut rifling is incorrect.

There is no standard for cut rifling in SAAMI barrels-- see Dan Lilja.

Austin & Halleck does not get their barrels from CVA.

What other misinformation do you have to offer?

Wait a minute, don't put words down I never used. I never once said they where junk. You just made that up. GO back and reread what I wrote. I said do your homework and make up your own mind. Knowledge is what you use of it. You take the potential pros and cons and you must weigh them in order to what you feel is valid and of importance. Then make up your own mind. Thats all I said. I personally like I said ealier wouldn't buy a BPI product but it is not just because of this one issue. Enough people have complained about the hard trigger pull to more than justify not buying one alone. I've handled a couple of BPI products just to check the triggers and I decided I don't want to play trigger roulette. Gee do I get a good one or don't I. As for BPI according to there web site they are using and cold forging method which yields a barrel with rifling in a single process which means they are using an extrusion technique. They could be extruding the steel at temperatures any where from room temp to a few hundered degrees. The method they use I would guess follow for the process would go something like this where a chemically lubricated bar slug of steel is forced into a closed die under extreme pressure. The unheated metal then flows into the desired barrel shape die. During this process the cylinder is formed and rifling is included in the barrel all in a single step process. Now whether they are using a forward or rear extrusion technique I don't now but I would guess its a forward extrusion technique. Now it certainlly differs from using a button technique where they take a barrel blank slightly smaller than the caliber expected and ram the button down blank. Now with Hammer forging your taking about taking a nearly 2-inch-diameter bar of steel about 12 inches long with a hole through its center, and hammering it until it, elongates it into a tube of the desired length. It usually ends up having a muzzle diameter less than one-third of what it was originally. All three methods then would have to be releived for stress. I would agree with you on one point that being most muzzleloaders probably are not using a cut or "hook" rifling technique since they tend to be time consuming and more expensive. Maybe Randy can tell us what manufactures use what techniques and shed some more light on the subject.

Polychoke, set on full + rifled slug = ruined barrel and choke.

well ...... the post didnt specify if it was a poly choke, fixed choke or screw in choke. now that being mentioned that it was a poly choke it makes more sense now.

Randy wakeman,

To introduce myself I am Tony Battista, From my experience of working as a machinist I assumed that BPI uses the hammer forging technique since from the sound of their barrel making technique description, hammer forging sounds the closest to what they were explaining... also I never said A&H get their barrels from CVA................. I simply stated they are made in the same plant that also happens to be contracted by BPI, which I cant say im completely sure about since its just hearsay I heard from a friend who shoots both A&H and CVA's. Hmmm Hearsay which is what your claims are anyway...... One thing I do know for a fact is BPI barrels and A&H barrels have the same proofing mark on them which according to you that proofing mark makes BPI guns unsafe so basically that would make A&H's unsafe too?, according to your theories and speculations. But according to you A&H are perfectly safe and are ok to shoot. All your ideas and speculation about BPI guns is entirely based on the proofing mark which A&H has the same mark, but are OK...... you make no sense.... What is your deal what do you have against BPI guns??? Once again I will ask where are all these BPI guns that blow up all the time???? Also since you are such the expert I would love to know what ML company uses cut rifling?? The reason I know your name is because I’ve read several of your posts in the past. and to tell you who I am I'm the guy who wants solid evidence from you that shows BPI guns are unsafe. I have been shooting CVA and traditions muzzle loaders for nearly 15 years and have never had any such problem you claim that BPI products have or will have because of their proofing mark......

eddie_v21
You asked a perfectly legitimate question. I have read every reply so far and if there were any real answers to you question, I must have missed it.

The easiest way to explode a blackpowder rifle is to use Smokeless Powder instead of Blackpowder, or an approved black powder substitute.

Another way to explode a black powder rifle is to not fully seat the projectile on the powder. If that person who exploded his rifle bringing in the New Year hadn't cleaned his rifle since he shot it last new year, his chances of getting his projectile all the way down the barrel were probably slim at best. The more air between the powder and the projectile, the more trouble you will probably be in.

Then, there is the overcharging method of blowing up a black powder rifle. This is where too much powder is poured, and the projectile is actually seated on the charge. This is probably the hardest way to blow up a gun, although I consider it entirely possible.

Add alcohol to the mix, and it will only help insure the integrity of the human gene pull.

I have shot black powder rifles since the early 80's. I consider it a perfectly safe sport that I share with my family. Know the do's and don’ts of your particular rifle, and use your head. You will be fine.

I personally have not heard many occasions.

C. Davis

Advice and opinions should be taken just as such. Nothing anyone says is chisled in stone. I find it hard to believe any company could stay in business for very long if they made such dangerously inferior products. It would be very hard to prove whether a "blown barrel" was caused by inferior steel, manufacturing process, or rifling process. Or whether someone had simply not followed the loading instructions and blew up the gun due to carelessness. If someone wants to come on here and make a name for himself, then so be it. Just don't expect everyone to follow you over the cliff like a bunch of Lemmings.