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What is a Crud Ring & need help again

Old 12-16-2004, 03:49 AM
  #1  
Typical Buck
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Default What is a Crud Ring & need help again

What is a crud ring? 20%? My Traditions Centennial 2000 is giving me fits.. It is 2” groups at 50 yards and 10” at 100yards. I have tried 2 – 50gr 777 pellets, 2 50 gr Pyro pellets. From some posts here from Cayugad I think I went tp 80gr using pyro 50 & 30 pellets., Same problem. I followed various cleaning and swabbing from posts also. Back to crud ring. When I push the Sabot down the battle there is a several inch 6” or so I think where it is considerably more difficult to push. Is this a crud ring. Howe do you get rid of this. I always have this area no matter how I clean. Also what should the condition of the sabots be after firing. I have been shooting Hornady 240gr sabots. I just bought some shockwaves I am going to try. Another point I rezeroed and cleaned the other day soapy water, bore brush, Traditions bore cleaner, than I ran a Traditions butter patch followed by several dry patches and loaded up for the hunt. The sabot was very very hard to jam down the barrel. Now I was stuck with may be a bad round or a lot more cleaning to get ready. Luckily I didn’t get a shot at a deer. I unloaded at the 100 yard target and miss the whole target. What do ya think. By the way going out of town for a few weeks so I may not get back to ya fore a while. Thanks in advance
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Old 12-16-2004, 09:47 AM
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Default RE: What is a Crud Ring & need help again

I think you may have some plastic fouling also causing your problem. You need to really clean the barrel. I would suggest (some will not agree so you decide) trying to clean the bore with a solvent for plastic. After that and you are pretty sure the barrel is clean. I am guessing that you have only shot sabot bullet combinations. You may have some initial rough portions in the barrel from initial machining that could cause the plastic fouling to be worse than it usually is so; here is the part that some people will not agree with. I had similar problems but mostly with 777 fouling in my rifle. I got some JB bore paste and put a brass brush on a heavy cleaning rod put a patch on the brush and load it with the paste. Make several full length passes up and down the barrel. Do about 25 to 30 up and down and reload the patch with paste. Keep this up for at least 100 passes. Change patches as the patch looks bad and after all this re-clean the barrel with a strong solvent dry and either oil for protection if you can't shoot right away or try loading and shooting again.
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Old 12-16-2004, 11:42 AM
  #3  
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Default RE: What is a Crud Ring & need help again

That is some crud ring if that is what is really happening. I agree with MLKeith, start from scratch and I mean from a very clean barrel. You need to get some solvent. I use Birchwood Casey Bore Scrubber or Butches Bore Shine or M.A.P., but there are others out there. As long as they remove plastic, copper, and lead fowling. Then you need to get a good bore brush and scrub that barrel clean as clean can be....

I am going to say this, but many will disagree...Leave the bore butter out of the barrel. Bore Butter is a great conical and patch lube. Yes I know there are thousands out there that use bore butter with no problems. But you have a problem and it could be the bore butter, then again it might not be, so lets check everything. I personally never had any luck with bore butter as a barrel protector, and I do not lube a barrel to get a sabot down it.. The sabot is wrong for the barrel so you need to look at other sabots..

After you have got that barrel really clean put a high quality gun oil in the barrel. REM OIL or Birchwood Casey Sheath, even Breakfree CLP is a good protector. After you oil up the barrel set it muzzle end down with a paper towel under it for a couple hours and let any excess oil drain back out the muzzle away from the breech.

Before you shoot your super clean rifle barrel take a patch and wet it with isopropyl alcohol. Now swab all the oil out of the barrel. Now a couple dry patches. Leave the last dry patch on the ramrod and push it to the bottom of the breech. Pop a 209 primer. Pull the patch and check it. It should be burnt even damaged. This means the breech is clean and the fire is good.

I am suspecting your problem is in the kind of sabot your shooting. You said you got some shockwaves, so see if they load any better. I can not load a hornady bullet with a harvester sabot down my CVA rifle without almost bending the ramrod. Yet I can load a T/C Mag Express sabot with a hornady bullet down the barrel. It loads stiff but acceptable.

After you shoot, put a patch on the rod, and some 50/50 mixture of alcohol and windshield washer fluid. Work that patch back and fourth in the barrel is short strokes, finally getting all the way down in the breech. If the fowling is real bad, repeat with another wet patch. If the crud ring is bad, use a bore brush and send that down the barrel, then swab again. (I never have to go to that extreme myself). A couple dry patches and you should be able to load a sabot that is loadable.....

Phil the problem I found with inlines is there are some sabots they like and some they hate. It is all a matter of barrel tolorence. Since we do fowl the barrel we have to make sure to clean it between shots in order to get acceptable tolorences back to the sabot. Actually I have one rifle that loads better fowled then clean....

If all else fails turn to conicals. I can load a 460 grain No Excuses Conical down the barrel and shoot five rounds and never have to swab. The accuracy is outstanding, and the down range power is more then you could dream of with 80 grains of Triple Se7en or Goex FFFg.

Keep trying.. that is sure a pretty rifle you have....I saw one on an auction site.
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Old 12-16-2004, 04:16 PM
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Default RE: What is a Crud Ring & need help again

ORIGINAL: Striper Phil

I just bought some shockwaves I am going to try.
Also try Dead Centers from Cabelas.
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Old 12-19-2004, 07:33 AM
  #5  
Typical Buck
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Default RE: What is a Crud Ring & need help again

Thanks as always. I did notice that the Hornady 240 from Traditions and the Hornady 240 from Wallys had sabots with different length tines , black but with different surface sheens. I'm Visiting my girls and grandkids in Oregon for the next few weeks. I will try the advice when I get back east. Thanks again SP
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Old 12-20-2004, 09:14 AM
  #6  
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Default RE: What is a Crud Ring & need help again

I agree with others that the problem you are having is something different than the crud ring. I have had this develop from using 777. The bore remains remarkably clean whereas the last inch in the breech develops a buildup. I have not had near the 6 inches of buildup that you experience. Only the last 1/2 inch of bullet seating is difficult with my experience. And even then I can get it to go with a little strong arm. Maybe your sabots are melting somewhat in the bore? Does that sound silly? Just a thought.

Also, many people get buildup from the residue of protectants like bore butter, Sheath, Rem oil etc. I am no expert by any means but I am under the impression that unless you are shooting patches/balls, you want a dry bore that is free of any lubes. Lubes catch all the byproducts of combustion like the snot in your nose catches dust. sabots are self lubing and powerbelts are undersized with only the self lubing base making contact. It is possible that you are getting a good puddle of oil in the breech from protecting it after cleaning. I run a mop with sheath down the barrel with the breech plug out. Then I run a couple of dry patches to soak up the excess. I then install the cleaned but oil free breech plug (stainless). When I go to shoot I run a patch or two of alcohol up and down to remove the thin film of Sheath in the bore. I end up with a very dry bore that shoots 8 to 10 loads of Powerbelts without swabbing. I don't know how sabots will react but I would think similar.
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Old 12-22-2004, 03:30 AM
  #7  
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Default RE: What is a Crud Ring & need help again

use cci 209 primers since i switched from fed 209a's to cci 209's nomore crud ring
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Old 12-22-2004, 05:38 AM
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Default RE: What is a Crud Ring & need help again

All I've used is CCI primers and have had 30% misfires should I switch?CVA Kodiak,new.
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Old 12-22-2004, 09:54 AM
  #9  
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Default RE: What is a Crud Ring & need help again

mrlizzard, I also replied to the crud ring post.
I was not aware that you were experiencing mis-fires as a result of the primer itself not firing.
Could be you have a bad batch of primers.
Try a different MFG Winchester, Remington, etc..
If still misfiring primers;
Firing pin engagement/alignment/issue here.
Potentially dangerous situation - as whenever a misfire coccurs we change our position from pointing it at an intended target while handling the weapon to inspect the misfire. During this moment the weapon can discharge resulting in an accident or firing the weapon in a non-intended direction.
You should not have to switch primers to find one that your weapon will fire.

If possible, return the weapon to your point of purchase for an exchange.

Or Call CVA.

Don't hunt with this weapon if still misfiring.

Best,
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Old 12-22-2004, 07:27 PM
  #10  
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Default RE: What is a Crud Ring & need help again

All I've used is CCI primers and have had 30% misfires should I switch?CVA Kodiak,new.

Thats weird ive never had misfires with cci 209 primers wether it be in my shotgun or my muzzle loader. Ive had misfires with cci small pistol primers but its not the primers its my gun due to a soft hammer spring
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