Muley Hunter

Ron............I know you'll rag on this test, and probably on Jon too for being mentioned. I just want to show a test with leather as the first thing the bullet hits. It didn't expand the bullet at all from the looks of the gel. Your carpet and plywood is extreme compared to hitting a deer.

super_hunt54

Pete, I wouldn't call it extreme in the least. In actuality, I would call it mildly weak. Bone density is quite a bit tougher than the thin plywood Ron has been using in his tests and that old commercial carpet he is using is probably a little weaker than hide and fur on a WINTER deer (fat stored and winter fur growth being near triple the summer fur) so I would call his tests quite a bit more accurate than just a piece of leather in front of ballistics gel. Granted I'm not a huge supporter of these water jug tests but the way Ron has been doing them is quite a bit more accurate than just the mere ballistics gel that most testers use. The ballistics gel test gives a good visual of the probable wound track and temporary, as well as permanent, wound cavity. But real live simulation of how the bullet would act on a game animal it is far from accurate.

Gm54-120

They used a 300gr shot from a pistol with two Pyrodex pellets. A 50gr and a 30gr equivalent for 80gr total.

WHC is sponsored by CVA/Powerbelt and so is the other forum they mentioned.

Notice how the gel block showed very little temporary distortion in the slow motion video.

Did you see them mention the fps at impact?

You can have all this for $25/15 plus the cost of the Optima V2 pistol or a greatly reduced load from a rifle.

Muley Hunter

Did I mention bone? I don't aim for bone. I'm talking about the hide. A deer rib is not going to do much, and that's if you can hit it perfect enough. Mostly the bullet will slide by a rib. The ribs may break from the impact is all.

Muley Hunter

I also noticed the shot was taken very close, and is probably equal to a more realistic longer shot. Why is that ok when Ron does it? More fps would have just added more penetration, and a bit more expansion. It went 5 inches before expanding at all.

Muley Hunter

The horse was dead 15 pages back. Lets let this die in peace. Nobody is going to change anybodies mind.

Gm54-120

More FPS does not always add more penetration. Especially with lead hollow points.

Ron is not sponsored by anyone. His test is a simple comparison of a variety of bullets in the same media. He isn't trying to sell bullets for himself or anyone else.

I did not say it was not ok or ok. I stated simple facts about the WHC test.

Did you see a a fps at impact listed by WHC and can you think of any reason why they would use a pistol for the test? I think its safe to assume the vast majority of hunters wont be using a pistol with 80gr or Pyrodex.

The slow motion video clearly shows a poor temporary disruption in the gel. Its far more pronounced in the Barnes video.

Now with that said, if you want to use the 300gr Aerolite at a greatly reduced speed, you will likely have better luck with it vs the 250gr at any speed.

Triple Se7en

Exactly Muley! I just watched a deer harvest at Prbullet.com using 195 gr Dead Center Duplex .357 caliber bullet ahead of 100 gr of ffg Triple Seven powder. This little lead bullet expired the deer in 2-3 seconds, prior to his head hitting the ground where it stood. Most all harvested deer in Michigan are at distances under 100 yards. If one hunts out west in open terrains, then shop/study 200-400 yard bullets. Otherwise you are wasting your money, provided you know how to somewhat accurately shoot that ML. A typical Whitetails body allows a 8" circle of kill zone. Aim for the middle and you have a completely round 4" circle of being off-target.

super_hunt54

Pete, a deer rib would be equal too, or possibly even greater than, the strength of that plywood. And again I will say this, I want a bullet that will function properly in a WORSE CASE SCENARIO!! Not one that I will HAVE to choose a perfect standing still, taking in a deep breath so I can clearly sight in between ribs, pray it doesn't flinch, POS bullet. If I have a clear high shoulder shot, it's what I want. To heck with tracking and dragging. You and I are BOTH getting too old for that load of crap! I want a bullet that will deliver a "dropum right there" shot if I hit where I want. But I also want a bullet that will perform well if I DON'T have that optimum shot. Anchoring a whitetail, elk, moose, or whatever big game is what I am after. A high shoulder where I impact spine and lung is about the #1 shot there is. Larger target area than a head or neck shot and will drop them where they are.

Gm54-120

If a deer shows up at 15 yards, how many of you will wait until it walks far enough away for your bullet to slow down and perform properly?

Well first Cecil is a salesman but i know this bullet is extremely popular with someone i highly respect.

Lets look at this statement more clearly though.

You said in another thread the DeadCenter is not soft lead. You said its a lead alloy and designed to penetrate.

Lets look at the SD of a 195gr .357 bullet. Is it much better than a 50ca 250gr bullet?

Of course it is.

Does the 195gr DeadCenter have a huge hollow point?

It does not appear to have one.