sales
12-31-2004 | 09:57 AM
#21
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,922
Likes: 0
RE: sales
The shooter was Muzzleloading Guru/Author Toby Bridges. He was employed by Savage/Henry Ball as their field tech. Part of his job was to test ML components/accessories. Part of his job (part 2) was to find out the extreme limits in bore pressures. In my opinion, this did not happen recently. In my opinion (part 2), Toby was not attached to that rifle when it was fired. All this was made public AFTER Toby received notice from Savage/Balls that his job was being terminated.
Your opinion(s) may be the exact opposite of mine. The only one that knows the truth is unhurt/unscratched/unscathed/unpowder-burnt Mr. Toby Bridges. All those "uns" I listed above is quite a remarkeable feat when you look closely at the rifle damage. There is a possiblity that Toby fired the rifle wearing armored facial/body protection. Perhaps he didn't. But his termination does give him reason/motive for revenge. Hhmmmmm
Your opinion(s) may be the exact opposite of mine. The only one that knows the truth is unhurt/unscratched/unscathed/unpowder-burnt Mr. Toby Bridges. All those "uns" I listed above is quite a remarkeable feat when you look closely at the rifle damage. There is a possiblity that Toby fired the rifle wearing armored facial/body protection. Perhaps he didn't. But his termination does give him reason/motive for revenge. Hhmmmmm
12-31-2004 | 01:33 PM
#22
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,802
Likes: 0
From: Coralville, IA. USA
RE: sales
Oh Jesus, here we go again! The ignorant and biased painting the Savage with a broad brush based on ONE incident of failure where the circumstances are unknown and the motives are suspect.
First of all, Lil' Gun is NOT a recommended powder for use in the Savage 10ML-II, at least it's not in my manual. Secondly, Toby Bridges admittedly and repeatedly used loads that were well in excess of the published and tested loads Savage endorses for the rifle. He also publicly endorsed the use of "duplex" loads (mixing two different powders together). Bridges was also in the middle of a monetary dispute with both Savage and the Ball's about his purpose and compensation. When Savage decided stick to its guns (pun intended) and not allow themselves to be blackmailed by Bridges, suddenly one of Bridges 10ML-II's suffers a catastrophic failure that happened months before it was made public by Bridges, I might add. Seems to me Bridges intentionally blew that gun up and was using the pictures to blackmail Savage, and only published them AFTER Savage told him to go **** himself.
It's my opinion, based on the evidence I've seen, that Bridges is a worthless, lying, egotistical, s***bag who blew his gun up in an effort to make a buck and/or in revenge for Savage not paying him what he thought he was worth because he continously tested and endorsed using loads that Savage did not.
Here are some links where you can read up on the Savage 10ML-II/Toby Bridges issue:
http://forum.hunting.net/asppg/tm.as...age=1&key=10ml (Of note, 1SHOT_1KILL is Bill Ball, who if I'm not mistaken is the son of the 10ML's designer, Henry Ball).
http://randymagic.tripod.com/savage.htm
http://dougva.proboards34.com/index.cgi?board=Savage
And among the most interesting links:
http://www.angelfire.com/mech/wolfho...ls/savage.html
Which includes the following email sent to Henry Ball by Bridges well after Bridges 10ML-II was blown up but BEFORE he went public.
That's what I'd call MOTIVE.
As for the 10ML-II, I own one (that is identical to the one Bridges intentionally blew up) and have shot many rounds through it with smokeless powder exclusively without a single problem. I use a powder that is among those recommended by Savage and is within the max load guidelines provided by Savage (40.5 grains of Vhita-Vouri N110 with a 300 grain Hornady SST-ML at 2200fps). This load is well within the max for this powder (which is 45.0 grains) and meets or exceeds the performance of all but the hottest loads using T7. I see no reason to try to exceed this level of performance, nor do I see the need to endanger myself or others with reckless attempts to make the 10ML-II exceed its designed levels of performance like Bridges regularly did. The gun is of the finest quality of any muzzleloader I've seen except, perhaps, the T/C Encore which is based on a smokeless design. For that price I wouldn't hesitate to pick up another 10ML-II. Even if you can't hunt with smokeless powder, the 10ML-II is still better than most of the other inlines out there today in terms of features, quality and function.
Mike
First of all, Lil' Gun is NOT a recommended powder for use in the Savage 10ML-II, at least it's not in my manual. Secondly, Toby Bridges admittedly and repeatedly used loads that were well in excess of the published and tested loads Savage endorses for the rifle. He also publicly endorsed the use of "duplex" loads (mixing two different powders together). Bridges was also in the middle of a monetary dispute with both Savage and the Ball's about his purpose and compensation. When Savage decided stick to its guns (pun intended) and not allow themselves to be blackmailed by Bridges, suddenly one of Bridges 10ML-II's suffers a catastrophic failure that happened months before it was made public by Bridges, I might add. Seems to me Bridges intentionally blew that gun up and was using the pictures to blackmail Savage, and only published them AFTER Savage told him to go **** himself.
It's my opinion, based on the evidence I've seen, that Bridges is a worthless, lying, egotistical, s***bag who blew his gun up in an effort to make a buck and/or in revenge for Savage not paying him what he thought he was worth because he continously tested and endorsed using loads that Savage did not.
Here are some links where you can read up on the Savage 10ML-II/Toby Bridges issue:
http://forum.hunting.net/asppg/tm.as...age=1&key=10ml (Of note, 1SHOT_1KILL is Bill Ball, who if I'm not mistaken is the son of the 10ML's designer, Henry Ball).
http://randymagic.tripod.com/savage.htm
http://dougva.proboards34.com/index.cgi?board=Savage
And among the most interesting links:
http://www.angelfire.com/mech/wolfho...ls/savage.html
Which includes the following email sent to Henry Ball by Bridges well after Bridges 10ML-II was blown up but BEFORE he went public.
That's what I'd call MOTIVE.
As for the 10ML-II, I own one (that is identical to the one Bridges intentionally blew up) and have shot many rounds through it with smokeless powder exclusively without a single problem. I use a powder that is among those recommended by Savage and is within the max load guidelines provided by Savage (40.5 grains of Vhita-Vouri N110 with a 300 grain Hornady SST-ML at 2200fps). This load is well within the max for this powder (which is 45.0 grains) and meets or exceeds the performance of all but the hottest loads using T7. I see no reason to try to exceed this level of performance, nor do I see the need to endanger myself or others with reckless attempts to make the 10ML-II exceed its designed levels of performance like Bridges regularly did. The gun is of the finest quality of any muzzleloader I've seen except, perhaps, the T/C Encore which is based on a smokeless design. For that price I wouldn't hesitate to pick up another 10ML-II. Even if you can't hunt with smokeless powder, the 10ML-II is still better than most of the other inlines out there today in terms of features, quality and function.
Mike
12-31-2004 | 02:38 PM
#23
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,922
Likes: 0
RE: sales
Nice post Mike! I'm almost certain that Bill Ball is Henry's brother.
I also agree that even Jesus is tired about reading all this unwarranted Savage barrel controversy. I don't own the smokeless Savage, but it does rank #1 in ML barrel strength amongst all manufacturers since it's SAAMI-approved due to it's smokeless capabilities.
I also agree that even Jesus is tired about reading all this unwarranted Savage barrel controversy. I don't own the smokeless Savage, but it does rank #1 in ML barrel strength amongst all manufacturers since it's SAAMI-approved due to it's smokeless capabilities.
