The CVA staghorn any thoughts?
05-29-2004, 06:47 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Crawfordsville Indiana USA
Posts: 10
The CVA staghorn any thoughts?
Well today I shot my friends CVA Hunterbolt 209 Magnum .45 for the first time with 240 powerbelts and 100grains of powder. All I can say is wow what fun lol. I'm now wanting to purchase a CVA staghorn in the .45 to shoot the 240 PB's w/ 100grains. This would be used primarily for deer. Would this be a decent first muzzle loader for me? I would hope to keep shots under 150 yards. I was just amazed at the accuracy of the magnum, I was amazed at how easy I could hit a milk jug at a 100 yards. Muzzle loaders are much more accurate than i imagined and I think i'd like to get one since in Indiana you cant hunt with a high powered rifle. Any input would be greatly appriciated.
05-29-2004, 08:33 PM
#2
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
RE: The CVA staghorn any thoughts?
I own a CVA Staghorn in .50 caliber and find it a very good shooting rifle. In fact I was shooting it today, but due to the number of people around I could only get back to the 35 yard line for safety reasons.
I shoot with open sights so I would limit my shots to 100 yards, but with a scope I see no reason with the right load this would not be a 150 yard rifle. I have shot some excellent groups with light sabots and even the 348 grain powerbelts.
I was shooting 320 grain R.E.A.L. conicals out of it today and using 90 grains of Goex FFFg. This is a real powerful load and has great accuracy. I personally would go for the .50 caliber instead of the .45 caliber. I have heard and read on different posts that the .45 caliber can be hard to find a load that shoots good in it. That does not mean there are not excellent shooting .45 caliber rifles out there. I just think the .50 caliber can do the same as the .45 caliber and the bullet selection is much better.
You are still going to shoot sabots for that long range shooting your talking about. You probably will only be shooting 100 grains of powder. I found when you push the projectiles too much, the accuracy goes out the window. Also you will notice that with the 24" barrel, it can not burn all of the 150 grains up, it will only manage to get about 120 grains of it used up before it blows the rest out the barrel, from my observations.
I never shoot pellets, only loose powder. I have been shooting Goex and really like it in the rifle. Today I shot this group.
My understanding is the Staghorn Magnum is discontinued. You should look at the Buck Horn which is their entry level rifle. They are on sale at Natchez for $89.95 right now. Another good rifle that is on sale right now is the Knight Wolverine II LK-93. This has a 22" barrel and is #11 cap ignition. I have one of them also and it is an excellent shooter.
I shoot with open sights so I would limit my shots to 100 yards, but with a scope I see no reason with the right load this would not be a 150 yard rifle. I have shot some excellent groups with light sabots and even the 348 grain powerbelts.
I was shooting 320 grain R.E.A.L. conicals out of it today and using 90 grains of Goex FFFg. This is a real powerful load and has great accuracy. I personally would go for the .50 caliber instead of the .45 caliber. I have heard and read on different posts that the .45 caliber can be hard to find a load that shoots good in it. That does not mean there are not excellent shooting .45 caliber rifles out there. I just think the .50 caliber can do the same as the .45 caliber and the bullet selection is much better.
You are still going to shoot sabots for that long range shooting your talking about. You probably will only be shooting 100 grains of powder. I found when you push the projectiles too much, the accuracy goes out the window. Also you will notice that with the 24" barrel, it can not burn all of the 150 grains up, it will only manage to get about 120 grains of it used up before it blows the rest out the barrel, from my observations.
I never shoot pellets, only loose powder. I have been shooting Goex and really like it in the rifle. Today I shot this group.
My understanding is the Staghorn Magnum is discontinued. You should look at the Buck Horn which is their entry level rifle. They are on sale at Natchez for $89.95 right now. Another good rifle that is on sale right now is the Knight Wolverine II LK-93. This has a 22" barrel and is #11 cap ignition. I have one of them also and it is an excellent shooter.
05-29-2004, 09:17 PM
#3
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Crawfordsville Indiana USA
Posts: 10
RE: The CVA staghorn any thoughts?
I guess your right on the staghorn being discontinued. I guess i should have checked the 04 catalog instead of the 03 lol. I did notice that the hunterbolt is only $129 and since i know how it shoots i might go with that from cabelas. The only thing i see wrong is that there isn't the option to add the starter kit that i wanted. Now i'll have to figure out what needs to go with it.
Also it would be great if someone could list the things needed like individual cleaning things and tools needed for a muzzle loader besides the obvious bullets, powder and primer.
Also it would be great if someone could list the things needed like individual cleaning things and tools needed for a muzzle loader besides the obvious bullets, powder and primer.
05-30-2004, 09:00 AM
#4
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
RE: The CVA staghorn any thoughts?
I was looking at the CVA Buck Horn that is offered for $89.00 at Natchez and it sure looks like the Staghorn to me with a different name. They made a few nice improvements to the stock is about all I can see.
The Hunter Bolt is a nice rifle without a doubt but at $129.00 I would go with the Knight Wolverine II LK-93 in Natchez for the same price. The Knight has a Green Mountain Barrel which is a real good shooting barrel and a great guarantee. The Knights are meant to shoot sabots not conicals. If your looking at long range shooting you will probably be shooting the sabots anyway.
Natchez also has a Sightron S-1 scope 3 X 9 for $99.00 which would make this one long range shooting rifle. Even though the Wolverine has a 22" barrel and a #11 ignition there are kits you can get to update the ignition and I would not worry about the missing 2 inches.
As for the starter kit, I think that is a waste of money. If you're going to shoot loose powder then you need a powder measure. Get the see through kind with the twist funnel that cuts the charge. They are the most accurate. Also get a good quality range rod. The one that comes with the rifle is not the greatest one in the world. They are short and usually not real thick. You want a good solid one when you shoot. I use a T/C rugged rod in 3/8 32" long. The longer the better. Also you will need cleaning jags and brass bore brushes. Then there is Birchwood Casey Bore Scrubber, and Birchwood Casey Sheath for taking care of the rifle. I also keep some JB Bore Paste around. Get yourself some pre cut 2" cleaning patches. It really makes it handy to swab between shots. Then get some CVA Gun Slick Breech Plug and Nipple Grease. That is the best stuff on the market. A small bottle of Remington Teflon Gun Oil called Rem Oil is a must. I use it to coat all the screws and bolts when I put the rifle back together. You also need to get a good quality short starter. T/C makes an excellent plastic short starter. A bore guide is nice to have to keep from scratching the bore so much but not necessary. And get a T/C Dog Bone capper. That is the most handy capper on the market. It holds 10 caps nice and solid, fits in your pocket, and lets you put the 209 primers on the rifle easy.
Depending on what kind of money you want to spend, there are some nice rifles out there on sale right now. Before I jump to the gun, I would look around. Some of the Optima are under $200.00 right now. Also Tradition's new Persuit is out there under $200.00. Some of these break open rifles are sure a blessing when it comes to cleaning from the breech out, and for checking the primers and breech plug when you shoot. They are also for the most part water proof.
Another in line I have that is a real long distance shooter is a T/C Black Diamond XR. I have shot very good groups at 150 yards with their Shockwaves. This is a real nice shooting balanced rifle and at $200.00 is a good deal. I paid a lot more then that for mine. I have a 1.5 X 4.5 scope on it and this thing at 100 yards is as accurate as any centerfire rifle for the most part. Of course I get the flyer from time to time. The Black Diamond is one of the true magnum rifles in my opinion. It will shoot the stiff loads and do it very well, plus the T/C guarantee is the best.
Lots of stuff to think of so have fun shopping for your rifle. Look them over and if you can get to a sporting goods store and handle some of them. See how they shoulder and balance. Don't be in a hurry...
Natchez, Bass Pro Shop, and USA Midway have some real good sales right now....
The Hunter Bolt is a nice rifle without a doubt but at $129.00 I would go with the Knight Wolverine II LK-93 in Natchez for the same price. The Knight has a Green Mountain Barrel which is a real good shooting barrel and a great guarantee. The Knights are meant to shoot sabots not conicals. If your looking at long range shooting you will probably be shooting the sabots anyway.
Natchez also has a Sightron S-1 scope 3 X 9 for $99.00 which would make this one long range shooting rifle. Even though the Wolverine has a 22" barrel and a #11 ignition there are kits you can get to update the ignition and I would not worry about the missing 2 inches.
As for the starter kit, I think that is a waste of money. If you're going to shoot loose powder then you need a powder measure. Get the see through kind with the twist funnel that cuts the charge. They are the most accurate. Also get a good quality range rod. The one that comes with the rifle is not the greatest one in the world. They are short and usually not real thick. You want a good solid one when you shoot. I use a T/C rugged rod in 3/8 32" long. The longer the better. Also you will need cleaning jags and brass bore brushes. Then there is Birchwood Casey Bore Scrubber, and Birchwood Casey Sheath for taking care of the rifle. I also keep some JB Bore Paste around. Get yourself some pre cut 2" cleaning patches. It really makes it handy to swab between shots. Then get some CVA Gun Slick Breech Plug and Nipple Grease. That is the best stuff on the market. A small bottle of Remington Teflon Gun Oil called Rem Oil is a must. I use it to coat all the screws and bolts when I put the rifle back together. You also need to get a good quality short starter. T/C makes an excellent plastic short starter. A bore guide is nice to have to keep from scratching the bore so much but not necessary. And get a T/C Dog Bone capper. That is the most handy capper on the market. It holds 10 caps nice and solid, fits in your pocket, and lets you put the 209 primers on the rifle easy.
Depending on what kind of money you want to spend, there are some nice rifles out there on sale right now. Before I jump to the gun, I would look around. Some of the Optima are under $200.00 right now. Also Tradition's new Persuit is out there under $200.00. Some of these break open rifles are sure a blessing when it comes to cleaning from the breech out, and for checking the primers and breech plug when you shoot. They are also for the most part water proof.
Another in line I have that is a real long distance shooter is a T/C Black Diamond XR. I have shot very good groups at 150 yards with their Shockwaves. This is a real nice shooting balanced rifle and at $200.00 is a good deal. I paid a lot more then that for mine. I have a 1.5 X 4.5 scope on it and this thing at 100 yards is as accurate as any centerfire rifle for the most part. Of course I get the flyer from time to time. The Black Diamond is one of the true magnum rifles in my opinion. It will shoot the stiff loads and do it very well, plus the T/C guarantee is the best.
Lots of stuff to think of so have fun shopping for your rifle. Look them over and if you can get to a sporting goods store and handle some of them. See how they shoulder and balance. Don't be in a hurry...
Natchez, Bass Pro Shop, and USA Midway have some real good sales right now....
05-30-2004, 12:48 PM
#5
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Crawfordsville Indiana USA
Posts: 10
RE: The CVA staghorn any thoughts?
Ok heres what I have to work with I have a 3-9X32 scope that is pretty nice so i think i'll stick with that. I have about $200 (give or take a little) to work with for the rifle and cleaning equiptment. I really dont wanna get a lot of money into it as i also am saving for a stand. I think i may stop in to barnes and noble and see if they have any ML books so I have a better understanding of what is involved and needed. I do like that Wolverine ML (and the buckhorn) but i liked the size of a .45 powerbelt is a .50 (which is what the gun is) very much bigger? Will i need more powder to throw the .50 out there as compared to the .45? Also i wanted to stay with bass pro or cabelas because I order off of them alot and know how they do things, is Natchez very good with costomer service?
Sorry for all these questions its just so darn confusing. Can you tell me the difference if any with the 209 and #11 primers which is prefered?
Sorry for all these questions its just so darn confusing. Can you tell me the difference if any with the 209 and #11 primers which is prefered?
05-30-2004, 02:30 PM
#6
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
RE: The CVA staghorn any thoughts?
The .50 caliber is a little bigger then the .45 caliber in diameter. The .50 caliber is 1/2 inch across. They would use the same powder charge to fire their respective bullets. The .45 caliber shoots a lighter weight projectile then the .50 caliber. Due to the weight difference the .45 caliber projectile will be faster, but will also have less energy at longer ranges. I personally want as much lead as I can get to enter and expand in my target. Bigger hole theory if you know what I mean.
The 209 primer is the same thing that shoots off a shotgun shell. The #11 cap is a much smaller cap. The 209 primer throws more heat into the powder charge and therefore they claim a better ignition. I have shot the Knight Wolverine with #11 caps and never saw an ignition problem yet. They also make a conversion for the Knight to change it over to 209 primers, but I just do not see the need for it.
If all your shots are going to be 150-200 yards, then you might get some advantage out of the extra two inches of barrel length, but really I think the fact that the Knight has a Green Mountain barrel will more then make up the difference of the two inches. In all the years I have hunted I have never shot further then 90 yards at anything with a muzzleloader.
You can shoot Pyrodex Pellets, Triple Se7en pellets, or loose powder. You can also shoot my favorite, black powder. Loose powders are cheaper to shoot. I also feel you can tune your rifle better but there are a lot of shooters out there happy with pellets. I have only shot pellets twice, and they were not my pellets....
The Hunter Bolt has a 24 inch barrel which is the same as my Staghorn. It has trouble burning more then 120 grains of FFg powder. So there is really no need for three pellets. You might get some 30 grain pellets and then make you loads that way. What any of these people here will tell you is, 100 grains of powder is plenty of power. Loose powder recommendations are 100 grains.
The Wolverine has a max charge of 120 grains of powder whether it is in pellet form or loose. I have been experimenting shooting FFFg powder which is for light caliber rifles and pistols out of the Wolverine and it is working really good. 90 grains of FFFg powder really packs a punch.I also think the Knight has better balance and does not jump in recoil as bad as my Staghorn. I have no scopes on them, but the Knight is a smooth shooter.
If all you want to shoot are powerbelts, then you might like the CVA better. I would still get a .50 caliber and shoot the 295 grain or the 348 grain powerbelts. But at the ranges you are talking perhaps a .45 caliber is better. I have just heard that some .45 calibers are hard to tune and get a load working. By the way, powerbelts are expensive to shoot. They are almost a dollar each. So I hope the rifle tunes in fast and you do not want to practice too much. I have had good luck shooting REAL concials out of the .50 caliber CVA but only shot them out to 100 yards with the open sights.
I have never had to use the customer service from Natchez. I am sure they are good to deal with, just like Cabela's or Bass Pro. Only you can decide what rifle is best for you. Don't let the bigger .50 caliber scare you off. They have a better bullet selection for the most part and are much easier to find stuff for.
If I was trying to get by under $200.00 I personally would go with the .50 caliber Knight Wolverine II . I think it is a great rifle. I just got mine about a month ago and am still trying different loads in it. It seems to shoot about anything I shove down it, other then coinicals.
Both my CVA and Knight seem to need a fowling shot. Thats not a big problem. There are some excellent books out there to help you learn the sport. The Knight also comes with a video that teaches you how to load, shoot, and clean the rifle and some other stuff.
These message boards area great way to get information. Any question you have, just ask away. People here are more then happy to help you and answer any question you might have.
Good luck on your choice.
The 209 primer is the same thing that shoots off a shotgun shell. The #11 cap is a much smaller cap. The 209 primer throws more heat into the powder charge and therefore they claim a better ignition. I have shot the Knight Wolverine with #11 caps and never saw an ignition problem yet. They also make a conversion for the Knight to change it over to 209 primers, but I just do not see the need for it.
If all your shots are going to be 150-200 yards, then you might get some advantage out of the extra two inches of barrel length, but really I think the fact that the Knight has a Green Mountain barrel will more then make up the difference of the two inches. In all the years I have hunted I have never shot further then 90 yards at anything with a muzzleloader.
You can shoot Pyrodex Pellets, Triple Se7en pellets, or loose powder. You can also shoot my favorite, black powder. Loose powders are cheaper to shoot. I also feel you can tune your rifle better but there are a lot of shooters out there happy with pellets. I have only shot pellets twice, and they were not my pellets....
The Hunter Bolt has a 24 inch barrel which is the same as my Staghorn. It has trouble burning more then 120 grains of FFg powder. So there is really no need for three pellets. You might get some 30 grain pellets and then make you loads that way. What any of these people here will tell you is, 100 grains of powder is plenty of power. Loose powder recommendations are 100 grains.
The Wolverine has a max charge of 120 grains of powder whether it is in pellet form or loose. I have been experimenting shooting FFFg powder which is for light caliber rifles and pistols out of the Wolverine and it is working really good. 90 grains of FFFg powder really packs a punch.I also think the Knight has better balance and does not jump in recoil as bad as my Staghorn. I have no scopes on them, but the Knight is a smooth shooter.
If all you want to shoot are powerbelts, then you might like the CVA better. I would still get a .50 caliber and shoot the 295 grain or the 348 grain powerbelts. But at the ranges you are talking perhaps a .45 caliber is better. I have just heard that some .45 calibers are hard to tune and get a load working. By the way, powerbelts are expensive to shoot. They are almost a dollar each. So I hope the rifle tunes in fast and you do not want to practice too much. I have had good luck shooting REAL concials out of the .50 caliber CVA but only shot them out to 100 yards with the open sights.
I have never had to use the customer service from Natchez. I am sure they are good to deal with, just like Cabela's or Bass Pro. Only you can decide what rifle is best for you. Don't let the bigger .50 caliber scare you off. They have a better bullet selection for the most part and are much easier to find stuff for.
If I was trying to get by under $200.00 I personally would go with the .50 caliber Knight Wolverine II . I think it is a great rifle. I just got mine about a month ago and am still trying different loads in it. It seems to shoot about anything I shove down it, other then coinicals.
Both my CVA and Knight seem to need a fowling shot. Thats not a big problem. There are some excellent books out there to help you learn the sport. The Knight also comes with a video that teaches you how to load, shoot, and clean the rifle and some other stuff.
These message boards area great way to get information. Any question you have, just ask away. People here are more then happy to help you and answer any question you might have.
Good luck on your choice.
05-30-2004, 04:40 PM
#7
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Crawfordsville Indiana USA
Posts: 10
RE: The CVA staghorn any thoughts?
Ok heres my final choice that i'm gonna get. I'm pretty set on it too. I'm gonna get the buckhorn and slap my 3-9x32 scope on it and shoot 100 grains with 240 grain knight jacketed hollow point sabots, or at least thats where i'll start. The rifle 2 packs of bullets a cleaning kit and shooting kit are gonna run me 152.08 and i'll get the powder and primers locally so I dont have to pay hazmat fees. Yeah the ranges I stated were a little much which this in .50 My max range will be 150.
05-30-2004, 05:35 PM
#8
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
RE: The CVA staghorn any thoughts?
That sounds like it will be a real nice setup. The rifle I am sure will really do the job. I have had real good luck shooting 240 grain Hornady XTP with harvester sabots out of my Staghorn. I also shoot a hand cast 200 grain SWC with a harvester sabot that is real accurate. I think I could squirrel hunt with this load. If you just want to plink and want some cheap things to shoot then get some R.E.A.L. conicals. There is a place on line that sells them real reasonable. I make my own and my own lube so they are even cheaper for me.....
All rifles are different, but my Staghorn has a magic number of 90 grains. It seems to shoot best with 90 grains of powder. Good luck with your rifle. I will be watching the board to see how well it is doing for you....
All rifles are different, but my Staghorn has a magic number of 90 grains. It seems to shoot best with 90 grains of powder. Good luck with your rifle. I will be watching the board to see how well it is doing for you....
