252g Powerbelt Hollowpoint
08-01-2015, 05:57 AM
#101
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 9,557
What if something goes awry and your perfect shot hits the shoulder? Wouldn't you rather have a bullet that will work in that scenario? Of course it will also work in the double lung shot, as may well the PB or many other bullets. Its not the solution for the "perfect" scenario that I want, its one that works when crap goes wrong.
I get it Pete, I try to double lung each time too. But reality is, sometimes things happen. Animal moves or we move right at the shot. In that case, we didn't get the perfect shot... then what?
Like I said, I have shot a ton of deer... even on "perfect" shot opportunities, stuff happens. Maybe folks that have killed only a handfull of deer haven't experienced it yet, but eventually its likely. When that happens, why not use something that up's your odds? That's all I'm saying.
Heck I know a guy that shot a deer with a .17hmr... they aren't that tough if you hit them in the right spot (with any bullet). Obviously elk are bigger/tougher but the same thought applies. Its when you don't hit the perfect spot that is more important, to me anyhow.
I get it Pete, I try to double lung each time too. But reality is, sometimes things happen. Animal moves or we move right at the shot. In that case, we didn't get the perfect shot... then what?
Like I said, I have shot a ton of deer... even on "perfect" shot opportunities, stuff happens. Maybe folks that have killed only a handfull of deer haven't experienced it yet, but eventually its likely. When that happens, why not use something that up's your odds? That's all I'm saying.
Heck I know a guy that shot a deer with a .17hmr... they aren't that tough if you hit them in the right spot (with any bullet). Obviously elk are bigger/tougher but the same thought applies. Its when you don't hit the perfect spot that is more important, to me anyhow.
I showed pictures of Jon's deer shot in the shoulder with what some think is the weakest PB. The Aerolite. The shot went though the shoulder and lungs. I know it looks like a lung shot, but i'm assuming the deer was quartering towards him.
08-01-2015, 06:07 AM
#102
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Virginia / West Virginia
Posts: 4,906
Of course any shot "could" kill any animal. About 20yrs ago I saw a friend of mine make a horrible shot at about 300yds in a field on a broadside buck... he shot the dew claws off it. That thing bled like a heart shot and was dead in 40yds. I'd be willing to bet if that was an elk that John shot, he would not have found it.
All I'm saying is why not set yourself up for a worst case scenario ... when the option to do so exists.
All I'm saying is why not set yourself up for a worst case scenario ... when the option to do so exists.
08-01-2015, 06:21 AM
#103
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 9,557
I wouldn't be so confident if I took 300yd shots, but my shots are close. I'm using a scope now. If I can't hit the kill zone, I better get out the rocking chair.
Let me add a little to all this. I never planned to use PB's in my hunt this year. Although I did consider it for awhile. It just bothered me to see them trashed so bad, when what i've observed in person was positive. Not all the kills I witnessed were perfect shots either.
So, I decided to use them to prove a point. Not that they could work, but that they do work. I would never put game in danger of not taking a humane shot. Anybody who really knows me would know that. I expected some flak, but not what I got. It did show me what some of you are about though. Enough so that I don't want to be on the same forum with you.
Some of you can thump your chest, because you think you know everything. Some of us know better.
Let me add a little to all this. I never planned to use PB's in my hunt this year. Although I did consider it for awhile. It just bothered me to see them trashed so bad, when what i've observed in person was positive. Not all the kills I witnessed were perfect shots either.
So, I decided to use them to prove a point. Not that they could work, but that they do work. I would never put game in danger of not taking a humane shot. Anybody who really knows me would know that. I expected some flak, but not what I got. It did show me what some of you are about though. Enough so that I don't want to be on the same forum with you.
Some of you can thump your chest, because you think you know everything. Some of us know better.
08-01-2015, 07:04 AM
#104
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Near a lake with no fish
Posts: 1,077
Come on Muley, its an argument you'll never win.
08-01-2015, 07:13 AM
#105
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 9,557
I see you and T7 are a couple that do know everything? I guess I better start paying attention, especially since I've been at this since 1973, have harvested darn near 400 whitetail and shoot thousands of rounds each year.
Come on Muley, its an argument you'll never win.
Come on Muley, its an argument you'll never win.
08-01-2015, 07:22 AM
#106
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,605
Care to guess who said this all the way back in 2013, 2014 and May of 2015?
I could easily post more but i imagine you get the picture. I wonder what happened since just May of 2015 to completely reverse the opinion?
I used the same arguments HE used while posting to others.
I'd pay the price if they worked better. My options of having to use full bore bullets is limited. Especially, with my latest gun that has a tight bore.
I'm always surprised to see guys use Pb's in states that allow sabots. Just use PT Gold for half the price, and way better terminal performance. a PB might work great, or it might fail. Why take the chance? The money you save on the PT Gold bullets will pay for the extra expense of BH 209.
I'm always surprised to see guys use Pb's in states that allow sabots. Just use PT Gold for half the price, and way better terminal performance. a PB might work great, or it might fail. Why take the chance? The money you save on the PT Gold bullets will pay for the extra expense of BH 209.
I assume you mean for elk?
I have more faith in this bullet if you have to use a full bore bullet.
http://www.hornady.com/store/50-Cal-350-gr-FPB/
I have more faith in this bullet if you have to use a full bore bullet.
http://www.hornady.com/store/50-Cal-350-gr-FPB/
I'm one of the ones who don't like PB's all that much, but you liked them.
What i'm trying to get at is.......was there a little doubt in the back of your mind telling you to try a better bullet?
Personally, I find it hard to believe that all the stories about PB failures are shooters fault. There's just too many stories, and some for experienced hunters.
The last thing i'll say is about your kills. I'd rather not have a bullet I use pancake like that. It obviously didn't pass through, because you have the bullet to show. Less expansion probably would have. It's not a huge deer. Would you use the same bullet on a big muley buck? How about an elk? A pass through isn't always necessary, but it sure help with tracking if the animal runs. I'm sure your Parker bullet would have blown through those deer.
Anyway, it's these things that put doubt in my mind about PB's. They might work perfect for years, but that one time they don't is what hunters thing about. I never heard about a Barnes failing. That's what I look for.
The last thing i'll say is about your kills. I'd rather not have a bullet I use pancake like that. It obviously didn't pass through, because you have the bullet to show. Less expansion probably would have. It's not a huge deer. Would you use the same bullet on a big muley buck? How about an elk? A pass through isn't always necessary, but it sure help with tracking if the animal runs. I'm sure your Parker bullet would have blown through those deer.
Anyway, it's these things that put doubt in my mind about PB's. They might work perfect for years, but that one time they don't is what hunters thing about. I never heard about a Barnes failing. That's what I look for.
Your examples aren't everybody's examples. Animals do run when hit with killing shots. Hunters usually need blood trails to track. A pass through helps that.
The PB doesn't dump all it's energy in the animal. Sometimes it over expands, or fragments, and doesn't penetrate. That isn't dumping it's energy. That's failing.
The PB doesn't dump all it's energy in the animal. Sometimes it over expands, or fragments, and doesn't penetrate. That isn't dumping it's energy. That's failing.
I used the same arguments HE used while posting to others.
08-01-2015, 07:37 AM
#107
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 9,557
I find it hard to recommend a PB to anyone. I have no idea how they hunt, and a PB will fail if some things are done wrong. So, I play it safe, and steer new guys away from them.
I also don't recommend anybody hunt elk with a 30-30 either. I know it works from experience, but I don't know how someone else will hunt with it.
That doesn't mean that the PB and 30-30 won't work. I just don't recommend them.
You went to all that trouble to look up those posts? You could have just asked me.
I also don't recommend anybody hunt elk with a 30-30 either. I know it works from experience, but I don't know how someone else will hunt with it.
That doesn't mean that the PB and 30-30 won't work. I just don't recommend them.
You went to all that trouble to look up those posts? You could have just asked me.
08-01-2015, 07:50 AM
#108
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,605
Some of these quoted responses were too Hawgslayer who you know good and well is NOT a newbie.
You used the same arguments with him as i used with you.
You said, "That isn't dumping it's energy. That's failing." and i totally agree with that statement.
What you are saying now in this forum is completely different.
You used the same arguments with him as i used with you.
You said, "That isn't dumping it's energy. That's failing." and i totally agree with that statement.
What you are saying now in this forum is completely different.
08-01-2015, 07:51 AM
#109
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
I find it hard to recommend a PB to anyone. I have no idea how they hunt, and a PB will fail if some things are done wrong. So, I play it safe, and steer new guys away from them.
I also don't recommend anybody hunt elk with a 30-30 either. I know it works from experience, but I don't know how someone else will hunt with it.
That doesn't mean that the PB and 30-30 won't work. I just don't recommend them.
You went to all that trouble to look up those posts? You could have just asked me.
I also don't recommend anybody hunt elk with a 30-30 either. I know it works from experience, but I don't know how someone else will hunt with it.
That doesn't mean that the PB and 30-30 won't work. I just don't recommend them.
You went to all that trouble to look up those posts? You could have just asked me.
And the worst part - I agree with both points (not that the points you made are the worst part) - but the fact that I agree with you on these two statements and I would like to think that I am a 5% ter)
And finally even though whole thing got blown up - It really might provide some folks some valid information provided they would/will take the time to read through the whole thing.
So NOW! the real important thing... When do you get to start hunting and what are the temperatures there? Believe it or not::: Some areas of Idaho are now open for elk hunting today! The temperature yesterday was 100* and expected to stay in that area for the foreseeable future! Think I will wait awhile!
Last edited by sabotloader; 08-01-2015 at 07:56 AM.
08-01-2015, 07:54 AM
#110
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,695
My own well known opinion of Powerjunks is not to recommend them to ANY hunter.
Now, lets look at a couple of things here. After dressing out hundreds of whitetail over many years I feel I know the anatomy of a whitetail fairly well. Looking at those pics you posted Pete, the entry of that bullet was most definitely NOT "through" the shoulder. Behind the shoulder maybe catching a TINY bit of cartilage at a steep quartering towards MAYBE but for that bullet to enter the rib cage where it did, a deer would have had to dislocate it's shoulder back by several inches. Also, in that first pick, the entry wound with the coin beside it, that right there shows a bullet FAILURE in itself. To create a wound that large in the hide on entry meant violent expansion upon contact of the HIDE. That sir is the pure definition of failure. Had that bullet even touched the shoulder that deer would have been in another county with a severely blown out shoulder and probably dying from an infection or predators.
Did the deer die? Yep by pure luck because it was most certainly a bullet failure. One of thousands reported by hunters using powerjunks every year.
Now, lets look at a couple of things here. After dressing out hundreds of whitetail over many years I feel I know the anatomy of a whitetail fairly well. Looking at those pics you posted Pete, the entry of that bullet was most definitely NOT "through" the shoulder. Behind the shoulder maybe catching a TINY bit of cartilage at a steep quartering towards MAYBE but for that bullet to enter the rib cage where it did, a deer would have had to dislocate it's shoulder back by several inches. Also, in that first pick, the entry wound with the coin beside it, that right there shows a bullet FAILURE in itself. To create a wound that large in the hide on entry meant violent expansion upon contact of the HIDE. That sir is the pure definition of failure. Had that bullet even touched the shoulder that deer would have been in another county with a severely blown out shoulder and probably dying from an infection or predators.
Did the deer die? Yep by pure luck because it was most certainly a bullet failure. One of thousands reported by hunters using powerjunks every year.