Muzzleloader has me stumped
09-21-2021, 02:02 PM
#1
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2021
Posts: 3
Muzzleloader has me stumped
I've muzzleloader hunted for several years but never changed any loads/powders. Now that I've purchased a new muzzleloader (TC Triumph) I'm struggling to get it right. Previously I've used 100 grain of Pyrodex Pellets with TC shockwave 250grain sabots. While the gun shoots good, it doesnt seem to burn all the powder. Even after only 1 shot, I cannot get the sabot seated unless (probably not correct way) I use a hammer and a block. I've cleaned the barrel very well and the first load is easy. The 2nd load is a struggle. 100 grain isn't much powder, but could it also be the sabots? What do you think I should change?
09-23-2021, 08:49 AM
#2
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,605
How old are your pellets? They have a poor shelf life.
Swab between shots and see if that helps.
Shockwaves come with semi large OD sabot unless you get the Super Glide version. You could swap out just the sabot for Harvester Black Crushribs and use the Shockwave bullet in them. That sabot should load quite a bit easier but not be too loose. Cabelas stocks that sabot if you dont want to order them online.
https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/harv...abots---per-50
Swab between shots and see if that helps.
Shockwaves come with semi large OD sabot unless you get the Super Glide version. You could swap out just the sabot for Harvester Black Crushribs and use the Shockwave bullet in them. That sabot should load quite a bit easier but not be too loose. Cabelas stocks that sabot if you dont want to order them online.
https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/harv...abots---per-50
09-23-2021, 08:57 AM
#3
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,743
some bores have a might tighter tolerance , and as such, some don't like certian sabot/bullet combo's
and this is also why many muzzleloader company's make what they call EASY slide sabots and even bullets to help loading in very tight bores!
this is also why many modern inline users also have gone to cleaner burning powders, like blackhorn 209 and such
they also sell cleaner firing primers too
all the little things can help make life easier
you'd be surprised how dirty a fired primer can make a bore pending brand of primer
so, my suggestion is maybe to try some different sabots/bullet combo's
many love them powerbelt for how easy they load?
in very tight bores they tend to shoot pretty well too , or in my experience they have!
although I never really hunted with them, found other combo's my guns liked better, but they have grouped well in many inlines I have shot!
and I am not pushing any brand here either, just giving you options to maybe make loading easier for you
and this is also why many muzzleloader company's make what they call EASY slide sabots and even bullets to help loading in very tight bores!
this is also why many modern inline users also have gone to cleaner burning powders, like blackhorn 209 and such
they also sell cleaner firing primers too
all the little things can help make life easier
you'd be surprised how dirty a fired primer can make a bore pending brand of primer
so, my suggestion is maybe to try some different sabots/bullet combo's
many love them powerbelt for how easy they load?
in very tight bores they tend to shoot pretty well too , or in my experience they have!
although I never really hunted with them, found other combo's my guns liked better, but they have grouped well in many inlines I have shot!
and I am not pushing any brand here either, just giving you options to maybe make loading easier for you
09-23-2021, 11:18 AM
#4
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 12,745
What I suspect is that you have a tight bore which is not uncommon. What makes your follow up loads difficult is the fouling buildup in the bore. This could be due to old pellets as GM-54 said or having some surface oil in the bore making the fouling adhere to it.
First thing I would do is to stop using the pellets and get some loose Pyrodex RS. If you were using 100 grain charge (2 pellets) start with 80 gr of loose. Next, make sure the bore is clean of all oils prior to the first shot. After the first shot swab the bore with a damp patch of black powder solvent (or even a spit patch) followed by a dry one. If your second loading or subsequent loadings are still to hard get yourself some Harvester Crush Rib sabots. For the Shockwaves you will need the black ones which are 50 cal for 45 cal bullets.
Honestly I think if I were you I would just go and get the Harvester sabots anyway and save yourself the headaches.
My Knight Disc Extreme has a super tight bore and I must use the crush ribs too.
First thing I would do is to stop using the pellets and get some loose Pyrodex RS. If you were using 100 grain charge (2 pellets) start with 80 gr of loose. Next, make sure the bore is clean of all oils prior to the first shot. After the first shot swab the bore with a damp patch of black powder solvent (or even a spit patch) followed by a dry one. If your second loading or subsequent loadings are still to hard get yourself some Harvester Crush Rib sabots. For the Shockwaves you will need the black ones which are 50 cal for 45 cal bullets.
Honestly I think if I were you I would just go and get the Harvester sabots anyway and save yourself the headaches.
My Knight Disc Extreme has a super tight bore and I must use the crush ribs too.
Last edited by bronko22000; 09-23-2021 at 11:23 AM.
09-24-2021, 06:27 AM
#5
Spike
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 34
I've muzzleloader hunted for several years but never changed any loads/powders. Now that I've purchased a new muzzleloader (TC Triumph) I'm struggling to get it right. Previously I've used 100 grain of Pyrodex Pellets with TC shockwave 250grain sabots. While the gun shoots good, it doesnt seem to burn all the powder. Even after only 1 shot, I cannot get the sabot seated unless (probably not correct way) I use a hammer and a block. I've cleaned the barrel very well and the first load is easy. The 2nd load is a struggle. 100 grain isn't much powder, but could it also be the sabots? What do you think I should change?
09-25-2021, 04:54 PM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,743
bore butter might make things easier or worse
as if shooting dirty power/primers, bore butter just collects more residue, which can make following reloading harder and harder!
or that's been my experience with using in
I gave up using it, for just using cleaner burning powder(blackhorn 209 gets my vote here, if not for burning cleaner, for NOT having that big cloud of smoke to see animals run off at times, or the non corrosion side of it alone makes it worth using IMO)
I also found that in lines rare like any other rifle, they all LIKE different powders/bullets and sabots, there is NO one combo that works best in any inline
so playing about will always find you the best combo, or load your looking for, accuracy or the fastest, flattest, easiest to load and so on!
we all have different goals when we use things
but with so many options out there, that can make life easier, its worth experimenting to find what the gun likes!
also gets you some extra shooting time which is normally a good thing to help you get better at things too!
as if shooting dirty power/primers, bore butter just collects more residue, which can make following reloading harder and harder!
or that's been my experience with using in
I gave up using it, for just using cleaner burning powder(blackhorn 209 gets my vote here, if not for burning cleaner, for NOT having that big cloud of smoke to see animals run off at times, or the non corrosion side of it alone makes it worth using IMO)
I also found that in lines rare like any other rifle, they all LIKE different powders/bullets and sabots, there is NO one combo that works best in any inline
so playing about will always find you the best combo, or load your looking for, accuracy or the fastest, flattest, easiest to load and so on!
we all have different goals when we use things
but with so many options out there, that can make life easier, its worth experimenting to find what the gun likes!
also gets you some extra shooting time which is normally a good thing to help you get better at things too!
09-26-2021, 01:29 AM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Eastern wv
Posts: 3,646
bore butter might make things easier or worse
as if shooting dirty power/primers, bore butter just collects more residue, which can make following reloading harder and harder!
or that's been my experience with using in
I gave up using it, for just using cleaner burning powder(blackhorn 209 gets my vote here, if not for burning cleaner, for NOT having that big cloud of smoke to see animals run off at times, or the non corrosion side of it alone makes it worth using IMO)
I also found that in lines rare like any other rifle, they all LIKE different powders/bullets and sabots, there is NO one combo that works best in any inline
so playing about will always find you the best combo, or load your looking for, accuracy or the fastest, flattest, easiest to load and so on!
we all have different goals when we use things
but with so many options out there, that can make life easier, its worth experimenting to find what the gun likes!
also gets you some extra shooting time which is normally a good thing to help you get better at things too!
as if shooting dirty power/primers, bore butter just collects more residue, which can make following reloading harder and harder!
or that's been my experience with using in
I gave up using it, for just using cleaner burning powder(blackhorn 209 gets my vote here, if not for burning cleaner, for NOT having that big cloud of smoke to see animals run off at times, or the non corrosion side of it alone makes it worth using IMO)
I also found that in lines rare like any other rifle, they all LIKE different powders/bullets and sabots, there is NO one combo that works best in any inline
so playing about will always find you the best combo, or load your looking for, accuracy or the fastest, flattest, easiest to load and so on!
we all have different goals when we use things
but with so many options out there, that can make life easier, its worth experimenting to find what the gun likes!
also gets you some extra shooting time which is normally a good thing to help you get better at things too!
Last edited by Ridge Runner; 09-26-2021 at 01:32 AM.
09-26-2021, 10:03 AM
#9
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 12,745
RR I used bore butter for years too until I saw the light. Seasoning the bore a myth. Its not a cast iron fry pan! All bore Butter will do is set in the bore and allow the fouling to adhere to it making follow up loadings difficult. It is true that BB will keep the fouling soft but its still there. Simply swap the bore after each shot and use a sabot that makes the bullet/sabot combo "loadable" without getting a hernia. And pellets deteriorate much quicker than loose powder and are far less versatile.
09-26-2021, 11:57 AM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,743
Have used it in every muzzleloader I ever owned, and always, everytime a lubed sabot, patched ball, or conical loaded easier than a dry one. the secret is to season the bore properly! also if the thing appears to be not burning powder consistantly at a 100 gr charge, are the pellets loaded right, they have a front and back ya know!
as , stated, bore butter will just attract and hold un burned powder,
making the bore tighter to load the last few inches to seat things properly
things might go easier down MOST the barrel/bore, but once things build up more and more f it just gets harder to push the last few inches to seat things properly!
all the more so again, on a bore that maybe is very tight to begin with
and or sabot/bullet combos that are extra snug to start with in a specific bore!
add in older power or just very dirty powder
and bore butter isn;'t a great solution,
it might work fine to reload a few times
but there again are just better options these days! that offer more long term solutions without the added step of using bore butter!